which delay? (analogic)

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diezel&gas

diezel&gas

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hi, i'm searching for a delay pedal...

which would you suggest me?
then: analogic, why?
digital, why?

thanx you :)
 
in front or loop
pedal or rack
corksniffer or budget
;)
 
i accept any andvice :)

i hava a multieffect pedalboard and it suks...

so i'm thinking on selling it then to buy singe analogic pedals.
 
I'd look for those cheap TC dual engines like the M300 (Stephen knows them better than me) or a used G-Major or Intellifex.

Pedalwise I have a Digidelay (wich isn't that bad - I suggest everybody to check out the CF-7 Chorus Factory - its awesome) and heard some good things by pedal-guys of the new Marshall series (echohead I believe).

Another non-boutique option are the Artecs (analog, 50 Euros or so).

But with a Herbie I'd go rack and digital . . .
 
I would also add the BOSS DD-20 from personal experience, and the TC Nova Delay has been reviewed favorably on some forums as well
 
I've tried the TC Nova Delay, g-sharp, rocktron xpression, the t-rexx replica and the eventide timefactor with my Herbert. I liked the Eventide the best. It's warm and thick and doesn't sound digital. the T-rexx and the nova are great choices too though. The Eventide is MIDI switchable which is great with the Herbert.
 
i use the g*major for ambient effects. especially for delay. its the price of several boss pedals, loaded with effects, and boasts almost infinite options regarding the variability of delays, reverbs, octave/pitch etc. imho, the quality of it's delays and reverbs rival those of units that cost 5 times as much.

i also own a boss dd-6, and the line 6 DD4 ambience pedal which is great (the green one); along with countless other boss, h.b.e. etc. pedals that do all kinds of crap. but most of these have been factored out of my rig by the g*major.

in the g*major, i like combining delays with pitch/octave effects. especially in stereo. its so cool. you can set the delays to different octaves/pitches while not touching the original signal, resulting in out of this world lead, ambience, and percussive sounds. you can adjust the timings by a single millisecond, or use the automatic "tap tempo" feature, to synchronize the delays with a pattern or riff.

when using a diezel, the high quality parallel loop should be used for delays, reverbs, etc. i crank all the effects to 100% wet, and keep the mix knob around 8:30. this renders very little alteration of the original amp tone while keeping the effects nice and present in the mix.

i run g*major in stereo with my vh4 and another amp. it goes:
diezel send to g*major --> g*major's right out to diezel parallel return --> and g*major's left out through some other effects and to the power amp in of a sunn model T on a mesa powerhouse 1000 bass cab.

i find that the g*major's tracking to not be so fast/great when it comes to straight up 1 or 2 octave down sounds. so for that stuff, i use and recommend an electro-harmonix POG pedal. basically, my diezel rig is supplemented by an octave down sunn bass rig, which is like playing guitar and bass at the same time. it really sounds like a bass. just awesome.
 
ajharris1215":31mpded4 said:
i use the g*major for ambient effects. especially for delay. its the price of several boss pedals, loaded with effects, and boasts almost infinite options regarding the variability of delays, reverbs, octave/pitch etc. imho, the quality of it's delays and reverbs rival those of units that cost 5 times as much.

i also own a boss dd-10, and the line 6 ambience pedal which is great (the green one); along with countless other boss, h.b.e. etc. pedals that do all kinds of crap. but most of these have been factored out of my rig by the g*major.

in the g*major, i like combining delays with pitch/octave effects. especially in stereo. its so cool. you can set the delays to different octaves/pitches while not touching the original signal, resulting in out of this world lead, ambience, and percussive sounds. you can adjust the timings by a single millisecond, or use the automatic "tap tempo" feature, to synchronize the delays with a pattern or riff.

when using a diezel, the high quality parallel loop should be used for delays, reverbs, etc. i crank all the effects to 100% wet, and keep the mix knob around 8:30. this renders very little alteration of the original amp tone while keeping the effects nice and present in the mix.

i run g*major in stereo with my vh4 and another amp. it goes:
diezel send to g*major --> g*major's right out to diezel parallel return --> and g*major's left out through some other effects and to the power amp in of a sunn model T on a mesa powerhouse 1000 bass cab.

i find that the g*major's tracking to not be so fast/great when it comes to straight up 1 or 2 octave down sounds. so for that stuff, i use and recommend an electro-harmonix POG pedal. basically, my diezel rig is supplemented by an octave down sunn bass rig, which is like playing guitar and bass at the same time. it really sounds like a bass. just awesome.
Click to expand...

