Scott Henderson Sounds off on Internet/Music Business

[70strathead]

 

[Code001]

Downloading an album is the same as holding someone up at gunpoint and robbing them?

 

[Anonymous]

Downloading an album is the same as holding someone up at gunpoint and robbing them?

He's being extreme, of course, but I get what he's saying and understand his frustration. In both cases someone is taking money out of your pocket illegally. Of course, using a deadly weapon is different, but stealing someone's work is still bullshit. I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back. The only way to make money is playing live now...

Steve

 

[Meathead]

I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back. The only way to make money is playing live now...

Steve

When you play out live, your audience is right there in front of you. Do what some smart artists are doing, get their money!

A CD is real cheap to make. Add an extra $5 - $10 to the admission price and hand out a CD to everyone that has paid to see you play. If you play to a lot of people in a year you'll sell a ton CD's.
Then let Billboard know how many albums you've sold and watch your CD shoot up the charts.

 

[Anonymous]

I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back. The only way to make money is playing live now...

Steve

When you play out live, your audience is right there in front of you. Do what some smart artists are doing, get their money!

A CD is real cheap to make. Add an extra $5 - $10 to the admission price and hand out a CD to everyone that has paid to see you play. If you play to a lot of people in a year you'll sell a ton CD's.
Then let Billboard know how many albums you've sold and watch your CD shoot up the charts.

What I see bands doing is charging $20 more for admission and handing out nothing.

Nobody wants a CD and no one wants a whole album anymore (except other musicians). They just want the one song they decided they like and they want it for free. What is the point of making and handing out a CD?

Steve

 

[mixohoytian]

Nobody wants a CD and no one wants a whole album anymore (except other musicians).
Steve[/quote]

I wish I was around when non musicians liked albums

 

[squealie]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

 

[Anonymous]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

You're right - no one is going to stop downloading music...

HOWEVER... while I have no horse in this race, and as such, really don't care, IMO stealing someone's hard work is fucked. Pure and simple. There is nothing debatable about that. I don't care how poor you are - you don't steal other people's work and take the bread out of their family's mouth.

He's drinking a glass of red wine, btw...

Steve

 

[Strat+Marshall]

Downloading an album is the same as holding someone up at gunpoint and robbing them?

He's being extreme, of course, but I get what he's saying and understand his frustration. In both cases someone is taking money out of your pocket illegally. Of course, using a deadly weapon is different, but stealing someone's work is still bullshit. I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back. The only way to make money is playing live now...

Steve

I agree with you that stealing someone's work is still stealing. However, I think you could make a better argument that the state of live music is the real problem. With the availability of music on the internet, it is pretty safe to say that the whole point of making an album is a promotional tool for any smaller or mid level act. They need to make their money on the road. The album should just be getting people excited to see them on their next tour.

Nobody wants a CD and no one wants a whole album anymore (except other musicians). They just want the one song they decided they like and they want it for free. What is the point of making and handing out a CD?

Steve

This does not apply to Henderson. There aren't any teeny boppers downloading "just the one song I like". It is pretty true for the more mainstream stuff.

 

[Digital Jams]

Yeah this has been debated for years and will never change but regardless you are stealing their work. I laugh at the "fans" of artists that just post where leaks are at so that people can score the cd for free. Fans like that who needs enemies.

In the end the music business knew this was coming for YEARS and sat on their hands and did nothing, they had time to figure it out and never did.

 

[degenaro]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

And being a guitar god and a buck will get him some coffee at 7/11.
Bottom line is that unless you're a Rock star or young enough to like living on some one else's couch chances are you won't make enough money to be considered in the "music business".
So, yeah when you spent money on product and end up loosing money because folks decide to distribute your stuff for free I get why he's sore.
I'm at the point where I actually change my take on it. These days any product to me is merely a calling card that hopefully will lead to paid work.
Actually come to think of it, I agree with a friend of mine that if you're not having your stuff tossed around on the blogs linking to rapidshre etc you're not relevant.

