VHT 2/90/2 vs. Mesa Strategy 400

[fearhk213]

Who here has compared these two power amps? What's differences you found between them and why would you pick one over the other? Do you find one better suited to a particular application than the other?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[fearhk213]

I should've added I plan to use it for slaving and running my Axe-Fx Ultra.

 

[thegame]

My experience is limited to a VHT 2150 vs. Strategy 400.

VHT has a little more character, or colours the sound a bit more. I would expect the 2/90/2 to be a 'jr' version of the 2150, similar in some ways.

Mesa is flatter, more neutral yet far DEEPER, thumpier sounding.

Tough call. The VHT may make the Axe-FX react a little more like a head, since it has more character. The Mesa may highlight the differences between the Axe's various tones a little more due to its transparency.

 

[J.B.]

My experience is limited to a VHT 2150 vs. Strategy 400.

VHT has a little more character, or colours the sound a bit more. I would expect the 2/90/2 to be a 'jr' version of the 2150, similar in some ways.

Mesa is flatter, more neutral yet far DEEPER, thumpier sounding.

Tough call. The VHT may make the Axe-FX react a little more like a head, since it has more character. The Mesa may highlight the differences between the Axe's various tones a little more due to its transparency.

Wow, I would have guessed just the opposite. Very interesting.

 

[thegame]

My experience is limited to a VHT 2150 vs. Strategy 400.

VHT has a little more character, or colours the sound a bit more. I would expect the 2/90/2 to be a 'jr' version of the 2150, similar in some ways.

Mesa is flatter, more neutral yet far DEEPER, thumpier sounding.

Tough call. The VHT may make the Axe-FX react a little more like a head, since it has more character. The Mesa may highlight the differences between the Axe's various tones a little more due to its transparency.

Wow, I would have guessed just the opposite. Very interesting.

Ya I know. There's more to it that this, but the VHT has presence, depth, voicing switches/controls. My Mesa has nothing but a volume control and is designed to have a flat freq. response.

 

[stephen sawall]

I like the low end of the Mesa better.
Both as you know are good amps.

 

[fearhk213]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I would have thought the VHT was the more neutral one too. Which is the bigger & tighter of the two? Is the thumpier low end of the Mesa tight? When I think Mesa I think loose low end like a Recto, but that's not what I want from a power amp.

 

[Szar]

Lemme put it this way. Mesa Strategy 400/500 + Marshall JMP = eargasm...

 

[thegame]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I would have thought the VHT was the more neutral one too. Which is the bigger & tighter of the two? Is the thumpier low end of the Mesa tight? When I think Mesa I think loose low end like a Recto, but that's not what I want from a power amp.

The VHT ones are still somewhat neutral, just not as much as the Mesas. This does not apply to any Mesa made past the Strategy 500 (1990-1991 or so). All models after that are on the looser, spongy side. The early stuff, Strategy 400, 500, 400 monoblock, etc are extremely tight and not Recto like AT ALL, thankfully

Bigger = Mesa for sure
Tighter = maybe VHT 2150 over the Mesa 400. If so, not by much. 2150 is the tightest VHT of all, so take that into consideration

Thumpy low end of the Mesa 400 is SUPER tight. In a way its like plugging into a bass rig because some of the 400 design was descended from one of their 80's bass amps.

 

[eternal_idol]

damn all these strategy threads the GAS is killiing me!!!

 

[RockNRollBabyHead]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

 

[fearhk213]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

You say "Mesa amps tend to..." a couple of times so you're kind of making some generalizing statements. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm asking about a specific model so I just want to clarify. Have you experienced the traits you mentioned with the Strategy 400?

 

[RockNRollBabyHead]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

You say "Mesa amps tend to..." a couple of times so you're kind of making some generalizing statements. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm asking about a specific model so I just want to clarify. Have you experienced the traits you mentioned with the Strategy 400?

I am referring to the strategy series. I have a 400, 295, 50/50. I also have 2/90/2's 2/50/2 2150 and a one off VHT.
If you want a super tight amp with EL34's for the mid growl, then there is the 2/50/2 also.
I don't own an AxeFX(though I have one on loan right now), I think clarity is what it is all about. The 2/90/2 is the best bet. The Mesa will ad a mesa flavor, whereas the VHT will be a lot more neutral and transparent, and overall tighter.
The VHT will be bigger sounding and the mesa will be boomier sounding.
RRBH

 

[fearhk213]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

You say "Mesa amps tend to..." a couple of times so you're kind of making some generalizing statements. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm asking about a specific model so I just want to clarify. Have you experienced the traits you mentioned with the Strategy 400?

I am referring to the strategy series. I have a 400, 295, 50/50. I also have 2/90/2's 2/50/2 2150 and a one off VHT.
If you want a super tight amp with EL34's for the mid growl, then there is the 2/50/2 also.
I don't own an AxeFX(though I have one on loan right now), I think clarity is what it is all about. The 2/90/2 is the best bet. The Mesa will ad a mesa flavor, whereas the VHT will be a lot more neutral and transparent, and overall tighter.
The VHT will be bigger sounding and the mesa will be boomier sounding.
RRBH

Thanks for the clarification and the input
How much difference do find between the 2/90/2 and the 2150? Is it enough to warrant the extra size and weight if that's a concern?

