Over-sized closed-back 2x12 has too much low-end. Why?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fucduperinchit
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fucduperinchit":2bxetjgc said:
kiff":2bxetjgc said:
fucduperinchit":2bxetjgc said:
Klark":2bxetjgc said:
I've always stayed away from the oversized 2x12 cabs because of their excessive low end. IMO, the THD and similar sized 2x12s are the ticket. I recently sold my THD and I regret it everyday..
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I think you're right. Logically, it seems like I would need to reduce the interior size of the cabinet - or is similar to a bass drum, where the larger one sound more "boomy" because of the additional material? Resonating I mean...
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I'm no expert in acoustics, but I think it's because a larger open area allows "standing waves" of longer length (thus lower freq.). while padding disperses and/or absorbs them to reduce them (any freq) in the first place
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So would padding get rid of the excessive bass?

RANT ALERT!
I just can't imagine that anyone thinking an OS 2x12 sounds good! I think MESA started this crap with their Dual-Rectalfire cabinets...
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I have two oversized cabinets. They don't sound muddy.

It's the cabinet wood and construction. I've heard of cabinets with pine backs that sounded fantastic, but an entire cabinet of pine is going to introduce mushy characteristics to the tone.
 
fucduperinchit":2031od4e said:
RANT ALERT!
I just can't imagine that anyone thinking an OS 2x12 sounds good! I think MESA started this crap with their Dual-Rectalfire cabinets...
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I've owned two Bogner OS2X12s loaded with V30s and they were/are awesome. Still own one of them. Not too much bass, just right. Thumpy, but tight. You want to talk big and bassy? My Uberkab DESTROYS every other cab for that. But I love it as well.
 
Yep. Had an OS Bogner 2x12 for a bit, and the Uberkab is ridiculous in comparison.
 
The OS Cornford 2x12 sounds good with the Cornford head plugged-in, but not as good with the Bogner? My 4x12 Bogner cab is pine also, and it sounds fabulous no matter what head I plug into it. I think the pine tends to reflect a bit maybe... It sure was hard cutting through that stuff! Many of these boutique amps seem to be cabinet dependent to a certain extent I guess?

Is there any difference between an XTC 4x12 and the Uber 4x12? I want a 4x12 with the black grill-cloth, but everyone refers the black cab as a Bogner "Uber" cab... Are these basically the same cabinet - just different cloth?
 
fucduperinchit":wvqbqva6 said:
Is there any difference between an XTC 4x12 and the Uber 4x12? I want a 4x12 with the black grill-cloth, but everyone refers the black cab as a Bogner "Uber" cab... Are these basically the same cabinet - just different cloth?
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I've wondered that myself. The only difference that I knew about was that a regular Bogner 4X12 comes loaded with V30s. Whereas the Uberkab came with 2-V30s and 2-T75s in an "X" pattern.

My Uberkab is all-black for sure and that's what I wanted. But I picked mine up used on ebay, unloaded. So I put my "vintage" silver-label G12-30s in there. It's just a MONSTER cab no matter what's loaded in there. Well made and huge sounding. The same way the OS2X12 is compared to most other 2X12s.

BTW... my Uberkab sits right next to my Marshall JCM900 series 1960B cab and the dimensions seem to be the same on the outside. But the Bogner cab definitely sounds bigger.
 
Red_Label":13rkd93m said:
fucduperinchit":13rkd93m said:
Is there any difference between an XTC 4x12 and the Uber 4x12? I want a 4x12 with the black grill-cloth, but everyone refers the black cab as a Bogner "Uber" cab... Are these basically the same cabinet - just different cloth?
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I've wondered that myself. The only difference that I knew about was that a regular Bogner 4X12 comes loaded with V30s. Whereas the Uberkab came with 2-V30s and 2-T75s in an "X" pattern.

My Uberkab is all-black for sure and that's what I wanted. But I picked mine up used on ebay, unloaded. So I put my "vintage" silver-label G12-30s in there. It's just a MONSTER cab no matter what's loaded in there. Well made and huge sounding. The same way the OS2X12 is compared to most other 2X12s.