That said here's what pisses me off...
I can't get itunes or CD baby to sell my downloadable stuff at the bit rate I want. Yet I can find it as a free down load high rez files, or at the worst 256 or 320 kbit mp3. Now that fucking blows, folks that are willing to pay get the crap sounding copy, yet if ya wanna rip me off you get to actually have a nice sounding version.

And yes, until a new delivery format is found this industry will suffer. Then again, the fringe stuff like guitar god records used to sell 5000 copies...now they do 500.

 

[MOAAH]

I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back.

While that maybe true, the fact is that anyone with a PC can make a CD these days. Try doing that back in the day. Back then we could only dream about what we have today.

 

[squealie]

I'm at the point where I actually change my take on it. These days any product to me is merely a calling card that hopefully will lead to paid work.
Actually come to think of it, I agree with a friend of mine that if you're not having your stuff tossed around on the blogs linking to rapidshre etc you're not relevant.

That's my take. 20 years ago, the only way to get heard, was to be on college radio, or buy some attention in the appropriate music rag. ....Unless you were cranking out hits, and had a huge marketing campaign on AOR.

Every hapless fuck on the planet now has worldwide distribution. Thank you Internet. The downside, is that there is a bottomless sea of hapless fucks. And the guy (read Henderson) who was selling 5000 copies 20 years ago, is now selling 500, because he's in the sea too.

20 years ago, being a guitar genius, kinda guaranteed you could eek out a living. It's not as relevant, rare, or as monetarily valuable as it once was. Time was, when a blacksmith could write his own ticket. Now we have Home Depot.

Henderson wants his money? Strap on a headset mic, some AutoTune, and learn how to shake that ass bitch.

Sarcastic, but my point is, that the old model, is ....old.

 

[Suhr]

I feel bad for musicians these days because music is free now and there is no going back. The only way to make money is playing live now...

Steve

When you play out live, your audience is right there in front of you. Do what some smart artists are doing, get their money!

A CD is real cheap to make. Add an extra $5 - $10 to the admission price and hand out a CD to everyone that has paid to see you play. If you play to a lot of people in a year you'll sell a ton CD's.
Then let Billboard know how many albums you've sold and watch your CD shoot up the charts.

Because of pirating Concert tickets have jump into the 100s if not 1000s for good tickets.
FYI I dont know of anyone who tours as much as Scott does.
People should pay for tunes or subscribe to Rhapsody. They are the property of the musician

 

[Variable]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

You're right - no one is going to stop downloading music...

HOWEVER... while I have no horse in this race, and as such, really don't care, IMO stealing someone's hard work is fucked. Pure and simple. There is nothing debatable about that. I don't care how poor you are - you don't steal other people's work and take the bread out of their family's mouth.

He's drinking a glass of red wine, btw...

Steve

Guys, please stop using the word "stealing". Because, by definition, downloading music is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement.

You cannot prove that the person who downloaded the music was actually going to buy the album. Therefore, it is NOT a lost sale. In fact, it's possible that the person who downloaded that music illegally may actually go out and BUY the album if they like it. Heck, I've bought some albums on vinyl that I also have on MP3 from downloads. That's like a $30+ sale (sometimes more depending on the rarity of the album) that would never have happened if I hadn't listened to it in MP3 first to see if it was good or not.

Walking into a music store and taking CDs Empire Records style IS stealing. It is the acquiring of material property without paying for it. MP3s are not material property, they are intellectual, and as such fall under an entirely different set of (sometimes even more unfair) rules. For example, I could download MP3s and go to court with the RIAA, where they would literally try to ruin me financially (think upwards of $100000+ in "punitive" damages for as little as an album's worth of MP3s). However, I could go into a music store, steal a CD, and walk away with a pittance in fines, and if I'm extremely unlucky, a few days jail-time and some probation.

Unless you're selling hundreds of thousands of records, you're going to make significantly more money touring than selling CDs. My mom knows a band in Wisconsin that made $2000 for a piss-easy gig at a restaurant. They're not huge, they aren't selling millions of CDs. But that's a lot of coin for a couple hours work.