thanx everyone. i wanted not to get a rack ora a multieffect processor as they 99% of the time sound fake and too digital- cold - dead sounding.

otherwise i heard many good things on the g major,9 (but if it is a rack multieffect processor, it is digital yet...)

then i'm having a bad experience using my actual digitech gnx1 on the parallel effect. the signal is affected and ate by the multieffect pedalboard...i don't want to face the same problem with a rack too..

i don't want to ruin the sound of the amp.

there are too many dealys...i'm so confused :)
 
diezel&gas":2ffq4hom said:
thanx everyone. i wanted not to get a rack ora a multieffect processor as they 99% of the time sound fake and too digital- cold - dead sounding.

otherwise i heard many good things on the g major,9 (but if it is a rack multieffect processor, it is digital yet...)

then i'm having a bad experience using my actual digitech gnx1 on the parallel effect. the signal is affected and ate by the multieffect pedalboard...i don't want to face the same problem with a rack too..

i don't want to ruin the sound of the amp.

there are too many dealys...i'm so confused :)
Click to expand...

If you want to keep it simple. the Line 6 DL4 Modeling Delay Pedal is great for an "in-line" delay. it works best between your guitar and amp.

here’s a quick link for it: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-LIN-DL4-LIST

please don't base your judgment of a high grade digital effects rack unit on that GNX-1!!! rack units like the g*major and other products from lexicon, eventide, etc. are in an entirely different league, and DON NOT destroy the signal like your digitech processor!!!

you may want to at least try the g*major, or a similar unit. these are high end effects that are designed to go in the loop of a quality amplifier. i understand your apprehension, i've been there. but when i finally switched to rack effects, i was very surprised at how little if any degradation of the tone occurred... also, the technique i previously mentioned (effects 100% wet in parallel loop, mix knob 8:30/WAY DOWN) makes tone degradation almost a non-issue.

incidentally, it sure is nice to have a MIDI effects unit. phasing out my coffin-sized pedal board was a luxury. i see why diezel and other amps are built exclusively for MIDI. its customizable for amps, effects, or anything else you can imagine; which just makes things better and WAY MORE user friendly.
 
My bandmate has the Maxon 900ms analog delay pedal. It's awesome. My Ibanez AD-9 is OK but only has 300ms delay time so is pretty limited...

The Maxon sounds quite pristine at lower delay levels, which is impressive. The AD-9 dirties up really quickly.
 
I just purchased a Time Factor. It is a little intimidating at first, but I am getting used to it. I use it in the loop. It has a reverse reverb and a 12s looper which is pretty cool. I am enjoying it more and more everyday. There is a switch to run line level or inst level on both the input and output. I would personally try as many as you can.
 
please forgive me but i hadn't read your reply with that picture <---- :lol: :LOL:

thanx
 
I have 4 different delays, so I have lots of options and different delay sounds.
I run them all in front of my amp, but with a Lehle D.Loop to keep them out of the signal chain when needed.
Listen to my band at myspace.com/hoertberge. There are some parts to give you an example for the different delay types there are.

Here's what I got and where you can listen to it:

1. BOSS DD-5 with FS-5U tap pedal - plain digital delay which some find harsh and sterile. I like it and use it primarily for tap tempo stuff, dotted eigth notes (à la U2) and eigth notes. Tap Tempo works great and compared to most delays, like the newer DD-6 you don't have to keep the on/off switch pressed for some seconds to access the tap tempo option. It has a dedicated tap pedal input. That's why people are still paying good money for it on ebay. Good all-around delay pedal and my main delay. Listen to "Mehr Mein", at 1:03 there are eigth note repeats (in the half time pre chorus). Clean delay. Or as a percussive effect with a short delay time (dialed in manually to achieve the sixteenth note at this tempo, not tapped in) and only one repeat at 2:46 - 2:48. Tom Morello trademark.

2. Ibanez AD9 - analog delay with 300 ms maximum delay time. I use it for rhythmic/percussive effects (think Dredg - "Same ol' road") or use it to make space invader sounds by tweaking it to self oscillation. Very dark, lo-fi sounding pedal, great character. Check it out on "Blind" at 0:55 - 1:02. Short delay time, lots of repeats.

