Torpedo Live Frustration: Please help ...

[mattyf_nyc]

I have my Torpedo Live for a month now. I run a Fender Hotrod Deluxe into it from the 8ohm speaker output. I use the clean channel of the amp because it has ridiculous headroom and plays very well with pedals. I am one with this amp and have been using it for years with this signal chain ...

Guitar (humbuckers. Gibson 498T)->Boss TU3->ToneBone Hot British 12AX7 Overdrive->Morley Little Aligator Optical Volume Pedal->Hotrod Deluxe

... plain, simple, and sounds great. Nice and even. Unfortunately, this all goes to hell when I unplug the speaker and send the signal to the Torpedo Live. Every single preset delivers an overwhelming bass thump no matter what, unless I EQ all the character out of my tone. I have the power amp sim turned off. I have the exact same problem with the Torpedo Wall Of Sound plugin. By the time I get rid of the blasting thump, my tone is thin and crappy. I run the Torpedo's line out into a Zoom R24, then into Reaper. I tend to monitor with Shure 440 studio headphones, and a pair of Edirol (by Roland) powered monitors. Both the headphones and the monitors are monitoring the Zoom R24 which is the audio interface. The headphones have a LOT less thump, and they sound nice and even. So, do I have lousy monitors? Crappy headphones? I would appreciate whatever guidance that is offered. I could really use a mentor.

Peace,
M

 

[djd100]

A Fender in a 1 X 12 open back cab needs a lot of bottom to sound good, so this is expected behavior with a Hot Rod Deluxe which is voiced for it's cab and speaker.

Forget about the factory presets, as there's no way a factory preset can be perfect for every amp so they're just examples.

a) Pick a cab (Jensen in a open back cab to start etc), and a mic (a brighter mic or a mic with limited low end in your case, maybe give the Sennheiser 421 a shot first, but certainly listen to all your options etc?).

b) Move it around while listening (try keeping it close to the center, and backing it up a bit).

c) When you're close finish with EQ (consider the Tonebone's EQ, the amp's tonestack/bright cap, and the Two Notes EQ).

Good luck!

 

[cpiquette]

I too recently started working with the torpedo. It certainly took some time to dial in the sound that I was looking for. I actually wouldn't say I am 100% there with my bogner, but my ac30 sounds great! Anyways, I would ultimately suggest stripping your rig down to just your amp and get it to sound good there on its own. I also would note that I am very in tune to the sound of my amp, as I have played it exclusively for the better past of the last 10 years, and I had to drop all preconceived notions of the way I run my settings. Everything had to be tweaked. I'm fairly confident that it does sound better as a result. Don't get discouraged and give up. There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[djd100]

Do try the...

BoGreen: "A Two Notes virtual cabinet for your Torpedo Wall of Sound plug-in. Inspired by Bogner® 4x12 Greenbacks G12M25 Reissue en 16ohms".

http://store.two-notes.com/index.php?id ... &id_lang=2

This is one of the best vintage oriented 4 X 12's IMO!

Brit 1935: "A Two Notes virtual cabinet for your Torpedo Wall of Sound plug-in. Inspired by Marshall® 4x12" is excellent too...

http://store.two-notes.com/index.php?id ... &id_lang=2

This one is great too.

I too recently started working with the torpedo. It certainly took some time to dial in the sound that I was looking for. I actually wouldn't say I am 100% there with my bogner, but my ac30 sounds great! Anyways, I would ultimately suggest stripping your rig down to just your amp and get it to sound good there on its own. I also would note that I am very in tune to the sound of my amp, as I have played it exclusively for the better past of the last 10 years, and I had to drop all preconceived notions of the way I run my settings. Everything had to be tweaked. I'm fairly confident that it does sound better as a result. Don't get discouraged and give up. There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[cpiquette]

Ya know, I sampled all the extra cabs thru laboutique and I ended up buying the goldfinger 2x12. My shiva is a closed back 1x12 combo, so the 4x12 route didn't sound as natural to me. Currently I have been using the blonde 65 (I think that's the name of the cab...) not sure how I ended up there, but it's working out decently for now. I will revisit the BoGreen cab you're talking about. I also had a short exchange with Pete thorn, and he highly recommended the ownhammer stuff. I am curious.

