Mark VII vs IV

MetalHeadMike said:
I must be the only one on this forum that doesn't notice significant difference between tubes (power & pre). I've swapped tubes in over 60 amps and it's been subtle to null. Not saying there isn't an effect when swapping, but to my ears it's very very subtle in most cases. Same goes for bias. I've biased between colder than a witches tit to hotter than hell and don't notice much difference so I always decide to go 60-65%.
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I agree and I’m glad I don’t hear what some guys say they do. Saves me a lot of headaches
 
Everyone seems to like the mark iv/b the most but I’m in the minority here that I prefer the mark iv/a the most. Just seems to have more of that chainsaw badassness top end clarity more akin to a III.

Granted I’d have a hard time justifying a JP2C or a IV/a with my III++ Coli. That amp has no problem with headroom and is the only amp that has no problem causing ear ringing at 1 on the volume. SOAB is loud AF.
 
glpg80 said:
Everyone seems to like the mark iv/b the most but I’m in the minority here that I prefer the mark iv/a the most. Just seems to have more of that chainsaw badassness top end clarity more akin to a III.

Granted I’d have a hard time justifying a JP2C or a IV/a with my III++ Coli. That amp has no problem with headroom and is the only amp that has no problem causing ear ringing at 1 on the volume. SOAB is loud AF.
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You know I love the III++ !
 
Don't the OG Marks use a lot of Carbon Comp and Carbon Film Resistors? I wanna say my V used a lot of Vishay Metal Films. Ola mentioned that the original was noisy as fuck.
Maybe the differences are component type?? Quiet is always good.
 
pipboy90 said:
Nope, this is BS. The Mark VII is one of the best Mesa amps to come out in recent memory. The Mark IV is very limited in usage and tones in comparison to the VII.





The narrative that every old amp is magically better than new amps is overused.
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This is not a true statement in my opinion. There is magic in these old amps from the components that they used at the time.

And when playing early marks, especially the Mark III, I do not get ear fatigue, like I do with the newer marks. The tone is more complex with special overtones and different feedback sound.
 
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Markedman said:
This is not a true statement in my opinion. There is magic in these old amps from the components that they used at the time.

And when playing early marks, especially the Mark III, I do not get ear fatigue, like I do with the newer marks. The tone is more complex with special overtones and different feedback sound.
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That’s fine, everyone hears things differently. I haven’t gotten any ear fatigue from using the VII, and I’m prone to that because I have tinnitus in my left ear.

As far as I’m concerned the mark IV mode on the VII and the Mark IV lead channel have a max 10% difference in sound, as seen in this video:

And this one:

And Fluff’s video:


Any perceived difference will get lost in a mix.

I also don’t understand the “push” factor that the Mark VII apparently lacks. If you turn it up and it’s not pushing air, you’re doing something wrong. Maybe you drowned the signal in gain and squished it into a compressed mess? There is more gain available on the VII than the IV, so it’s easier to get carried away. I can move air with a Friedman BE deluxe pedal into a solid state Marshall head into a 4x12. This is not something that only old amps can do, so I find that a really flimsy argument in favor of the IV.
 
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pipboy90 said:
That’s fine, everyone hears things differently. I haven’t gotten any ear fatigue from using the VII, and I’m prone to that because I have tinnitus in my left ear.

As far as I’m concerned the mark IV mode on the VII and the Mark IV lead channel have a max 10% difference in sound, as seen in this video:

And this one:

And Fluff’s video:


Any perceived difference will get lost in a mix.

I also don’t understand the “push” factor that the Mark VII apparently lacks. If you turn it up and it’s not pushing air, you’re doing something wrong. Maybe you drowned the signal in gain and squished it into a compressed mess? There is more gain available on the VII than the IV, so it’s easier to get carried away. I can move air with a Friedman BE deluxe pedal into a solid state Marshall head into a 4x12. This is not something that only old amps can do, so I find that a really flimsy argument in favor of the IV.
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This is a hard thing to explain; but what I notice is: some amps get loud, but don't 'hit' you like others can. Maybe it's higher power PTs/plate voltage? The NFB circuit? Not exactly sure, but an EVH doesn't hit me when loud, like an old Marshall or Mesa Mark/early Recto can, SLO, Naylor, are some others that I've had. VHT Deliverance also hits like a freight train, Wizards as well....
 
Candiria said:
The VII if you need to cover a bunch of different styles/tones.

The IV if you really just want the lead channel.

Pretty much the same story as the IV vs V, but the VII is easier to dial in and get good tones than the V.
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All of this is true.
 
pipboy90 said:
That’s fine, everyone hears things differently. I haven’t gotten any ear fatigue from using the VII, and I’m prone to that because I have tinnitus in my left ear.

As far as I’m concerned the mark IV mode on the VII and the Mark IV lead channel have a max 10% difference in sound, as seen in this video:

And this one:

And Fluff’s video:


Any perceived difference will get lost in a mix.