BTW... my Uberkab sits right next to my Marshall JCM900 series 1960B cab and the dimensions seem to be the same on the outside. But the Bogner cab definitely sounds bigger.
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Is there any padding in the Uber cab? Maybe on the back panel?
 
fucduperinchit":2y2dmh0t said:
Is there any padding in the Uber cab? Maybe on the back panel?
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Yes. All sealed Bogner 2X12s and 4X12s seem to have that insulation-type padding on their back panels (at least every one I've ever had open). Dunno about those 1X12 cubes though.
 
Red_Label":2ohylouk said:
fucduperinchit":2ohylouk said:
Is there any padding in the Uber cab? Maybe on the back panel?
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Yes. All sealed Bogner 2X12s and 4X12s seem to have that insulation-type padding on their back panels (at least every one I've ever had open). Dunno about those 1X12 cubes though.
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That's key in their "large" tone I think. Top Hat does the same thing I think?
 
Ya know I read this thread and I have some OS 2/12 bogner cabs. The anni. vintage white tolex cabs. They came with v-30s in them. I thought they sounded okay but just a bit mellow. warm but not articulate.
So I installed a j-75 65 watter scumback and a h-75 65 watter scumback speaker in one of them. Left the other one empty in the corner until I finish speaker try outs.
So these do have the batten pad stuff on the back panels. I left the battery cable size wiring in them. A real pain in the butt to solder new speakers in due to the huge wiring Bogner uses.
The thing is, I love Scumback speakers, but the j and h 75 speakers in thise cab to me just sounds like a cheap thin 4 12 cab. So I wonder if I go back with one of the v-30s that came in it? The h-75 scumback is like a h-30.
So I was wondering if a few of you guys liked the v-30s in these cabs from bogner then a v-30/h-30 mix may sound good ? I just kinda got discouraged after initially hearing the cab after loading it and set it off to the side. Time to get it figured out and use it or sell it, and the other cab that matches it as well. My other idea is to maybe get a gt-65 celestion and mix with one of the v-30s, or get some m-75 scumback speakers to put in it. :confused:
 
I wanna ad that with mine there is no muddy quality or bass issue.
 
Hollywood. but that v30 back in with that J series and rock out. I think you will like it. Its like and angry greenback with that lead 80 vibe. pretty cool I think. give it a shot man.
 
Since converting it to a semi open-back, and putting a pillow in the bottom - it's sounding A LOT better. I think it's the wood myself. I tried a bunch of different speakers before getting the Alnico's, and these are the best sounding by far. I'm going get rid of the pillow, and then line the inside with padding. Jim at Scumback said he's also heard of people having issues with pine cabs. Every pine cab (usually Fender) have always been combos. They say pine has a natural reverb to the wood, which would explain much of what's going on I guess. I'm just going to keep experimenting until I get it right.
 
Interesting comments by Jim. I do hear a little natural reverb in my combo cab of my Fender Brown Super and this early 60's Fender Bandmaster cab both of which I believe to be pine. On the bandmaster cab it originally came closed back with insulation lining it. I took out the insulation. Later I converted it to opened back as you can see in the picture. Notice the divider going down the middle. I have Weber 12A125A, which don't really have that much bass. From my experience with the Celestion Alnico Gold, it had more bass. As I mentioned before in another 212 cab, I did find the anni G12H30 speakers to be boomy in the bass with the cab closed, but just fine when that 212 cab (made of birch plywood) was converted to opened back.

IMG_1831.jpg
 
Put it on a stand. If you get it off the ground the "boom" will disappear.

~B
 
baron55":157dlw4n said:
One thing to try is you notice most 4X12 cabs have a piece of wood that connects the front baffle to the back of the cab, that is to control excessie bass and minimizes the cab ineteration
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Hmmm... Come to think of it, some of the best sounding 4x12 cabs I've ever owned had a center brace that extends from the baffle to the back. I always though that was there to shore-up a thin back panel?

Mine is sitting on casters, so getting it off the floor didn't help that much. Seeing as how it's an open-back cab now, I have to lean toward it being the excessive amount of pine wood itself. I think if it weren't so big, it would sound just fine. What I've learned here so far is that opening up a cabinet does not so much lessen the bottom-end, but disperses it.

My Cornford 4x12 pine cab is the most unique sounding 4x12 cabs I've ever owned. It does have a natural reverb to it, just as Jim mentioned... But it's not overly bass heavy - it's just right.
 
well in the world of car audio, a ported sub will give you that boom where all them low-riders are thudding down the street; and a closed sub will be tighter.
 
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