3. TC Vintage Delay - awesome sound. Almost on in all our songs as a background delay, fattening my sound. With its "Filter" button, you can apply a hi-cut which lets it sound creamy and analog. But it's digital, having a tap tempo function which has its own tap button. Expensive (about 350 Euros) but awesome sound quality- it's a TC. Listen to the song "Keine Spur". You can hear it in the verses, very subtle and classy, I think :-). Example 2: "Mehr Mein" again: at 3:16 before the quiet breakdown, on the high eigth notes. And "Blind" at 1:35 - 1:55. Lots of repeats there. Dark and warm.

4. BOSS RE-20 - a replica of an old tape echo, the legendary Roland Space Echo. Sounds just great, totally analog with digital convenience. Tap tempo, too, and a spring reverb emulation which sounds ok/good enough. This thing shines with its midrangey feedback sounds which are organic and lively. Very great for self oscillation, too. Gives you that old-school echo sound instead of clean delay. Own character. Got it after the recordings, so no example here, sorry.

But there's also one example for that Line6 Echo Park on "Blind", too. At 3:47 - 4:02 on vocals for that fluttering sound. Panned afterwards when mixing the song, that's unfortunately not the pedal itself. Too bad it's such a noisy and tone degrading pedal, it has such great sounds (and lots of them) and oscillates beautifully, as you can hear here.


Ok, and now some basic delay stuff that I found out over the years and that helped shape my sound:

1. If you want a balanced dry/wet mix when using a multi channel amp (we are in the Diezel forum here, haha, no question about that), put it in the amp's parallel fx loop. It will sound rich on clean sounds and not overpowering in the drive channels. Just right. Be sure to turn up the "effect level" knob to ensure there's only delay coming out of your, er, delay and not the unaltered sound. The longer signal chain of the latter (through the delay/s) could give you phasing problems when it's mixed with the dry signal in the amp. The RE-20 and some others have a "direct sound off" button for that purpose.

2. If you want very dominant delay sounds for special effects, put it in front of the amp. This way you can have a full wet, delay only sound. I use a true bypass looper so the digital stuff is only in my signal chain when it's turned on and used.

3. Most delay pedals alter the tone/noise floor/volume level when on and even when off. And most delays are digital units. Everytime a signal is sent through these, analog becomes converted to digital and back again. And those converters aren't that good unless you have real quality stuff (like the TC). That means using the fx loop on your amp in parallel mode is your only chance to preserve the real tube amp sound and just blending in the delay signal. You spend 3000,- on a great amp to ruin its sound with the AD/DA converters of a 120,- delay? Not a good idea.

4. To get a delay to self-oscillate, just turn up the "repeat" or "feedback" knob. Choose short delay times. Play just a short note, mute it with your palm and start turning down the delay time. It will get louder very fast, be careful. The AD9 and RE-20 are great for that. Digital Delays will sound shrill when doing this, analog ones sound great and lo-fi.

Ok, I just thought this would be some stuff worth sharing. Hope the guys that already knew this are not like, "Yeah, smart ass, thanks for telling us these revolutionary delay tricks...".

See ya,

Jakob
 
Jakob":189t2tlj said:
I have 4 different delays, so I have lots of options and different delay sounds.
I run them all in front of my amp, but with a Lehle D.Loop to keep them out of the signal chain when needed.
Listen to my band at myspace.com/hoertberge. There are some parts to give you an example for the different delay types there are.

Here's what I got and where you can listen to it:

1. BOSS DD-5 with FS-5U tap pedal - plain digital delay which some find harsh and sterile. I like it and use it primarily for tap tempo stuff, dotted eigth notes (à la U2) and eigth notes. Tap Tempo works great and compared to most delays, like the newer DD-6 you don't have to keep the on/off switch pressed for some seconds to access the tap tempo option. It has a dedicated tap pedal input. That's why people are still paying good money for it on ebay. Good all-around delay pedal and my main delay. Listen to "Mehr Mein", at 1:03 there are eigth note repeats (in the half time pre chorus). Clean delay. Or as a percussive effect with a short delay time (dialed in manually to achieve the sixteenth note at this tempo, not tapped in) and only one repeat at 2:46 - 2:48. Tom Morello trademark.

2. Ibanez AD9 - analog delay with 300 ms maximum delay time. I use it for rhythmic/percussive effects (think Dredg - "Same ol' road") or use it to make space invader sounds by tweaking it to self oscillation. Very dark, lo-fi sounding pedal, great character. Check it out on "Blind" at 0:55 - 1:02. Short delay time, lots of repeats.