 

[RockNRollBabyHead]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

You say "Mesa amps tend to..." a couple of times so you're kind of making some generalizing statements. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm asking about a specific model so I just want to clarify. Have you experienced the traits you mentioned with the Strategy 400?

I am referring to the strategy series. I have a 400, 295, 50/50. I also have 2/90/2's 2/50/2 2150 and a one off VHT.
If you want a super tight amp with EL34's for the mid growl, then there is the 2/50/2 also.
I don't own an AxeFX(though I have one on loan right now), I think clarity is what it is all about. The 2/90/2 is the best bet. The Mesa will ad a mesa flavor, whereas the VHT will be a lot more neutral and transparent, and overall tighter.
The VHT will be bigger sounding and the mesa will be boomier sounding.
RRBH

Thanks for the clarification and the input
How much difference do find between the 2/90/2 and the 2150? Is it enough to warrant the extra size and weight if that's a concern?

Complete overkill to be honest. The 2/90/2 with the volumes about 11 O clock will make the hardest hitting drummer vanish in the mix
It is an extremely loud and clear amp that can actually cause pain

 

[EXPcustom]

The VHT2150 is the only VHT power amp that really impressed me. I never liked the sound of the other VHT stuff.

As for the MESA its my go to power amp and if I had to replace it I would either get a VHT2150 or another Strategy 400. They are both uber reliable and built like a brick poophouse.

Pics for GAS:

 

[jasonP]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

In my opinion after hearing a Strategy 500 and knowing that the 400 has more headroom and louder I don't think you could get the Mesa to breakup at any reasonable level (short of smoking your ear drums). I'm willing to bet that loudness/headroom that the 400 would eat the VHT's.

 

[thegame]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

In my opinion after hearing a Strategy 500 and knowing that the 400 has more headroom and louder I don't think you could get the Mesa to breakup at any reasonable level. I'm willing to bet that loudness/headroom that the 400 would eat the VHT's.

For the record I had a 1989 VHT 2150 w/GE6550s running at over 700 v plate voltage. Many say this first edition was the best.
Now I have a 1987 early model Strategy 400 loaded with Sylvania 6L6s and Tesla EL34s. No presence switches or knobs like later models. I'm not sure if later ones were different tonally, but whatever....

Both are incredible power amps. The only other offerings that I know of that could compete with these beasts are the Rivera Hammer power amp and the extremely rare Langner monoblock power amp.

Anyway, BOTH the 2150 and 400 do not break up, pretty much at all. The 400 is undeniably louder. Since both were designed to not break up, I don't think one has perceivably more headroom that the other. This is my experience with both amps running their intended tubes. I tried the cheap Chinese modern Mesa tubes in the 400 and headroom/clarity suffered.

Also the 400 is alot warmer/fatter while maintaining clarity than the 2150. Excessive treble/presence is not at issue. My 2150's presence control went from 'icepick' to 'more icepick'. I'd suspect later models got warmer sounding.

Lastly the 2150 is/was rated @ 105 w/channel. The 400 was 200 w/channel. Probably more like 150w/channel as Mesa likes to inflate their power ratings, but still, SIX 6L6s should be able to easily overpower a measly TWO KT88s.

 

[jasonP]

The VHT will have a lot more headroom, unlike the Mesa. You can get the Mesa to break up, and it is near impossible to make KT88's break up. The VHT will be a much tighter amp and not "mud" out like the Mesa amps tend to do. Mesa power amps also tend to have a treble or presence that can not be dialed out. The VHT has complete control of the bass response and tightness, treble/presence and voicing. The voicing buttons will shift the upper mids.
If you want to ad power amp breakup, then Mesa would be the choice. If you want absolute crystal clear sound, the VHT would be the right amp.
And comparatively, the VHT is a lot louder if you need it.
RRBH

You say "Mesa amps tend to..." a couple of times so you're kind of making some generalizing statements. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm asking about a specific model so I just want to clarify. Have you experienced the traits you mentioned with the Strategy 400?

I am referring to the strategy series. I have a 400, 295, 50/50. I also have 2/90/2's 2/50/2 2150 and a one off VHT.
If you want a super tight amp with EL34's for the mid growl, then there is the 2/50/2 also.
I don't own an AxeFX(though I have one on loan right now), I think clarity is what it is all about. The 2/90/2 is the best bet. The Mesa will ad a mesa flavor, whereas the VHT will be a lot more neutral and transparent, and overall tighter.
The VHT will be bigger sounding and the mesa will be boomier sounding.
RRBH

I had/have 395/500 and both never mudded out on the bottom end, granted the 395 is a little more smoother/darker and touch looser but still. How tight you want your amp before it starts to sound like a processed SS amp?
Both these amps are not overly bright or ice pick in the ears.