Crash course on forming chords.....

[Joeytpg]

I just learned the circle of 5ths and I'm getting more and more into theory.

I want to learn HOW TO FORM chords and how to tell what chord a given figure is.

for example the chord:


(e)----------0----------
(B)---------5----------
(G)----------6---------
(D)-------4-----------
(A)---------5----------
(E)-X-------------------


how can I:

1) tell what chord it is...
2) learn to "form" a chord like that with some basic theory, not just with my ear

 

[carl roa]

You need to study:

Major Scales
Key Signatures
Intervals
Chord Structures: Triads and 7th chords

Chord structure is basic math. Really not difficult to get together ... just takes some study. Once you have that down, you'll be able to "see" chords on the fretboard.

The chord you laid out in TAB is the following notes:

D - F# - C# - E

That spells a D maj7th (9) .... basically a D major 7th with an added 9. I figured that out by looking at the notes of the chord and analyzing the relationships. Remember, the root of the chord isn't always in the bass. In this case it is ... I saw the D - F# ... major third ... then the C# is the major 7th ... then the E is a natural 9.

Hope this helped.

 

[Joeytpg]

awesome that's a very good explanation.

So you recommend I focus on those 4 things:

Major Scale (I have a very good understanding of this, I think)

KEy Signatures (need work here!)

Intervals (I understand this but need to understand it deeply and be able to not "think" about it, but "see it" right away)

Chord Structure (Where I need the most work)

anything else? do you have a learning pattern you suggest? should I start with X for example and KEEP AT IT before moving to Y, etc etc? what would X be?

 

[carl roa]

awesome that's a very good explanation.

So you recommend I focus on those 4 things:

Major Scale (I have a very good understanding of this, I think)

KEy Signatures (need work here!)

Intervals (I understand this but need to understand it deeply and be able to not "think" about it, but "see it" right away)

Chord Structure (Where I need the most work)

anything else? do you have a learning pattern you suggest? should I start with X for example and KEEP AT IT before moving to Y, etc etc? what would X be?

Well, probably best to start with the Major Scale. A good harmony course would really help ... I assume you are a guitar player? If so, learning to apply all the thoery to the fretboard is important if you want to expand your playing. The theory side can open the doors to a lot of new ideas and get your playing to the next level.

I am sure there are resources on the web. Not that I can recommend a specific site ... but you can google it. Also, you may consider finding a good local instructor. Not that I am trying to sell you on anything, , but I do teach lessons via skype. Be happy to work with you on all this. I do have a whole presentation on theory and how to apply it to the guitar so it becomes easier to deal with. If it is not applied, people tend to forget it.

Carl

 

[racerevlon]

You need to study:

Major Scales
Key Signatures
Intervals
Chord Structures: Triads and 7th chords

Chord structure is basic math. Really not difficult to get together ... just takes some study. Once you have that down, you'll be able to "see" chords on the fretboard.

The chord you laid out in TAB is the following notes:

D - F# - C# - E

That spells a D maj7th (9) .... basically a D major 7th with an added 9. I figured that out by looking at the notes of the chord and analyzing the relationships. Remember, the root of the chord isn't always in the bass. In this case it is ... I saw the D - F# ... major third ... then the C# is the major 7th ... then the E is a natural 9.

Hope this helped.

I always thought this was interesting, because as well as being a Dmaj7th(9), if you remove the (9) this could either be a Dmaj7 or F#min triad, correct?

Cheers,

 

[carl roa]

You need to study:

Major Scales
Key Signatures
Intervals
Chord Structures: Triads and 7th chords

Chord structure is basic math. Really not difficult to get together ... just takes some study. Once you have that down, you'll be able to "see" chords on the fretboard.

The chord you laid out in TAB is the following notes:

D - F# - C# - E

That spells a D maj7th (9) .... basically a D major 7th with an added 9. I figured that out by looking at the notes of the chord and analyzing the relationships. Remember, the root of the chord isn't always in the bass. In this case it is ... I saw the D - F# ... major third ... then the C# is the major 7th ... then the E is a natural 9.

Hope this helped.

I always thought this was interesting, because as well as being a Dmaj7th(9), if you remove the (9) this could either be a Dmaj7 or F#min triad, correct?

Cheers,

Well, not exactly ... F#m = F#-A-C#. If you remove the (9) you do have a straight D Maj7th. D-F#-C# ... which is a Major 7th chord without a 5th.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

A good place to study and practice is musictheory.net - it's got a lot of helpful resources.

The biggest thing is knowing the relationships of scale degrees to chords.

Your basic major triad is 1-3-5 all diatonic to the key, example C the I(1) chord is C-E-G, now for the different variations of 7th's you have the Maj7 (natural 7 in the key) B, half step away from the tonic of C (leading tone), you have the b7 for a C7 Dom7th chord which is B flat, and then you can have a diminished 7th chord as well where its minor 3rds stacked on top of each other, so C Eb Gb Bbb(A), and obviously don't forget the Minor 7th Chord, which is C Eb G Bb.

So Major 7 - 1-3-5-7
Dom 7 - 1-3-5-b7
Minor 7 - 1-b3-5-b7
Half Dim 7 - 1-b3-b7-b7 (also known as minor 7 b5)
Dim 7 - 1-b3-b5-bb7


I'm sure I goofed up some wording here, but I think it's correct for the most part I'm kind of hurrying through the day but wanted to chime in.

The other extensions you have are 9/#/b(2),11/#(4),13/b(6), there are also 6th subs and b5's, as well as #5's, sometimes I've seen 10ths used as well, notice all the (common) extensions are the scale degree +7 aka up an octave, which is not always the case, extensions can be in a huge variety of ways and are not always on the top.

So my advice, start with understanding triads and knowing in Major Keys, your chords are
I(major),
ii(minor),
iii(minor),
IV(major),
V(major also often known as V7 dominant chord),
vi(minor),
viio(diminished).

In minor keys

i(minor)
iio(diminished)
III(major)
iv(minor
V/v(technically diatonically it's minor but I can't think of any minor v in modern popular music doesn't mean the aren't there, its usually assumed major)
VI(major)
VII(Major)

Notice the in the relative major to minor relationship the i=vi, iio=viio, III=I, iv=ii, V=iii(kind of if it were minor?), VI=IV, VII=V and vise versa, I started with the minor to major, just flip it around for major to minor. Example A is the 6th scale degree in C major, also known as the relative minor aka Aeolian mode, and the minor vi chord.

I'm sure more people will chyme in but hopefully this will give you a basic start.

Dallas

 

[Joeytpg]

Thank you dallas! I'm still getting my head wrapped around all of this.

That's why I wanted to know where should I start? for example

-Start with triads, and LEanr EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM (whatever this means) THEN and only then, move to _________

Just like a teacher would.


what do you recommend?

 

[Joeytpg]

Dallas, do you know a good website just like musictheory.net but more focused on guitar? I can learn a lot from the BASIC theory but It'd be easier if it was all applied to the fretboard directly.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

Hey Joey,

There are some out there that have scales and stuff lined up, but I think your best option is to learn both at once, if you learn the theory with out the guitar, or the guitar with out the theory it doesn't matter what you know because they wont connect, and when someone plays a G in the key of C you wont be able to go oh hey thats the V chord you know?

I mean try and go through the guitar, and figure out even basic 3 note triad forms and patterns, and know what root notes your starting on and play them in inversions and then build upon that knowledge.

Does that help?

 

[Dallas Marlow]

FYI: Learn the notes on the fretboard asap, remember that 5th fret is the same note as the next string with the exception of the B string which is the 4th fret, and the 7th fret is the octave of the previous string with the exception of the B which is the 8th fret (G). So you can modulate up and down half steps and get a lot just from that you know?

Learning basic scale patterns is a good way too, and also use the octave trick, I'm sure you already know the notes on your low E string from playing bar chords, and remember skip a string and 2 frets up from your index finger is the octave of whatever bass note on your low E, it's one fret different from D to B and G to E, but same concept.

 

[Joeytpg]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

 

[stephen sawall]

You may find this site helpful ..... pretty much covers a lot of stuff. Just place notes on the neck on this one ..... just click where you want notes on the neck.

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/chord_name.php

 

[Joeytpg]

thanks Stephen!

 

[Dallas Marlow]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

 

[Jimmie]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

I know this might sound very elementary and might not apply to anyone else, but one of my biggest weaknesses that continues to hamstring me is in fretboard memorization, knowing what every note is on each string up and down the fretboard just by looking at it, then all the positions of the chords up and down the fretboard, then what scales the chords are derrived from, at least thats where I am at. I should have learned this a long time ago.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

I know this might sound very elementary and might not apply to anyone else, but one of my biggest weaknesses that continues to hamstring me is in fretboard memorization, knowing what every note is on each string up and down the fretboard just by looking at it, then all the positions of the chords up and down the fretboard, then what scales the chords are derrived from, at least thats where I am at. I should have learned this a long time ago.

I'll be the first to admit I struggle with it every day still. I'm a self taught player that's back at school to learn all this stuff, and it's killing me because when I play I think sounds. When my hand on a scale I'm thinking about oh I know if I go here I can get this sound etc., etc., while this is good sometimes, it's not good for a lot of things.

I know what the notes are more solid in some spots than others, like some I instantly know and others it takes a second to kick in, it's kind of like I'm taking two sides of knowledge and combining them which is taking its time... for me at least.

I'm getting there though, playing through chord changes with good voice leading and transitions, I refuse to quit till I can know what the fuck I am doing 100% of the time!

 

[Joeytpg]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

I know this might sound very elementary and might not apply to anyone else, but one of my biggest weaknesses that continues to hamstring me is in fretboard memorization, knowing what every note is on each string up and down the fretboard just by looking at it, then all the positions of the chords up and down the fretboard, then what scales the chords are derrived from, at least thats where I am at. I should have learned this a long time ago.

I'll be the first to admit I struggle with it every day still. I'm a self taught player that's back at school to learn all this stuff, and it's killing me because when I play I think sounds. When my hand on a scale I'm thinking about oh I know if I go here I can get this sound etc., etc., while this is good sometimes, it's not good for a lot of things.

I know what the notes are more solid in some spots than others, like some I instantly know and others it takes a second to kick in, it's kind of like I'm taking two sides of knowledge and combining them which is taking its time... for me at least.

I'm getting there though, playing through chord changes with good voice leading and transitions, I refuse to quit till I can know what the fuck I am doing 100% of the time!

I couldn't have said it better. It's exactly how I feel!

I need to expand my guitar/theory knowledge in order to not only create better music, but to be able to communicate better with experienced musicians.

 

[Jimmie]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

I know this might sound very elementary and might not apply to anyone else, but one of my biggest weaknesses that continues to hamstring me is in fretboard memorization, knowing what every note is on each string up and down the fretboard just by looking at it, then all the positions of the chords up and down the fretboard, then what scales the chords are derrived from, at least thats where I am at. I should have learned this a long time ago.

I'll be the first to admit I struggle with it every day still. I'm a self taught player that's back at school to learn all this stuff, and it's killing me because when I play I think sounds. When my hand on a scale I'm thinking about oh I know if I go here I can get this sound etc., etc., while this is good sometimes, it's not good for a lot of things.

I know what the notes are more solid in some spots than others, like some I instantly know and others it takes a second to kick in, it's kind of like I'm taking two sides of knowledge and combining them which is taking its time... for me at least.

I'm getting there though, playing through chord changes with good voice leading and transitions, I refuse to quit till I can know what the fuck I am doing 100% of the time!

My post disappeared?

long story, short. I have a GIT grad schooling me on this, he's the one that’s guiding me on building my foundation of knowledge up and showing me how it works in the real world aka practical application. For me, boiling it all down takes large blocks of time, not something you do right once or twice and then you've got it. Its a lot like learning calculus, stringing polynomials together, every bracket, every parenthetical has to be in the right place before it adds up into something beautiful. Thanks Dallas

 

[dgaemc2]

I couldn't agree more Jimmie! People, don't expect yourself to really learn music theory quickly. It takes a lot of work to fully understand chords, key signatures, scales, modes, etc. and how it all fits together.

IMO, there isn't a "crash course in chords" and many other things related to music theory. Sure....everybody would like to know everything in a few hours. This anxiousness to know everything quickly is in line with today's world we live in IMO. However, really learning and understanding music theory takes a lot of time no matter what instrument you play.

And I quote, "Rhome wasn't built in a day"........from the movie "The Committments"!

The good news with guitar is that you really don't have to understand music theory at all in order to become a fantastic player.......There are so many fantastic guitar guitar players (past and present) that couldn't even begin to tell you what key, scales, modes, etc. they are playing over a given chord progression.....the just know it sounds great! However, IMO most great guitar players have a very good handle on "patterns" and the application of patterns along the entire fretboard.....even though they may not understand all of the theory behind it all.

Most of all use your ears to what sounds good while playing guitar......many great songs were "discovered" on accident!