What do I need to achieve a wet/dry set up?

[sixty-niner]

Hello all, I was watching a few youtube vids and wanted to know how one achieves a wet dry set up? I have used the search button and google but I have not found a list of items necessary. I want to use 1 amp head and my 2 4x12 cabs. The rest is a mystery for me. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be very appreciative.
thanks

 

[7 Stringer]

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174194&p=1951565#p1951565

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54258&hilit=Wet+dry+wet

There's a bunch more on different forums, Google explained it all to me some years back.



Chris

 

[Zachman]

Hello all, I was watching a few youtube vids and wanted to know how one achieves a wet dry set up? I have used the search button and google but I have not found a list of items necessary. I want to use 1 amp head and my 2 4x12 cabs. The rest is a mystery for me. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be very appreciative.
thanks

A Wet/Dry setup is a Dual mono setup. In other words; it's (2) rigs run simultaneously.

Your (1) amp and one cab would be the 'Dry' one 1/2 of the dual mono setup, and you'd need another amp for the 'Wet' side of your rig (which would be amplifying the FX- in mono), through another speaker cab being powered by the (2nd) amp.

IF you want to use 'Stereo' fx the 2nd amp will need to be a stereo power amp and use (2) cabs 1 for the Left, and 1 cab for the Right, OR you'd need (2) amp heads, each running it's own cab for the L/R fx-- in addition to your main (Dry) amp and cab.

 

[Racerxrated]

I have a pretty simple setup compared to some. Mesa Mark 2C+ combo...line out to Rocktron Intellifex.... Out of that into one side of a power amp(strategy 400)...out of power amp into 2 4x12s. My combo speaker is hooked up for load purpose and is my dry signal. I mostly do it for the pureness of the effects and the reamping thunder of the strategy 400. If I wanted a more pure wet/dry contrast I'd hook up my combo another 4x12 instead of using the combo speaker.

 

[sixty-niner]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

 

[Zachman]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Personally, I prefer the Mesa Simul 395, but experimentation is the only way to discover your own preferences to achieve 'your' target tone(s), as various amps will give various results.

 

[7 Stringer]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Any SS will do, stereo as you will eventually wanna go, or at least try, WDW. My basement rig uses a Crown power I had for my old PA, works great. Also your effects unit needs kill dry feature for best results, might have phase issues if not.

If one of your 4X12 is stereo, you can have a compact WDW, won't bas as wide and spacious as two separate cabs but still, you can use ping pong delays!!!!! Those are wicked.

There's really not a lot to it and can be done for relatively low costs.

Chris

 

[Racerxrated]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Personally, I prefer the Mesa Simul 395, but experimentation is the only way to discover your own preferences to achieve 'your' target tone(s), as various amps will give various results.

The Mesa 290, 295, 395, and Strategy series are well thought of, as are the VHT power amps as far as tube power amps go. Used these can run 500-1k. Many others out there but I narrowed my search to these when I was interested in a wet/dry rig. Solid state I'm not sure. I wanted a tube rig. The Strategy takes 12 power tubes lol..completely unnecessary but fun!

 

[Zachman]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Personally, I prefer the Mesa Simul 395, but experimentation is the only way to discover your own preferences to achieve 'your' target tone(s), as various amps will give various results.

The Mesa 290, 295, 395, and Strategy series are well thought of, as are the VHT power amps as far as tube power amps go. Used these can run 500-1k. Many others out there but I narrowed my search to these when I was interested in a wet/dry rig. Solid state I'm not sure. I wanted a tube rig. The Strategy takes 12 power tubes lol..completely unnecessary but fun!

Absolutely correct.

I have used a variety of various power amps over the years (Rocktron Velocity 100-- it worked, but I hated it in comparison to the Boogie395), Marshall 9000, Mesa Strategy 295/400/Simul 2:Ninety, Crown-- Actually sounded really good, I still have it, VHT 2150, VHT Two/Fifty/Two, etc...)

The costs of the gear which achieves KILLER tone are potentially the cause of major trauma to the budget. I know you can relate.

 

[Racerxrated]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Personally, I prefer the Mesa Simul 395, but experimentation is the only way to discover your own preferences to achieve 'your' target tone(s), as various amps will give various results.

