Wall of Sound and panning cabs...

[Hornacho]

Hmm, I posted this earlier and it seems to have disappeared so I'll try again...

I’m searching for that ever difficult to achieve… "amp in a room sound" despite the fact that I’m going all direct in my recording. I’m trying to get pro opinions on how to properly setup so that I can get a sound similar to Johan Segeborn’s clip below.

Notice the close mic’d guitar towards the Left and the “room sounds” to the right. This is the sound I’m trying to achieve. Johan uses 2 mics… one close up on the speaker and one room mic.

(video starts at about 28 seconds but the part at 1:30 is clearer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-5IaYOvmjQ

Here's my setup:

Cubase Channel 1 Track:

AMP (cab turned off) > Wall of Sound (one cab turned on only… Panned LEFT) > IR reverb with a very CLOSE mic’d/small room sound.


This is a STEREO track.


Cubase Channel 2 Track:

AMP (same amp as above with cab turned off) > Wall of Sound (same cab as above… Panned RIGHT) > IR reverb with more of a ROOM tone sound. This makes the amp sound like it’s more in a room. The reverb is real wet making it echo in the right channel more like in Johan’s video.


This also a STEREO track.

I then combine Track 1 and 2 to sound like the amp is in a real room. It does a good job of getting that sound in Johan’s video, but there are some variables that I’m still trying to figure out. And this is where it gets confusing to explain so I’ll do my best…


I’ll focus on Track 1 for now, but my questions are for both Track 1 and 2 ultimately.


On Track 1, I have the option in Wall of Sound to pan the cabinet all the way left, but I’m wondering… should I be keeping that cabinet panned Center or slightly left, and then panning hard left with my Cubase channel 1 track? Or should I be panning both Wall of Sound and the Cubase Track 1 left?



So in other words, I can pan left at 2 different points in the chain. Either in Wall of Sound or in the main track channel. Which would be the “proper” channel to pan in? Is there any “industry standard” trick for this?

Hopefully I’ve explained this so someone out there understands what I’m trying to get at. I know the easier thing would be to just slap a reverb IR onto Track 1 and call it a day. But that just doesn’t give the same “roomy” feeling like Johan’s video.

Thanks in advance for helping me achieve this sound!

 

[djd100]

Panning is totally subjective, so pan the two cabs as much as you desire with regards to the rest of the track. Do whatever you like as long as it sounds good with everything else (vocals, drums, bass etc).

You might use two room sims, one extra short on the close mic (maybe 250ms max if using a cardiod mic), and the other longer on the room mic, maybe 500 - 750 ms max. Buss both tracks to a Aux Track and add your post FX there (reverb and delays etc).

This is just one way to do it, there are unlimited ways you can go so do what sounds best to "you"...

 

[bluedog25]

Panning is totally subjective, so pan the two cabs as much as you desire with regards to the rest of the track. Do whatever you like as long as it sounds good with everything else (vocals, drums, bass etc).

You might use two room sims, one extra short on the close mic (maybe 250ms max if using a cardiod mic), and the other longer on the room mic, maybe 500 - 750 ms max. Buss both tracks to a Aux Track and add your post FX there (reverb and delays etc).

This is just one way to do it, there are unlimited ways you can go so do what sounds best to "you"...

What room sims do you recommend and like to use?

 

[Hornacho]

Thanks for your response, Journeyman! I fully agree with you that panning is subjective and I believe what you suggested is pretty close to what I do. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a pro tip on whether to pan in Wall of Sound or the Cubase track or both. I probably just need to experiment more and figure it out.

 

[djd100]

It's a subtle effect, and almost any decent room sim/short reverb will do, though I prefer Altiverb as it comes with a lot of good sounding famous recording space IR's, but again just about anything will work for room "air".

Panning is totally subjective, so pan the two cabs as much as you desire with regards to the rest of the track. Do whatever you like as long as it sounds good with everything else (vocals, drums, bass etc).

You might use two room sims, one extra short on the close mic (maybe 250ms max if using a cardiod mic), and the other longer on the room mic, maybe 500 - 750 ms max. Buss both tracks to a Aux Track and add your post FX there (reverb and delays etc).

This is just one way to do it, there are unlimited ways you can go so do what sounds best to "you"...

What room sims do you recommend and like to use?

 

[Hornacho]

Oops, sorry djd100 I called you Journeyman... I was looking in the wrong area for your name the other day. LOL!

I was experimenting again last night with trying to figure out whether to pan in WOS or the track itself or both. It seems panning in both does come up with different (sometimes weird) sounds.

 

[bluedog25]

Oops, sorry djd100 I called you Journeyman... I was looking in the wrong area for your name the other day. LOL!

I was experimenting again last night with trying to figure out whether to pan in WOS or the track itself or both. It seems panning in both does come up with different (sometimes weird) sounds.

I'm curious about this too.

 

[djd100]

Assuming you are using a stereo track in your DAW, it's usually best to leave the stereo tracked panned out 100%, and do whatever panning you need in the pluigin.

Conversely you could pan everything out 100% in the plugin and then use the DAW's pan controls if for instance you have better automation capabilities that way (depends on the DAW).

Be sure to check mono compatibility in either case as well, especially when using short stereo delays.

 

[bluedog25]

It's a subtle effect, and almost any decent room sim/short reverb will do, though I prefer Altiverb as it comes with a lot of good sounding famous recording space IR's, but again just about anything will work for room "air".

Panning is totally subjective, so pan the two cabs as much as you desire with regards to the rest of the track. Do whatever you like as long as it sounds good with everything else (vocals, drums, bass etc).

You might use two room sims, one extra short on the close mic (maybe 250ms max if using a cardiod mic), and the other longer on the room mic, maybe 500 - 750 ms max. Buss both tracks to a Aux Track and add your post FX there (reverb and delays etc).

This is just one way to do it, there are unlimited ways you can go so do what sounds best to "you"...

What room sims do you recommend and like to use?

Very cool Djd100. I just got altiverb from a friend. Can i ask how you use this for realistic room sounds? Do you use it as a bus, or just a direct plugin?
Any particular favorites you like in the program for basic studio rooms or other favorites in general? Seems pretty overwhelming where to start.

 

[djd100]

I use Altiverb on a Buss, and any of the short rooms will work great, so try a few and pick.

I'll also use separate Altiverb instances for long reverbs and rooms as well (via Buss).

Note that the Torpedo LIVE/CAB hardware now has a really nice room sim/reverb built in, so that's typically how I record my guitars and bass now (tube preamps through a Torpedo CAB to interface, along with a straight guitar/bass DI to two separate tracks).

I believe WOS and the Studio will be updated with the room sim/reverb going forward as well, not sure though?

Very cool Djd100. I just got altiverb from a friend. Can i ask how you use this for realistic room sounds? Do you use it as a bus, or just a direct plugin? Any particular favorites you like in the program for basic studio rooms or other favorites in general? Seems pretty overwhelming where to start.

 

[guillaume_pille]

I believe WOS and the Studio will be updated with the room sim/reverb going forward as well, not sure though?

That is correct.