Using less than 1 watt on Rebel 30?

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gregrjones

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I'm finding even at the 1 watt setting, I'm not hearing power tube distortion at reasonable volume levels (under 90 DB).

Typically, when I play even in a band setting, we shoot for a house volume somewhere in the 90 DB range.

That means that ideally, my stage volume should be in the 80 DB range (if not less) because the rule is that it takes a 10 DB difference between FOH levels and stage levels if you want the stage volume masked to the audience's ears.

Therefore, IF I want power tube saturation, I'm wondering about the possibility of running my Rebel 30 at say 1/2 a watt. Is there a mod that I could make to the amp's multiwatt selector to allow for this?

Secondly, does anyone know where a chart is (my Googles are coming up empty) that would list how many watts are needed for a tube amp to achieve x amount of DBs?

I'd like to know how many watts are even needed to achieve, say 85 dbs to get power tube saturation...
 
Wouldn't the type of speaker have an impact too? The same amount of power applied to a greenback isn't as loud as it is on a Vintage 30 because of the speaker design, as I understand it.
 
I should have specified that I'm using the combo, so the speaker is stock.
 
gregrjones":1jdcav4v said:
I'm finding even at the 1 watt setting, I'm not hearing power tube distortion at reasonable volume levels (under 90 DB).

Typically, when I play even in a band setting, we shoot for a house volume somewhere in the 90 DB range.

That means that ideally, my stage volume should be in the 80 DB range (if not less) because the rule is that it takes a 10 DB difference between FOH levels and stage levels if you want the stage volume masked to the audience's ears.

Therefore, IF I want power tube saturation, I'm wondering about the possibility of running my Rebel 30 at say 1/2 a watt. Is there a mod that I could make to the amp's multiwatt selector to allow for this?

Secondly, does anyone know where a chart is (my Googles are coming up empty) that would list how many watts are needed for a tube amp to achieve x amount of DBs?

I'd like to know how many watts are even needed to achieve, say 85 dbs to get power tube saturation...
Click to expand...

Are you trying to "saturate" channel 1 or 2?
If your trying to saturate channel 2, then you can use the gain knob as a volume. Work the 2 together to set your distortion and volume levels. Also, turn the tube blend knob all the way to the 6V6 side, this will decrease your volume even a little more.
If your trying to saturate channel 1 at low volume, then you probably will not get what you want out of the Rebel 30.
 
Great suggestion Steedee.

Now, I'd still like to know where a chart is (my Googles are coming up empty) that would list how many watts are needed for a tube amp to achieve x amount of DBs?

For instance, if I want to achieve 85 dBs with power tube saturation, how many watts do I need?
 
gregrjones":yflw5oae said:
Great suggestion Steedee.

Now, I'd still like to know where a chart is (my Googles are coming up empty) that would list how many watts are needed for a tube amp to achieve x amount of DBs?

For instance, if I want to achieve 85 dBs with power tube saturation, how many watts do I need?
Click to expand...

I dont think your gonna find that info so easy to nail down....
There's too many variables... like speaker selection, room acoustics, pick attack, tube model, etc.. that will effect what your describing.
What your looking for is like trying to explain the meaning of life. :D
 
gregrjones":1asjayrq said:
For instance, if I want to achieve 85 dBs with power tube saturation, how many watts do I need?
Click to expand...

There are many variables besides just the watts that determine the volume level. Speakers vary in sensitivity, the cabinet affects the volume, the room acoustics have a big impact, and of course 30 watts from one amp model may have a completely different output level from a different 30 watt amp model. I know that when I set my Rebel 30 to 1 watt, the perceived volume level sounds two or three times louder than that of my 5 watt Valve Junior when running through the same cabinet.

With the Rebel 30, I don't hear a substantial difference in volume between 1 watt and 30 watts. All I notice is that at 1 watt, the volume decreases slightly and the amp breaks up earlier. In my band, we mic the amps and try to keep the stage volume at a reasonable level. I've done a few things to tame the volume on my R30.

1) Use lower efficiency speakers. I have a pair of 25W Scumback M75s in an Avatar 2x12 box. The output of the M75s is about 3dB less than the Egnater Elite 80 (or a Vintage 30)

2) I use an attenuator to lower the power being delivered to the speakers. I did some research and ended up buying a Dr.Z Air Brake. This model was praised for its tranparency and IMO is a wonderful device. I normally set it on "3" when using a Les Paul, which is about a 7 dB attenuation. My Strat is not as loud as the Les Paul, so when I switch to it, I bump the Air Brake up to "2" on the dial, which is a 5 dB attenuation. This Air Brake is the only attenuator that I've ever tried, but I'm 100% satisfied with it.

3) I set a baffle that is about a foot tall about out in front of my speaker cabinet. This greatly reduces the beaming effect and keeps me from pissing off the soundman (and audience) for being too loud, yet I still have a decent volume level from where I'm standing.
 
gregrjones":2e7tdwjq said:
I'm finding even at the 1 watt setting, I'm not hearing power tube distortion at reasonable volume levels (under 90 DB).

Typically, when I play even in a band setting, we shoot for a house volume somewhere in the 90 DB range.

That means that ideally, my stage volume should be in the 80 DB range (if not less) because the rule is that it takes a 10 DB difference between FOH levels and stage levels if you want the stage volume masked to the audience's ears.

Therefore, IF I want power tube saturation, I'm wondering about the possibility of running my Rebel 30 at say 1/2 a watt. Is there a mod that I could make to the amp's multiwatt selector to allow for this?

Secondly, does anyone know where a chart is (my Googles are coming up empty) that would list how many watts are needed for a tube amp to achieve x amount of DBs?

I'd like to know how many watts are even needed to achieve, say 85 dbs to get power tube saturation...
Click to expand...
You could start by looking at Egnater's site.Read the "tech talk" about volume & power by Bruce Egnater.Here is a quote :
A typical guitar speaker will produce about 95 to 100dB at 1 meter (about 3.3ft) with 1 watt of input power. Now put 2 or 4 of that same speaker in a cabinet and the output is even higher.
Click to expand...
 
gregrjones":3svmr8wu said:
According to amptone.com (http://www.amptone.com/#lowwattamps), most guitarists play at 10 mW ( 1/100th of a watt) most of the time. I assume that they say this because most guitarist's playing time is in the bedroom.
Click to expand...
Indeed.But,remember they're talking about "full distortion" here and 1/10 W of full tube distortion is loud.But if you play "clean" or need to play "clean",it's very different...Suddenly,20W is not even enough to give you a real clean sound at a respectable volume ! :confused:
 
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