Personally, with my band I would throw the music up on iTunes and give CDs away for free just to promote. I don't care if people spread our music; more people listening means more people likely to come to our shows. More popularity = bigger gigs = more exposure = more money from ticket sales. Album sales are a bonus.

But that is just my opinion. For me, I only care about making the music and people having access to it in any way possible. If that means I give my stuff away for free, fine. That doesn't mean we can't sell CDs at a show, or make money with gigs, etc.

And with services like Slacker Radio and Pandora... honestly, musicians need to stop deluding themselves that album sales are going to make them rich. Heck, once you become more focused on getting rich rather than making a good living doing something you love, I think you've missed the point anyway.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

I at all my free Metallica downloads

 

[degenaro]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

You're right - no one is going to stop downloading music...

HOWEVER... while I have no horse in this race, and as such, really don't care, IMO stealing someone's hard work is fucked. Pure and simple. There is nothing debatable about that. I don't care how poor you are - you don't steal other people's work and take the bread out of their family's mouth.

He's drinking a glass of red wine, btw...

Steve

Guys, please stop using the word "stealing". Because, by definition, downloading music is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement.

You cannot prove that the person who downloaded the music was actually going to buy the album. Therefore, it is NOT a lost sale. In fact, it's possible that the person who downloaded that music illegally may actually go out and BUY the album if they like it. Heck, I've bought some albums on vinyl that I also have on MP3 from downloads. That's like a $30+ sale (sometimes more depending on the rarity of the album) that would never have happened if I hadn't listened to it in MP3 first to see if it was good or not.

Walking into a music store and taking CDs Empire Records style IS stealing. It is the acquiring of material property without paying for it. MP3s are not material property, they are intellectual, and as such fall under an entirely different set of (sometimes even more unfair) rules. For example, I could download MP3s and go to court with the RIAA, where they would literally try to ruin me financially (think upwards of $100000+ in "punitive" damages for as little as an album's worth of MP3s). However, I could go into a music store, steal a CD, and walk away with a pittance in fines, and if I'm extremely unlucky, a few days jail-time and some probation.

Unless you're selling hundreds of thousands of records, you're going to make significantly more money touring than selling CDs. My mom knows a band in Wisconsin that made $2000 for a piss-easy gig at a restaurant. They're not huge, they aren't selling millions of CDs. But that's a lot of coin for a couple hours work.

Personally, with my band I would throw the music up on iTunes and give CDs away for free just to promote. I don't care if people spread our music; more people listening means more people likely to come to our shows. More popularity = bigger gigs = more exposure = more money from ticket sales. Album sales are a bonus.

But that is just my opinion. For me, I only care about making the music and people having access to it in any way possible. If that means I give my stuff away for free, fine. That doesn't mean we can't sell CDs at a show, or make money with gigs, etc.

And with services like Slacker Radio and Pandora... honestly, musicians need to stop deluding themselves that album sales are going to make them rich. Heck, once you become more focused on getting rich rather than making a good living doing something you love, I think you've missed the point anyway.

I don't think any one is expecting to get rich of sales in Henderson's genre. However, where does it end...when folks quit recording because they can't recoup what they spent?

And no an mp3 is not intelectual property, the song is. Regardless what medium it gets delivered as.

 

[degenaro]

I'm at the point where I actually change my take on it. These days any product to me is merely a calling card that hopefully will lead to paid work.
Actually come to think of it, I agree with a friend of mine that if you're not having your stuff tossed around on the blogs linking to rapidshre etc you're not relevant.

That's my take. 20 years ago, the only way to get heard, was to be on college radio, or buy some attention in the appropriate music rag. ....Unless you were cranking out hits, and had a huge marketing campaign on AOR.

Every hapless fuck on the planet now has worldwide distribution. Thank you Internet. The downside, is that there is a bottomless sea of hapless fucks. And the guy (read Henderson) who was selling 5000 copies 20 years ago, is now selling 500, because he's in the sea too.

20 years ago, being a guitar genius, kinda guaranteed you could eek out a living. It's not as relevant, rare, or as monetarily valuable as it once was. Time was, when a blacksmith could write his own ticket. Now we have Home Depot.