3. TC Vintage Delay - awesome sound. Almost on in all our songs as a background delay, fattening my sound. With its "Filter" button, you can apply a hi-cut which lets it sound creamy and analog. But it's digital, having a tap tempo function which has its own tap button. Expensive (about 350 Euros) but awesome sound quality- it's a TC. Listen to the song "Keine Spur". You can hear it in the verses, very subtle and classy, I think :-). Example 2: "Mehr Mein" again: at 3:16 before the quiet breakdown, on the high eigth notes. And "Blind" at 1:35 - 1:55. Lots of repeats there. Dark and warm.

4. BOSS RE-20 - a replica of an old tape echo, the legendary Roland Space Echo. Sounds just great, totally analog with digital convenience. Tap tempo, too, and a spring reverb emulation which sounds ok/good enough. This thing shines with its midrangey feedback sounds which are organic and lively. Very great for self oscillation, too. Gives you that old-school echo sound instead of clean delay. Own character. Got it after the recordings, so no example here, sorry.

But there's also one example for that Line6 Echo Park on "Blind", too. At 3:47 - 4:02 on vocals for that fluttering sound. Panned afterwards when mixing the song, that's unfortunately not the pedal itself. Too bad it's such a noisy and tone degrading pedal, it has such great sounds (and lots of them) and oscillates beautifully, as you can hear here.


Ok, and now some basic delay stuff that I found out over the years and that helped shape my sound:

1. If you want a balanced dry/wet mix when using a multi channel amp (we are in the Diezel forum here, haha, no question about that), put it in the amp's parallel fx loop. It will sound rich on clean sounds and not overpowering in the drive channels. Just right. Be sure to turn up the "effect level" knob to ensure there's only delay coming out of your, er, delay and not the unaltered sound. The longer signal chain of the latter (through the delay/s) could give you phasing problems when it's mixed with the dry signal in the amp. The RE-20 and some others have a "direct sound off" button for that purpose.

2. If you want very dominant delay sounds for special effects, put it in front of the amp. This way you can have a full wet, delay only sound. I use a true bypass looper so the digital stuff is only in my signal chain when it's turned on and used.

3. Most delay pedals alter the tone/noise floor/volume level when on and even when off. And most delays are digital units. Everytime a signal is sent through these, analog becomes converted to digital and back again. And those converters aren't that good unless you have real quality stuff (like the TC). That means using the fx loop on your amp in parallel mode is your only chance to preserve the real tube amp sound and just blending in the delay signal. You spend 3000,- on a great amp to ruin its sound with the AD/DA converters of a 120,- delay? Not a good idea.

4. To get a delay to self-oscillate, just turn up the "repeat" or "feedback" knob. Choose short delay times. Play just a short note, mute it with your palm and start turning down the delay time. It will get louder very fast, be careful. The AD9 and RE-20 are great for that. Digital Delays will sound shrill when doing this, analog ones sound great and lo-fi.

Ok, I just thought this would be some stuff worth sharing. Hope the guys that already knew this are not like, "Yeah, smart ass, thanks for telling us these revolutionary delay tricks...".

See ya,

Jakob
Click to expand...

thanx so so much Jakob, i appreciate :) you were very kind on explaing and write all of this :)

yes i hate the fact to ruin the sound of a amp thru digital effects.. so --> parallel efx loop :)

it's hard to choso one delay and leave off someone of them.. it would be cool to rent a pair of 4 5 6 pedals and test them for your needs at home, but it's not possible :)

thanx again :)

congrats for your band!
 
diezel&gas":7ffbisbw said:
it's hard to choso one delay and leave off someone of them.. it would be cool to rent a pair of 4 5 6 pedals and test them for your needs at home, but it's not possible :)

thanx again :)

congrats for your band!
Click to expand...

This does exist, it's called free return policy and is offered by most online retailers, just gotta use it man.
 
what about these?


1) Visual Sound V2-H2O Chorus & Echo Analog Chorus , Analog Delay 226 E

2 ) Helectro Harmonix Stereo Memory Man - Hazarai 215E

3 ) Tech 21 Boost D.L.A. Analog Delay with Clean Boost, 100% analog Mix, 180 E

4 ) MXR M169 Carbon Copy Analog Delay 600ms Delay-Time, analog Sound, True Bypass 170 E

5 ) ibanez AD9 Analog Delay 171 E

6 ) Carl Martin Red Repeat 100 E

7 ) Carl Martin Delayla 286 E

i like the most the Tech 21 and Mxr m169
 
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