212 Cabinet choice....

Looking to get another 212 cab. I have a Herbert in my studio and am considering running it into a Mills Mach 212 (Rear loaded), Diezel Front or Diezel Rear. I tend to play older Ozzy, Metallica to Red, Bullet For My Valentine, and Shinedown. Looking for something that projects well as I rarely run the master volume past 10 . What cabinet would you choose if you could only get one. I am looking for feedback on 212's only (no room for a 412). Speaker selection will be twin V30's.

Mills are pretty golden man, no hesitation there... Only other cab is a Bogner OS 2x12 that kinda comes to mind for BIG sound.

Peace,
V.

What about a VHT Fat bottom 2x12?
I m running it with my Einstein 100, it sounds Huge and projects really well. But the speakers are Eminence P50s.

I've no experience with Diezel nor Mills cabs. But the Mesa 2x12 is hard to beat in terms of value and quality. I've owned and used lots of 2x12 cabs and the Mesa is the best (for me) so far. It's constructed incredibly well, can be had relatively cheap, loaded with V30 speakers and even comes with removable casters (which many cabs do not have). It projects well and will handle the power of your amp with the master at 10:00. Just keep in mind I've never tried a Diezel cab, nor a Mills cab.

port city 2x12 os kills with my Einstein.

I had Rivera K212 (or whatever the Knuclehead series was coded) with V30 and VHT Fat Bottom with P50Es.

Now I have two Port City 2x12" with V30s. Extremely pleased with the sound. However, these cabs are not much smaller that some 4x12" and they are very heavy to drag around. But the sound pleases me even with 8-string guitars (incl. non-metal tones...keep the midds up!).

And the amps are VH4 and Mako MAK2 if any concern here.

We use the Diezel FL V30 & RL Hempcones with the VH4, works a treat, but I've heard the V30's don't do so well on the Herbie, so maybe K100's & Hempcones.

I love the Hempcones as a mixer, nice big bass response and great definition in the high end, not ice picky though. But they lack a little punch, hence the mix. (Plus the hempcones are only 40W cones so if they are your only cab you have to watch you don't blow them)

i.ak":146v5g3a said:

I had Rivera K212 (or whatever the Knuclehead series was coded) with V30 and VHT Fat Bottom with P50Es.

Now I have two Port City 2x12" with V30s. Extremely pleased with the sound. However, these cabs are not much smaller that some 4x12" and they are very heavy to drag around. But the sound pleases me even with 8-string guitars (incl. non-metal tones...keep the midds up!).

And the amps are VH4 and Mako MAK2 if any concern here.

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Can you compare the VHT Fatbottom with P50Es to the Port City with V30s in more detail? Those are the top two 2x12 cabs I'm considering. Thanks!

Here are some quick thoughts, please just ask if you want to hear something particular. And please do remember that these are only my personal opinions so very likely someone will disagree with me.

VHT FatBottom was very nice cab itself, but I did not really like the speakers in it. The cab was wonderfully small and light, but very sturdy and no annoying resonance noise etc. The cab had well balanced sound, but was rather small and hence did not have such "roomy" output as larger cabs. The speakers were "dull" sounding in my opinion - Well, I really love the V30s' sound and the P50E do not have that nasty V30 character in them. The cab was frontloaded so this also needs to be taken into account. Many do love these cabs so they cannot be bad, just wasn't the sound I was looking for.

As the VHT was small and rather light weighted, the Port City (OS) cabs are totally the opposite. They are very large and heavy. I think there might be no big difference in the size and weight when compared to small 4x12". Sound is very ballanced and musical. These cabs surely are not the most focused and clear sounding, but they are extremely musical sounding and not sterile in any ways. Please do not understand me incorrectly, I don't mean that the cabs are unclear or muddy sounding, but they are not as focused as e.g. the smaller and front loaded VHT. Also, no resonances or fart-sounds occur even with 8-strings on higher volumes (= band rehearsal volume level). Due to its large size I think these are very good cabs for clean sounds where the warmth is often preferred.

In short I would say that the VHT is better than the Port City OS cab for fast articulare riffing with higher amount of distortion. Then again, the Port City is much larger sounding cabinet and when speed and articulation is not the key element, but warmth and full-bodied sound is then I would definitely recommend Port City OS over much more dull-sounding VHT.

Key technical differences to take into account here:
- VHT is front loaded Vs. PC is rear loaded
- VHT had P50E speakers Vs. PC has V30 (note that you can order your PC with other speakers)
- VHT is compact Vs. PC is over-sized and very heavy
- VHT was not ported Vs. PC is ported cab

Thanks for the reply - that's great information! I do want something that's articulate, but I also want a full warm tone to ring out. I played a front loaded (Tone Tubby) cab recently. Perhaps it's similar in spec to the Fatbottom, except with different speakers. It was extremely articulate, but had a sterile tone while the note was resonating after the initial transient attack. So to me it was too focused on the attack and not enough on the tone of the note ringing out.

Any comments from that point of view as to which would be better? Obviously the speakers have an impact too.

I'm also curious if the tone sounds unnatural at all in the Port City cab. I ask that because I would figure the sound from the rear of the speaker would be out of phase when mixing with the sound from the front of the speaker - unless they designed it just right so that they are largely in phase when meeting at the front of the cab.

guitarobert":3dkl4clx said:

Thanks for the reply - that's great information! I do want something that's articulate, but I also want a full warm tone to ring out. I played a front loaded (Tone Tubby) cab recently. Perhaps it's similar in spec to the Fatbottom, except with different speakers. It was extremely articulate, but had a sterile tone while the note was resonating after the initial transient attack. So to me it was too focused on the attack and not enough on the tone of the note ringing out.