The Mesa 290, 295, 395, and Strategy series are well thought of, as are the VHT power amps as far as tube power amps go. Used these can run 500-1k. Many others out there but I narrowed my search to these when I was interested in a wet/dry rig. Solid state I'm not sure. I wanted a tube rig. The Strategy takes 12 power tubes lol..completely unnecessary but fun!

Absolutely correct.

I have used a variety of various power amps over the years (Rocktron Velocity 100-- it worked, but I hated it in comparison to the Boogie395), Marshall 9000, Mesa Strategy 295/400/Simul 2:Ninety, Crown-- Actually sounded really good, I still have it, VHT 2150, VHT Two/Fifty/Two, etc...)

The costs of the gear which achieves KILLER tone are potentially the cause of major trauma to the budget. I know you can relate.

Yes sir...I can! But isn't that the fun of it? "Hmm..I wonder if this will make me sound..better?" Lol....instead of playing, some of us just keep looking for and buying more stuff. Oh well..there are worse things to spend money on!

 

[sixty-niner]

since this is a lot more money than I was expecting to pay, I have another amp head. If I were to use it, would that be considered blending the 2 heads? I hear that term a lot but never expected to do it. As that would be 2 mono systems, what are the advantages or disadvantages of having a stereo power amp>?
I can smell it getting expensive.....

 

[Racerxrated]

Hmm..with two heads if you want to blend the two get a nice A/B/Y pedal, Lehle or Radial twin city come to mind. Then a stereo cab and run one head into each side of the cab or two separate cabs. Just run effects into one of the amps.

 

[Zachman]

since this is a lot more money than I was expecting to pay, I have another amp head. If I were to use it, would that be considered blending the 2 heads? I hear that term a lot but never expected to do it. As that would be 2 mono systems, what are the advantages or disadvantages of having a stereo power amp>?
I can smell it getting expensive.....

There is more than one way to approach this. When I think of the term 'blend heads', I think of Slaving one into another-- however, you could run a dual mono w/d configuration or a stereo configuration.

The benefits of running a stereo power amp with your amp head of choice is the ability to have 'Stereo' fx (panning delays tremolo, chorus etc.) vs only mono (if you used the 2 head approach, running Wet/Dry)-- running through the stereo power amp and L/R cabs along side (in parallel) w/ your Dry amp head tone of choice, and not having the outboard fx coloring the 'Core' Dry amp tone.

Cons: Bigger, Heavier, more $$$, need a soundman who knows what's going on, as you'll need 3 mics when playing live, and if you are using In ear monitors, you may find challenges getting the In ear mix right (WAY deeper of a subject-- involves having multiple feeds to send to the House or Monitor mix, in addition to routing to your speakers etc.).


Ex of Stereo setup using 2 amp heads
(There are other ways to doing both of the following. This is just a couple of simple examples, and I find I prefer series loops for the following examples-- for best results)

Amp A FX send to input of FX (L)
FX (L) OUTPUT to Loop RETURN of amp A
FX (R) OUTPUT to Loop RETURN of amp B

Ex. of W/D (Dual mono) setup using (2) amp heads

Guitar to Amp A, Amp A FX SEND to INPUT of FX (L/mono input)
FX (L) OUTPUT to Loop RETURN of AMP B


There are a lot of knowledgeable guys here who will likely chime in and suggest a variety of approaches, all legit. Sadly, bottom line is imo, the 'Best' results are defined by the individual using the rig, as to whether or not their preferences are achieved. It's the old adage, there is no substitute for experience.

I have literally run every configuration under the sun, and they all sounded great, however; I ended up hitting the wall (so to speak), in that I ended up wishing it did 'this or 'that' OR that it didn't do 'this' or 'that', and then in the end I wanted a rig that would allow me to indulge ALL of the above (mono, w/d, Stereo, w/d/w) w/ the added component of using multiple amps and sharing the fx among whichever amp I selected (in real time and via pre-programmed presets)

That said, I acknowledge that this approach is only for those who have achieved a particular level of insanity. lol

 

[Zachman]

so another amp head or some type of power amp is necessary. what kind of power amp do any of you recommend? something like the fryette power station? are there cheaper options?

Personally, I prefer the Mesa Simul 395, but experimentation is the only way to discover your own preferences to achieve 'your' target tone(s), as various amps will give various results.