Henderson wants his money? Strap on a headset mic, some AutoTune, and learn how to shake that ass bitch.

Sarcastic, but my point is, that the old model, is ....old.

Tru dat...I've been saying been saying for a while that guitar is gonna go the way of the dinosaur...I mean saxophone. There was a time when sax was THE hip thing on the band stand, the 60s and guitar changed that. If it wasn't for the Guitar Hero franchise it already may have happened.

On a side note, all the bitching about down loads and that the money is in touring...
That kinda shit fucking slays me, when we have guys that have done 6 dates in a van and netted a couple 100 bucks each...I've done Country for almost 3 years for money, and done about 100 shows a year, with like 40 of them back to back over 8 weeks each year...and while it was good money netting me anywhere between 250 and 750 a gig it shure as heck wasn't enough to live off.
And while I'm renting, I really like, and by like I mean hate middle aged hobby guys playing gigs for free. Fuck, I hate that damn near as much as any non Union gig.

 

[Variable]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

You're right - no one is going to stop downloading music...

HOWEVER... while I have no horse in this race, and as such, really don't care, IMO stealing someone's hard work is fucked. Pure and simple. There is nothing debatable about that. I don't care how poor you are - you don't steal other people's work and take the bread out of their family's mouth.

He's drinking a glass of red wine, btw...

Steve

Guys, please stop using the word "stealing". Because, by definition, downloading music is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement.

You cannot prove that the person who downloaded the music was actually going to buy the album. Therefore, it is NOT a lost sale. In fact, it's possible that the person who downloaded that music illegally may actually go out and BUY the album if they like it. Heck, I've bought some albums on vinyl that I also have on MP3 from downloads. That's like a $30+ sale (sometimes more depending on the rarity of the album) that would never have happened if I hadn't listened to it in MP3 first to see if it was good or not.

Walking into a music store and taking CDs Empire Records style IS stealing. It is the acquiring of material property without paying for it. MP3s are not material property, they are intellectual, and as such fall under an entirely different set of (sometimes even more unfair) rules. For example, I could download MP3s and go to court with the RIAA, where they would literally try to ruin me financially (think upwards of $100000+ in "punitive" damages for as little as an album's worth of MP3s). However, I could go into a music store, steal a CD, and walk away with a pittance in fines, and if I'm extremely unlucky, a few days jail-time and some probation.

Unless you're selling hundreds of thousands of records, you're going to make significantly more money touring than selling CDs. My mom knows a band in Wisconsin that made $2000 for a piss-easy gig at a restaurant. They're not huge, they aren't selling millions of CDs. But that's a lot of coin for a couple hours work.

Personally, with my band I would throw the music up on iTunes and give CDs away for free just to promote. I don't care if people spread our music; more people listening means more people likely to come to our shows. More popularity = bigger gigs = more exposure = more money from ticket sales. Album sales are a bonus.

But that is just my opinion. For me, I only care about making the music and people having access to it in any way possible. If that means I give my stuff away for free, fine. That doesn't mean we can't sell CDs at a show, or make money with gigs, etc.

And with services like Slacker Radio and Pandora... honestly, musicians need to stop deluding themselves that album sales are going to make them rich. Heck, once you become more focused on getting rich rather than making a good living doing something you love, I think you've missed the point anyway.

I don't think any one is expecting to get rich of sales in Henderson's genre. However, where does it end...when folks quit recording because they can't recoup what they spent?

And no an mp3 is not intelectual property, the song is. Regardless what medium it gets delivered as.

I stand corrected. My point is that you're not physically "stealing" something. You're committing copyright infringement. There's a big difference as far as the law is concerned.

I don't think folks will stop recording. Hell, my band is going to record soon. Do I expect explosive album sales? Not really. But I do expect to have another medium through which we can reach people who are interested in hearing us. And despite piracy, iTunes sales seem to be doing just fine.

 

[stephen sawall]

Things have changed forever. Just wonder whats next ?