I also don’t understand the “push” factor that the Mark VII apparently lacks. If you turn it up and it’s not pushing air, you’re doing something wrong. Maybe you drowned the signal in gain and squished it into a compressed mess? There is more gain available on the VII than the IV, so it’s easier to get carried away. I can move air with a Friedman BE deluxe pedal into a solid state Marshall head into a 4x12. This is not something that only old amps can do, so I find that a really flimsy argument in favor of the IV.
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I had the IV and the VII both sitting on top of a 412 and both amps had effectively the same tone & volume dialed. I went back & forth between them many times dialing, and while yes the sound that a close mic would pick up is 90% the same, the amount of air that is moving form each amp is so different that it's shocking. Think of it as the pressure that the speakers are imparting against your skin. It's something a guy just has to experience for himself since it's not "recordable".
 
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pipboy90 said:
Nope, this is BS. The Mark VII is one of the best Mesa amps to come out in recent memory. The Mark IV is very limited in usage and tones in comparison to the VII.





The narrative that every old amp is magically better than new amps is overused.
Click to expand...

that sounds great!
 
GJgo said:
I had the IV and the VII both sitting on top of a 412 and both amps had effectively the same tone & volume dialed. I went back & forth between them many times dialing, and while yes the sound that a close mic would pick up is 90% the same, the amount of air that is moving form each amp is so different that it's shocking. Think of it as the pressure that the speakers are imparting against your skin. It's something a guy just has to experience for himself since it's not "recordable".
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Thanks for explaining, that makes more sense.
 
I think I'm going to grab a Mark III next as far as Mark series goes. Just keep the IV and maybe grab a vii or jp2c somewhere down the road.

After posting this I spent a good bit of time playing the iv(I've been playing the atla non stop since i got it at the expense of playing my other amps). Everytime I think of selling it I forget that thought after playing the iv. Sending mine off to Mesa in the next day or two. I'm going to miss if for the next 4-6 weeks
 
Racerxrated said:
This is a hard thing to explain; but what I notice is: some amps get loud, but don't 'hit' you like others can. Maybe it's higher power PTs/plate voltage? The NFB circuit? Not exactly sure, but an EVH doesn't hit me when loud, like an old Marshall or Mesa Mark/early Recto can, SLO, Naylor, are some others that I've had. VHT Deliverance also hits like a freight train, Wizards as well....
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I totally get what you are saying and if you have played enough amps, vintage through modern, you will know it is absolutely a thing. Along with actually feeling like the amp is physically "hitting" you when at volume, there is also a weight to the note that is there. Like....a big, thumpy, weight to the note that just flies out of the speaker and punches you.

All those amps you mentioned have that. When I think of amps "pushing air" like that, first amp that comes to mind is my dad's early 70's Plexi. My old Hiwatts did that as well. For modern amps, my Wizards do it.
 
VHTStark said:
I totally get what you are saying and if you have played enough amps, vintage through modern, you will know it is absolutely a thing. Along with actually feeling like the amp is physically "hitting" you when at volume, there is also a weight to the note that is there. Like....a big, thumpy, weight to the note that just flies out of the speaker and punches you.

All those amps you mentioned have that. When I think of amps "pushing air" like that, first amp that comes to mind is my dad's early 70's Plexi. My old Hiwatts did that as well. For modern amps, my Wizards do it.
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Wizards get the whole room moving
 
MetalHeadMike said:
I must be the only one on this forum that doesn't notice significant difference between tubes (power & pre). I've swapped tubes in over 60 amps and it's been subtle to null. Not saying there isn't an effect when swapping, but to my ears it's very very subtle in most cases. Same goes for bias. I've biased between colder than a witches tit to hotter than hell and don't notice much difference so I always decide to go 60-65%.
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I’m not sure how loud you play but it’s fairly noticeable when you crank volumes at 11:00 and above. You won’t hardly notice any difference at all at bedroom volumes. Same goes for bias.

Also higher bias definitely equates to a warmer tone and can get way too mushy if you over do it. I also found that biasing up to 70% does NOT apply to all amps as it can turn your amp tone into a shit pot pie. Sometimes as low as 30-40% is the sweet spot.
 
PurityS.L.G said:
I’m not sure how loud you play but it’s fairly noticeable when you crank volumes at 11:00 and above. You won’t hardly notice any difference at all at bedroom volumes. Same goes for bias.

Also higher bias definitely equates to a warmer tone and can get way too mushy if you over do it. I also found that biasing up to 70% does NOT apply to all amps as it can turn your amp tone into a shit pot pie. Sometimes as low as 30-40% is the sweet spot.
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@PurityS.L.G good point. Most Mesa's are biased very cold. The stock bias point on my old Badlander 100 was 15ma.

Most EL34 amps run around 34ma. Not sure why it was biased to 15ma, but the tubes lasted long and sounded good.
 
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