 

[mattyf_nyc]

Thank you all for your responses. Ill give these suggestions s try and see what happens. I have found that l get generally better sound using the physical Torpedo as opposed to the Wall of Sound plugin. My latest hardware preset for the HRD is Brit 30th cab with the Sennheiser 421 (I'm partial to Sennheiser when I use real mics), with the EQ turned on and cutting 120hz by 10db. Sounds better than what I was complaining about. I will try it with an open back cabinet right after I install new studio monitors on Monday. I have cheap, old Editol Ma15Ds that are terribly inaccurate, and have contributed to my sound issues. What do you folks monitor with?

 

[danilive]

Soon I got a Fender deluxe reverb, and all experience in this type of amplifiers (together with torpedo Live) I will help.
I would like to have sound samples, to see how your Hot Rod rings with Torpedo Live.
It's posible?

Greetings!

 

[Raven]

Thank you all for your responses. Ill give these suggestions s try and see what happens. I have found that l get generally better sound using the physical Torpedo as opposed to the Wall of Sound plugin. My latest hardware preset for the HRD is Brit 30th cab with the Sennheiser 421 (I'm partial to Sennheiser when I use real mics), with the EQ turned on and cutting 120hz by 10db. Sounds better than what I was complaining about. I will try it with an open back cabinet right after I install new studio monitors on Monday. I have cheap, old Editol Ma15Ds that are terribly inaccurate, and have contributed to my sound issues. What do you folks monitor with?

Closed back cabinets produce a heap more bottom end than open back cabinets; therefore, you will get a very different sound than your used to with your open back combo if using a closed back IR. if you move to an open back IR you'll likely be happier off the bat.

Monitor-wise, I've always found that cheaper monitors often give out a boomy, bottom heavy sound as the manufacturers tend to scrimp on the tweeters (the part that deals with the high end). If you go with something along the lines of the Adam A7X then you should be happy. These are mid-range monitors that won't break the bank but have a very detailed & present high-end which will allow you to hear the full range of your sound with clarity. I'd imagine it will be like taking a blanket off your sound after the Edirols.

 

[mattyf_nyc]

Thank you all for your responses. Ill give these suggestions s try and see what happens. I have found that l get generally better sound using the physical Torpedo as opposed to the Wall of Sound plugin. My latest hardware preset for the HRD is Brit 30th cab with the Sennheiser 421 (I'm partial to Sennheiser when I use real mics), with the EQ turned on and cutting 120hz by 10db. Sounds better than what I was complaining about. I will try it with an open back cabinet right after I install new studio monitors on Monday. I have cheap, old Editol Ma15Ds that are terribly inaccurate, and have contributed to my sound issues. What do you folks monitor with?

Closed back cabinets produce a heap more bottom end than open back cabinets; therefore, you will get a very different sound than your used to with your open back combo if using a closed back IR. if you move to an open back IR you'll likely be happier off the bat.

Monitor-wise, I've always found that cheaper monitors often give out a boomy, bottom heavy sound as the manufacturers tend to scrimp on the tweeters (the part that deals with the high end). If you go with something along the lines of the Adam A7X then you should be happy. These are mid-range monitors that won't break the bank but have a very detailed & present high-end which will allow you to hear the full range of your sound with clarity. I'd imagine it will be like taking a blanket off your sound after the Edirols.

I did some testing with open back cabinets. There is a difference there that necessitates moving the mic around and dialing out some fizz. I tried the BritFrizz cabinet and it had a similar effect.

Unfortunately, a pair of Adam AX7s would break my bank, and then set it on fire (LOL). I borrowed a pair of Mackie MR6MK3s that made it it obvious that the Edirols are horrible. The price and the physical size is right (my studio is in my microscopic apartment) so UPS will drop off a pair to me on Monday. Using the borrowed MR6s was the first time my headphones and my monitors agreed with each other.

 

[Raven]

Thank you all for your responses. Ill give these suggestions s try and see what happens. I have found that l get generally better sound using the physical Torpedo as opposed to the Wall of Sound plugin. My latest hardware preset for the HRD is Brit 30th cab with the Sennheiser 421 (I'm partial to Sennheiser when I use real mics), with the EQ turned on and cutting 120hz by 10db. Sounds better than what I was complaining about. I will try it with an open back cabinet right after I install new studio monitors on Monday. I have cheap, old Editol Ma15Ds that are terribly inaccurate, and have contributed to my sound issues. What do you folks monitor with?