Any comments from that point of view as to which would be better? Obviously the speakers have an impact too.

I'm also curious if the tone sounds unnatural at all in the Port City cab. I ask that because I would figure the sound from the rear of the speaker would be out of phase when mixing with the sound from the front of the speaker - unless they designed it just right so that they are largely in phase when meeting at the front of the cab.

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I refuse to comment on which is best over something else as that kind of questions are always extremely subjective to one's personal preferencies. I like the Port City (OS) cabs more than the VHT FatBottom, but that might not be your case.

As you stated, the speakers have a very significant impact here. Also do you prefer front or back loaded cabs is another question to begin with.

The Port City cabs are ported from the front (bottom). That is the sound coming inside from the cab or in other terms behind of the speakers, but I don't exactly see how it would mess with your sound that is coming from in front of your speakers. Of course if you plan to mic this sound you are receiving from the "port-hole" you need to take into account the phasing. Still there is no difference as i.e. using two mics in only one speker - Wrong placement and signals are out of phase in comparison to each other.

I would say that the main advantage of ported cab is not in the close miking, but how full the cab sounds live in the room. Side notation: It is also nice to experiment miking clean sounds from a bit further away with a good condenser microphone.

I think Daniel from Port City Amplification has also posted to here Rig-Talk. Maybe he could answer in more detail to your questions if you are interested about the Port City cabs. I think he is here with name 'portcityamps'.

i.ak":2ipiqut5 said:

I refuse to comment on which is best over something else as that kind of questions are always extremely subjective to one's personal preferencies. I like the Port City (OS) cabs more than the VHT FatBottom, but that might not be your case.

As you stated, the speakers have a very significant impact here. Also do you prefer front or back loaded cabs is another question to begin with.

The Port City cabs are ported from the front (bottom). That is the sound coming inside from the cab or in other terms behind of the speakers, but I don't exactly see how it would mess with your sound that is coming from in front of your speakers. Of course if you plan to mic this sound you are receiving from the "port-hole" you need to take into account the phasing. Still there is no difference as i.e. using two mics in only one speker - Wrong placement and signals are out of phase in comparison to each other.

I would say that the main advantage of ported cab is not in the close miking, but how full the cab sounds live in the room. Side notation: It is also nice to experiment miking clean sounds from a bit further away with a good condenser microphone.

I think Daniel from Port City Amplification has also posted to here Rig-Talk. Maybe he could answer in more detail to your questions if you are interested about the Port City cabs. I think he is here with name 'portcityamps'.

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No problem. I was just looking for your personal subjective feedback, keeping in mind that mine could be different. But I have a good idea of your opinion and I appreciate it.

Regarding the signals being out of phase, the sound at the rear of a speaker is out of phase with the sound from the front of the speaker. Hence the need for a baffle to prevent the two sounds from mixing in air at the front of the cab. In the case of a ported cab the rear signal is intentionally sent to the front, although with some delay because of the longer path to reach the front. I was just curious if there's anything strange (or maybe strange in a good way) in this design since the two sounds end up mixing together at the front of the cab.

guitarobert":2imuhbxb said:

No problem. I was just looking for your personal subjective feedback, keeping in mind that mine could be different. But I have a good idea of your opinion and I appreciate it.

Regarding the signals being out of phase, the sound at the rear of a speaker is out of phase with the sound from the front of the speaker. Hence the need for a baffle to prevent the two sounds from mixing in air at the front of the cab. In the case of a ported cab the rear signal is intentionally sent to the front, although with some delay because of the longer path to reach the front. I was just curious if there's anything strange (or maybe strange in a good way) in this design since the two sounds end up mixing together at the front of the cab.

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You are very welcome. I hope I have managed to give you at least some useful information. And please just ask if you are wondering something else.

I opened the cabs once, but did not find anything fancy inside (by the way, very good construction and beautiful finnishing). I also took some measurements and tried to figure out the same thing I think you are thinking here, but honestly, I did not come up with any direct solution. I think this is what separates skilled professionals from the curious hobbyists . My thoughts to this topic are that, since the output from the port will be mainly (if not entirely) lower frequencies, which have very long wave length (E, 6th string which is approx. 82Hz = over 4 meter wave-lenght. Not to mention 7 or 8-strings here.), it does not exactly cause any phasing issues as the sound waves produced by the speaker are much shorter and the speaker itself is physically much smaller in size than the low frequency sound waves. Another reason is that the low frequency sound waves are omnidirectional and are not projected only directly on axis with the speaker, but are spread to other directions as well. Or maybe I am completely lost with my thinking and have no clue what so ever - A curious hobbyist .

What really maters more than science is that personally I and bunch of people who have heard these cabs live or studio, directly or miked have not noticed any exceptional phasing issues - No good nor bad. Other option is that they have not dared to state that out loud , but I strongly doubt that. I recommend contacting Daniel from Port City Amplification if you are interested about the concept of the construction. He is a very nice person to deal with.

Conclusion from my point-of-view: At least I am able to create the sound I want with these cabs and VH4 (and Mako + guitars, fingers and other equipment) so I will recommend these cabs.

Here's an update after many months. I ended up getting a Port City 2x12 regular size cab with V30s. It sounds fantastic and I'm happy!

Thanks to you and others for your advice. I tried out a number of cabs along the way and the Port City ended up being the one. Daniel is a great guy to deal with as well.

That being said, these companies have the best customer service I've encountered in recent years. Excellent products and great customer service.

Diezel
Port City
Aracom

I'd recommend buying from any of these guys! All have gone over the top on answering questions and providing support.

Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase.