Diezel rhythm tones

rabies

rabies

New member
So I am satisfied with the ch 1 clean mode (snappy/poppy) and lead sounds and the Einstein. Still think this amp is horribly loud into even a 212 in studio rehearsal room (approx. 20x20ft). I mean in ch 2 I don't even get the master past 9 o'clock with all other controls at noon. So next time I will simply try a single 12" speaker in the same V30 loaded 212 cab.

So I'm good with the cleans in ch 1 and the lead sounds in ch 2 (great sustain and touch sensitivity).

As far as the rhythm power chord sounds are concerned, I'm not sure I'm liking it but it may be an acquired taste like beers. Not sure. The compression and gain saturation is just different with these diezels apparently. With or w/o a clean boost like OD808. I always use a stock Elitist LP.

It's funny, I was really happy with the rig and my playing (everything the exact same in terms of gear except maybe settings and the rehearsal room) on Sat. but not so happy yesterday. Must be my hands...

I've also noticed I get this whistling sound when I use the TC Electronic chorus/delay patch in the efx loop. This has happened with the Rivera as well so now I'm guessing something is wrong with that patch or unit and it's not a preamp tube issue with microphonics, etc.

I'd really like to love this amp so I don't have to haul my Marshall combo and Rivera all the time (I was previously running both of those simul but it never seemed as ungodly loud as the Einstein)...
 
btw, if i were to pull EL34's, would it be the inner pair or outer pair? and then what's the excpectation? less headroom and less bass?
 
Is it a 100w Einstein?

Diezels do give out some. Even in relatively spacious indoor venues I don't think I've ever taken any of my Diezels much above 10 o clock. That's normal I think.

I wasn't a big fan of CH2. Mode 2 & 3 are where it's at. Before I traded mine in for another VH4, I was on the verge of having it sent over to Peter to revoice Ch2 as an independent clean channel.

If you're finding the amp a bit whoofy, you might want to dial back the deep. Could do with seeing your settings to see how you've got your amp EQ'd.

Could try rolling back pre-amp gain to 12 o clock & adding dirt on the tubescreamer to taste.

If you can, test the amp with another cab w/V30s. The Einstein is a wicked amp and you should be able to get a pretty stellar sound out of it. It's more open than the VH4. I didn't find the CH1 voices compressed personally.
 
100 watts, i'm using a ported 212 genz benz cab but i've ran it with a 412 mesa half open-back cab and that is completely way too loud with a decent tone...
 
Don't pull any power tubes. It's designed to be used with the number of tubes that came in it from the factory. There is no need to pull any tubes anyway.

I use a clean boost in front of everything, a Maxon OD9. I find that my Herbert and VH4 respond especially well to the Maxon.

The Diezel signature gain and compression is something you love or don't love. For those of us that love it, Diezel is the sound I've always wanted, and now have. For those that don't, it can be hard to get used to if you prefer that more of a mid hump, open marshall sound.
 
Curious: what are your settings? You don't necessarily want the channel master up so high. The amp sounds very different if, for example, you leave the channel master barely on and then run the overall master up high versus doing it the other way around (channel master up high, overall master very low). Try both and see.

And how consistent is the power there? If it varies widely (which is somewhat unlikely but possible), that can explain why an amp sometimes sounds different. It could be getting unintentionally "variac'd" some days if the voltage drops too much unexpectedly.
 
cardinal":sw2qrkl0 said:
Curious: what are your settings? You don't necessarily want the channel master up so high. The amp sounds very different if, for example, you leave the channel master barely on and then run the overall master up high versus doing it the other way around (channel master up high, overall master very low). Try both and see.

And how consistent is the power there? If it varies widely (which is somewhat unlikely but possible), that can explain why an amp sometimes sounds different. It could be getting unintentionally "variac'd" some days if the voltage drops too much unexpectedly.
Click to expand...

I've tried settings close to everything at noon except the overall master volume obviously which is between 0.5 to 2 out of 10. I've also tried higher gain settings and maxing out the volume (or channel volume as you refer to it). Also I always use this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRO2500

I did check the bias using a DMM and the external bias pots/probes and one pair of tubes was around 50 mA and the other around 65 mA. So one pair may be biased cooler than recommended I'm guessing. Not sure how dramatic an effect that may have on the response/tone...

diezeleinsteinsettings_zpsca62c988.jpg
 
RJF":ek2hfwzi said:
Don't pull any power tubes. It's designed to be used with the number of tubes that came in it from the factory. There is no need to pull any tubes anyway.

I use a clean boost in front of everything, a Maxon OD9. I find that my Herbert and VH4 respond especially well to the Maxon.

The Diezel signature gain and compression is something you love or don't love. For those of us that love it, Diezel is the sound I've always wanted, and now have. For those that don't, it can be hard to get used to if you prefer that more of a mid hump, open marshall sound.
Click to expand...

Can you please post a link to a pro recording/song from a famous band using Diezel? Ola Englund has some recordings. I know lots of guys use Diezel but the only one I'm familiar with is Tosin Abasi and he actually uses AXE FX afaik with VH4 and another amp simul for the heavy sounds. Tool uses Diezel as well but it's hard to tell what amps these guys are mixing with and layering simul in the studio...
 
I tend to run my channel volumes at no more than noon, deep at 9-11 o clock, presence at 2-3 o clock, bass less than 12 o clock, mids 9 o clock to dimed, treble 1:30 - 2:30 o clock, and master to the level I need it to be at.
 
Rabies: channel volumes are way too high. It'll sound less compressed if you run them lower. Seriously try it with the channel volumes less than 9 o'clock. Actually, to just hear the difference I'm talkin about, turn the overall master up to 12 noon and then adjust the channel master to set the decibel level. It might take just barely turning the channel master on.