The Mesa 290, 295, 395, and Strategy series are well thought of, as are the VHT power amps as far as tube power amps go. Used these can run 500-1k. Many others out there but I narrowed my search to these when I was interested in a wet/dry rig. Solid state I'm not sure. I wanted a tube rig. The Strategy takes 12 power tubes lol..completely unnecessary but fun!

Absolutely correct.

I have used a variety of various power amps over the years (Rocktron Velocity 100-- it worked, but I hated it in comparison to the Boogie395), Marshall 9000, Mesa Strategy 295/400/Simul 2:Ninety, Crown-- Actually sounded really good, I still have it, VHT 2150, VHT Two/Fifty/Two, etc...)

The costs of the gear which achieves KILLER tone are potentially the cause of major trauma to the budget. I know you can relate.

Yes sir...I can! But isn't that the fun of it? "Hmm..I wonder if this will make me sound..better?" Lol....instead of playing, some of us just keep looking for and buying more stuff. Oh well..there are worse things to spend money on!

Each phase of development for me was fun, and an invaluable source of experience, and they DID make me sound 'Better', but that doesn't equate to making me more proficient on the guitar , other than perhaps serving as inspiration-- which had me playing more, than I may have otherwise, and that DID help me become more proficient playing, AND getting a better sounding result from the rig too . Win Win

The other thing was learning how to use a wide variety of gear helped on the Engineering side of the equation too)-- but the 'Fun' target was always actually getting the intended results, in a rig which was reliable, quiet, and provided the variety of choices via Real time Direct Access switches as well as pre-programmed preset combinations w/ a single button press for use in the studio and on the live stage, as when for ex. doing session work-- it was often not necessarily 'MY' preference tone(s) that mattered-- rather was that of the Producer or the guy paying me to get what THEY wanted, that I needed to ALSO be able to achieve.

 

[CaseyCor]

Hey, it's Zackman! Long time no see. If anyone has the info you need on W/D rigs, it's Zack. He's the guy to talk to. Taught me a lot about this exact subject many years back over the phone. Good times.

 

[Zachman]

Hey, it's Zackman! Long time no see. If anyone has the info you need on W/D rigs, it's Zack. He's the guy to talk to. Taught me a lot about this exact subject many years back over the phone. Good times.

Aloha... LONG time indeed.

Thanks for the kind endorsement. Always happy to help when/where I can.

I hope all has been well w/ you and your family, and of course w/ you and your rig.

Merry Christmas

 

[RJF]

i would just run two heads and go W/W stereo. I tried W/D for a while thinking I needed to keep one amp dry, then tried running R/L stereo with both amps wet and was blown away at how much better the effects sound that are really designed for stereo in the first place. When you want dry, just create a patch with your midi switcher to make both amps go dry or "D/D" so to speak, for your core crunch rhythm sound.

 

[psychodave]

Don't cheap out on the poweramp.

Here is my mess. I'm rewiring up both of my racks.

 

[Zachman]

Don't cheap out on the poweramp.

Here is my mess. I'm rewiring up both of my racks.

Aloha Dave... Agree 100%. Generally guys spend decent $$ for FX units, and to put them through a cheap power amp that will not do them justice is just silly, imo.

 

[jimmy274]

I mainly use w/d/w rig when doing a Queen tribute show. Doing Brighton Rock Solo and that stuff, I just had to build a small w/d/w system.

On this clip I used Rocktron Velocity 150 1U power amp and Intellifex XL through two Bogner 2x12cb cabs. Dry is coming through the center 4x12 Bogner cab and I used Cameron CCV. I didn't nail Brian May's tone, but I did get a bit of his flavor. Interesting thing was that when the guy who mixed the track sent it to me for a preview, there was a lot of phase issues between dry and wet amps. I had to switch the phase on the center/dry track. I mix dry and wet signals in Intellifex. Velocity can keep up with CCV, putting out 75w through 8 ohm Bogners. Hell, it was great with AC30 with normal channel and tone cut fully up! Had to turn master volumes past noon though, to get the same volume on all three cabs during the Brighton Rock solo.

You have to be very careful when micing up three cabs. And it is a constant nightmare for engineers over here in Balkans.

In this mix, wet cabs are panned hard L/R and dry is 10% panned right.

p.s. On the last show we did, I borrowed friend's AC30 with Blue Alnicos and got the line level signal from speaker out via Palmer PDI-03. Went into Intellifex and Velocity for wets, put the treble booster in front of the amp and instantly melted myself down. Wow! It was unbelievable.