Closed back cabinets produce a heap more bottom end than open back cabinets; therefore, you will get a very different sound than your used to with your open back combo if using a closed back IR. if you move to an open back IR you'll likely be happier off the bat.

Monitor-wise, I've always found that cheaper monitors often give out a boomy, bottom heavy sound as the manufacturers tend to scrimp on the tweeters (the part that deals with the high end). If you go with something along the lines of the Adam A7X then you should be happy. These are mid-range monitors that won't break the bank but have a very detailed & present high-end which will allow you to hear the full range of your sound with clarity. I'd imagine it will be like taking a blanket off your sound after the Edirols.

I did some testing with open back cabinets. There is a difference there that necessitates moving the mic around and dialing out some fizz. I tried the BritFrizz cabinet and it had a similar effect.

Unfortunately, a pair of Adam AX7s would break my bank, and then set it on fire (LOL). I borrowed a pair of Mackie MR6MK3s that made it it obvious that the Edirols are horrible. The price and the physical size is right (my studio is in my microscopic apartment) so UPS will drop off a pair to me on Monday. Using the borrowed MR6s was the first time my headphones and my monitors agreed with each other.

Yeh, music gear is expensive stuff for sure, I hope the Mackie's do the trick for you though.

You may want to treat the open back cabinets differently than you did the closed backs, it's best to experiment with different mics/placement etc. until you get a feel for what you like (it's really no different in a Torpedo than it would be with real mics in a studio). Here's a tip for you: you'll often find you'll get a fuller, more balanced sound if you multi-mic, as the different microphones will accentuate different frequencies coming from your amp/speaker cabinet choice you see. You'll likely find that something like a dynamic mic on it's own will sound harsh & bright, if you then mix in a ribbon mic for example, it will add in a warmth & fullness that will compliment the bite & definition provided by the dynamic mic that you're using. My personal opinion is that you will only need to use the post EQ if you've not quite got things right at the micing stage, it really is worth experimenting until you find your preference & learn to understand how subtle differences in placement etc. can affect things. Most of all though, enjoy the process!

 

[mattyf_nyc]

Last night, I did another test recording where I captured the Torpedo and a raw signal from the Preamp Out of the HotRod Deluxe onto two individual tracks. I then applied the WOS plugin to the raw preamp signal with power amp sim and a U87 for room sound. Interesting outcome.

 

[djd100]

You'll need to compensate for phase/latency doing that, so be sure to time align both tracks (that's assuming your DAW does delay compensation for the plugin etc).

Last night, I did another test recording where I captured the Torpedo and a raw signal from the Preamp Out of the HotRod Deluxe onto two individual tracks. I then applied the WOS plugin to the raw preamp signal with power amp sim and a U87 for room sound. Interesting outcome.

 

[mattyf_nyc]

You'll need to compensate for phase/latency doing that, so be sure to time align both tracks (that's assuming your DAW does delay compensation for the plugin etc).

I didn't even know DAWs could do that. I use Reaper and have no clue if it does that or not. Outside of researching the question, what symptoms should I hear to indicate that I have to align the tracks?

M

 

[djd100]

I'm sure there's some stuff here that will help you...

https://www.google.com/search?q=time+al ... 8&oe=utf-8

You'll need to compensate for phase/latency doing that, so be sure to time align both tracks (that's assuming your DAW does delay compensation for the plugin etc).

I didn't even know DAWs could do that. I use Reaper and have no clue if it does that or not. Outside of researching the question, what symptoms should I hear to indicate that I have to align the tracks?

M

 

[mattyf_nyc]

The issues have apparently been solved. A combination of EQ work (120hz) and decent monitors. Thanks to all for your support. The down side is now aI have to re-record an entire album.

Peace,
M

 

[djd100]

Great news!

Hopefully you also recorded a guitar DI track so you can just "Re-Amp" everything.

If you did great, and if you didn't be sure to in the future.

The issues have apparently been solved. A combination of EQ work (120hz) and decent monitors. Thanks to all for your support. The down side is now aI have to re-record an entire album.

Peace,
M