Tell me about BBE Sonic Maximizers

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Spaceboy

Spaceboy

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What are your opinions on BBE Sonic Maximizers? I've heard that they can be used to 'tame' your low-end and remove some of the grit from an amplifier by correcting phase issues, but I can't find one locally to play around with. I've been going through equalizers and different settings trying to get better bass response from my 7-string Ibanez RG and Ampeg VH140C, and can't seem to get the sound I need, and since Suffocation used the Sonic Maximizers through this same amplifier back in the '90s, it could be something to look into. There doesn't seem to be many moderate opinions on these from what I've read on other forums, people either think they're essential, or belong in the bottom of a trash can.
 
If you're serious about tone, burn any BBE unit you come across.
 
On second thought, burning it won't suffice. Nuke it.
 
thegame":mmo41072 said:
If you're serious about tone, burn any BBE unit you come across.

I hear the secret to the Natas is two BBE circuits built in, could just be rumor? :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:
 
ttosh":1txprofo said:
thegame":1txprofo said:
If you're serious about tone, burn any BBE unit you come across.

I hear the secret to the Natas is two BBE circuits built in, could just be rumor? :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:
And a metalzone :lol: :LOL:
 
I've heard it sound good and bad, really depends on the amp and how you use (abuse) it.
 
ttosh":29t6flwt said:
thegame":29t6flwt said:
If you're serious about tone, burn any BBE unit you come across.

I hear the secret to the Natas is two BBE circuits built in, could just be rumor? :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:

No secret. The circuit is tweaked to give a 6.66 db boost at 6.66 khz.

P.S. Any future Natas purchasers automatically void their warranties if they plug a BBE into it :D
 
Destroys your tone and seriously f's with your phase.

sounds: "sterile", "lifeless", non "bloom-tastic"...
 
I use a Sonic Stomp in the loop of my 5150III and love it. It's always on and is a great tool. I use different cabinets at various practice spaces and gigs. Some cabs are too bright, not enough low end, low end too loose/tight, etc. (Not too mention the various room sounds). This thing has two knobs that helps me quickly compensate for all these factors quite well and makes dialing in an amp with 3 separate EQ's very fast and easy on the fly. It does nothing to my core tone.
 
You use a 5150 right? Basically it does little more than what your resonance and presence knobs already do.
 
JakeAC5253":29hxg23n said:
You use a 5150 right? Basically it does little more than what your resonance and presence knobs already do.

Word........I totally agree (as there are no resonance controls on my EVH like the Peavey, thats why I use it). However, that "little more" is a bit more punch, but not worth it just for that.
 
nevusofota":nrwixhkl said:
It does nothing to my core tone.

The BBE is a love or hate device. you love or hate it.

IMO it is either your ear perceives it as a "swiss army knife of clarity and tight bass" or your ear perceives it as a device that " shifts phase, and seems to suck the life out of the core midrange that guitar lives in".

In the end what you like is all that matters BUT good tones dont happen with maximizers.

here are some resources:


MARK HAMMER
"You have two ears, and both of them are designed to receive all frequencies. That frequency content comes from many simultaneous sources, and since few sound sources in the real world produce ONLY pure tones without harmonics, your brain has the unenviable (and constant) task of sorting the harmonics into the ones that (likely) came along with this pure tone, that pure tone, and that sort of modulated tone. Imagine you had an immense crowd photo (billboard sized) of people without any facial features, and had a second pile of little photos of faces (eyes, brows, noses and mouths), and you had to sort the faces and allocate them to the empty space they went with. That's pretty much what your brain has to do with harmonic content. In some respects, your brain can sort these harmonics into different piles based on directionality (i.e., if it came from that direction then it goes with the other sounds coming from that direction), but often the principal rule of thumb it has to work with is the relative simultaneity of harmonics and fundamentals.

And therein lies the problem. Not only do sound waves move through the air differently, but tweeters and woofers accelerate differently, may be located in a staggered manner from the listener. Even well before the speaker, different aspects of the signal path may cause "group delay", which is a sort of staggering of broad ranges of frequency content due to an assortment of factors, including capacitors in the signal path (this is why audiophiles prefer not to have caps in series with the signal).

Okay, lets take that little pile of faces and snip them up so that you cut diagonally across, splitting the mouth, nose and eyes in ways that make it even more difficult to pair them up together and figure out what face-space they go to. That's what group delay does. As a result it makes for exceedingly hard work for the brain when there are multiple sound sources, as in a band or orchestra, or something like a %^&*tail party scene in a film soundtrack. All that harmonic content flying past you has to be appropriately sorted and assigned, and that's a phenomenal amount of mental work to be done.

Boy it would help a lot if there were some way to overcome at least some of that cumulative group delay. Enter Sonic Maximizer and "the BBE process". The general basis of the process is to "correct" the phase relationships between fundamentals and harmonics, such that the fundamentals seem more obviously associated with those harmonics, and the resulting sound more crisply defined.

I can't say much with authority about the inner workings of the process, except that it is something you should think of as a more complex and targeted phase shifter. Will it provide improvement in all cases? Given the problem that it tries to be a solution for, no. It will prove to be more satisfying when there are multiple concurrent sounds, and when those sounds tend to have more harmonic content. Again, with more work for the brain to do in sorting harmonics and fundamentals, whatever makes that workload lighter will prove satisfying aurally. Can or does such a unit "fix" the problem? Well, since you can't know up front what the desired amount of "therapeutic stagger" needs to be in any given band that will restore coherence to the entire mixed signal, you might probably expect more success when applying it on an individual basis to individual instruments, as opposed to attempting to find a single stagger that works equally for all the signal sources being mixed to the PA. That's not to say you can't use it on mixed signals and expect any improvement. Rather, there is individually-tailored improvement and group-compromise improvement."

PAUL COCHRANE
"The process takes the signal and splits it into low/mid/hi freq ranges. The lows are then delayed by several ms. the mids are also delayed, but not as much as the lows. Then a slight compression is added to the highs which are not delayed. Some of the units also have an added bass boost control. It's based on the theory of time alignment used in audio systems. There's a couple of different thoughts on this. The fundemental tone comes first, and then the harmonics show up. By delaying the fundemental some you are lining it up in time with the harmonics. The other thought comes into play with speaker res. The speaker can react "quicker" around it res freq, so by delaying the fundementals you are trying to make the speaker react the same in time for all freqs."
 
I had one back in the late 80s trying to clone Mr. Bratta's tones. It was cool back then, but I eventually could not stand them. I really do feel it does nothing for tone. I would believe it is fair to say some of the best tones out there have no BBE.
 
They are shit. Don't fall for their hype.

They are so crap for guitar, that Rig-Talk even made me re-login just now when I replied about them, and deleted my post.

If you want to "excite" your guitar tone, learn to play and practice, and use an EQ pedal and/or adjust the presence or resonance on your amp.
 
moltenmetalburn":ej7b7wq4 said:
In the end what you like is all that matters BUT good tones dont happen with maximizers.

I don't want to put words in your mouth (and please excuse me if I do) but I think you meant to say maximizers don't make good tone. I have heard great tones with players who use maximizers.

If you don't have a good solid tone to start with than maximizers aren't going to make it better.

I get compliments on a regular basis from guitar players of other bands after sound checks, most can't believe the tone is coming from the 5150III.
 
At first when using them, it appears to sound good, and will sound good to newcomers. But after a while you'll notice that a huge chunk of the raw tone is missing. Or you probably won't notice it until taking the BBE out of the signal chain.
 
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