If you think the amp is too bass heavy, turn down both the bass and deep. Try turning deep practically off if you want something close to a "Marshall" tone.

And do you have the gain maxed for channel 1 mega mode? I can't imagine that sounds good. There's a lot of gain in that mode, and turning the knob all the way up would be complete overkill.

And for recordings, though Adam Jones of course uses lots of amps in the studio, to me the 10,000 Days album sounds like listening to a VH4 to me. Google Josh Wibaut's Diezel demos to hear what I think are the best representations of Diezel tones on YouTube. If you don't like what you hear, I don't think anyone can help you like the Einstein.
 
I run my pre-amp volumes at 11 o clock max. I find they start getting too aggressive & present post-noon. Compensate by pushing the master. You want to make as much use of the power section as possible.
Gain is set far, far too high on mode 3.
Idea behind a tube-screamer, for me anyway, is that you don't have to push the gain stage of the amp too high and cause it to clip. You should look at backing off the gain to 1 o clock max on both channels and cranking the drive on the tube-screamer to taste, though not excessively. Difficult with the einstein as Mode 2 is often a mode that you might actually want to crank the gain higher than normal. I run the gain on Ch2 of my VH4 pretty high. Like 2 or 3 0 clock or something.
Master & channel EQ settings look fine. I vary the deep between 11 & 1 & never push the presence above 12.
 
Turn the chan vol's max to 12 o'clock. Full is ridiculous! I run it even lower.
Max treble, mids and base to 12, deep max 9 o'clock and pres max to 12. Turn master a little higher.
 
cardinal":nvlaxwgl said:
Rabies: channel volumes are way too high. It'll sound less compressed if you run them lower. Seriously try it with the channel volumes less than 9 o'clock. Actually, to just hear the difference I'm talkin about, turn the overall master up to 12 noon and then adjust the channel master to set the decibel level. It might take just barely turning the channel master on.

If you think the amp is too bass heavy, turn down both the bass and deep. Try turning deep practically off if you want something close to a "Marshall" tone.

And do you have the gain maxed for channel 1 mega mode? I can't imagine that sounds good. There's a lot of gain in that mode, and turning the knob all the way up would be complete overkill.

And for recordings, though Adam Jones of course uses lots of amps in the studio, to me the 10,000 Days album sounds like listening to a VH4 to me. Google Josh Wibaut's Diezel demos to hear what I think are the best representations of Diezel tones on YouTube. If you don't like what you hear, I don't think anyone can help you like the Einstein.
Click to expand...

ok I'll try the low channel master and higher overall master, haven't tried that. I may need to hear another Diezel amp in person b/c I'm pretty sure that my ch 1 in mode 2 or 3 doesn't seem to have the kind of gain in a Marshall or Mesa.
 
Channel 1, mode 2 with the gain maxed should have a touch more gain than a JCM 800. Mode 3 should have a lot of gain even half way up. If you don't think it does, either the amp is malfunctioning somehow or you like absolutely crazy amounts of gain.
 
cardinal":1jbg27li said:
Channel 1, mode 2 with the gain maxed should have a touch more gain than a JCM 800. Mode 3 should have a lot of gain even half way up. If you don't think it does, either the amp is malfunctioning somehow or you like absolutely crazy amounts of gain.
Click to expand...

Ok so now you're comparing it to a JCM 800. But will it have the bite/crunch of a JCM 800 (2205 style like Tom Morello?) Because mine does not.

btw, sometimes I miss NoVA (the bike trails and the snow when I was a kid)...
 
You'll never get a Marshall out of it. Close to it...yes, but everyone has it's own Marshall sound.
 
rabies":23h35wpw said:
cardinal":23h35wpw said:
Channel 1, mode 2 with the gain maxed should have a touch more gain than a JCM 800. Mode 3 should have a lot of gain even half way up. If you don't think it does, either the amp is malfunctioning somehow or you like absolutely crazy amounts of gain.
Click to expand...

Ok so now you're comparing it to a JCM 800. But will it have the bite/crunch of a JCM 800 (2205 style like Tom Morello?) Because mine does not.

btw, sometimes I miss NoVA (the bike trails and the snow when I was a kid)...
Click to expand...

No, the voicing is nothing like a Marshall. It sounds like a Diezel. I was comparing the amount of preamp overdrive available in that mod. Tom Morello uses a Marshall 2205, I believe. I'd use that amp and a Telecatser in drop D if you need his specific tone. The Diezel can get you in the ballpark plus do a heck of a lot more.
 
cardinal":s0ho0hq1 said:
rabies":s0ho0hq1 said:
cardinal":s0ho0hq1 said:
Channel 1, mode 2 with the gain maxed should have a touch more gain than a JCM 800. Mode 3 should have a lot of gain even half way up. If you don't think it does, either the amp is malfunctioning somehow or you like absolutely crazy amounts of gain.
Click to expand...

Ok so now you're comparing it to a JCM 800. But will it have the bite/crunch of a JCM 800 (2205 style like Tom Morello?) Because mine does not.

btw, sometimes I miss NoVA (the bike trails and the snow when I was a kid)...
Click to expand...

No, the voicing is nothing like a Marshall. It sounds like a Diezel. I was comparing the amount of preamp overdrive available in that mod. Tom Morello uses a Marshall 2205, I believe. I'd use that amp and a Telecatser in drop D if you need his specific tone. The Diezel can get you in the ballpark plus do a heck of a lot more.
Click to expand...

2205 clean tone sucks (or sucks worse depending on which year you have). it's good for generic rock and hard rock. Diezel leads and cleans are superior IMHO. I'm just not down yet with the rhythm sound (specifically power chording). Plus the diezels seem to have way more bass on tap than any marshall i've played.
 
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