Sweep picking

[threadkiller]

I need some help with sweep picking. I suck. I've been trying and I can get it clean with 16th notes at a blazing 92bpm. I can't seem to get the motion. I can do the bottom four strings pretty fast but if I expand up to all 6 strings it gets uneven and sloppy. My picking hand and fretting hand are all tense and stiff so I've made an effort to relax both but I can't seem to get the right movement going. I'm just sweeping major and minor triads, nothing fancy. Any advice or resources I can use to get better at this technique.

 

[johnny q]

Why not buy an instructional DVD or book from the sweep picking master himself?

http://www.frankgambale.com/books.php

 

[just42dave]

patience

 

[sinfish]

Patience, Patience, Patience, It will not come over night.

Slow and steady to a metronome so that there are no mistakes at all and you are completely relaxed. If you have to do it at 40bpm that is fine. Practicing the run perfect at 40bpm if far more effective than sloppy at 120bpm. Emphasize the count. Try rotating your pick downward a bit and maybe try bringing your picking arm down the back of the guitar just a little bit. So the wrist is a little better aligned with the strings yet still able to palm mute.

But If the arm thing feels too foreign scratch it. You don't want to introduce new problems and everyone's form is different.

 

[threadkiller]

Thanks for the good replies. It was actually a Frank Gambale video (chopbuilder) that got me started working on this.

 

[BeZo]

You have to be able to play it perfectly slow before you can ever play it perfectly fast. Too many practice speed and prey for accuracy. You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

I'm still running into the same problem. I can do 3 string sweeps fairly well, but moving up to 4 or 5 string sweeps I become uneven. When I look back, I practiced the quick 3 string sweep a fuck-ton and haven't practiced 4 or 5 sting sweeps much. It just takes time and practice. You'll get it.

 

[threadkiller]

I've worked up to 100 bpm now This is a lot harder than it looks.

 

[degenaro]

[No message]

 

[Fenderoid]

The key to sweep is t rest the pick at the string that follows the motion s that u get a consistent one way motion.Try that at very low tempo playing quarter notes.And f course be patient

 

[threadkiller]

The key to sweep is t rest the pick at the string that follows the motion s that u get a consistent one way motion.Try that at very low tempo playing quarter notes.And f course be patient

This is very helpful, thanks.

 

[Tungus]

Same issue I had. I was getting frustrated and impatient but 1 day, out of the blue...... it all just clicked.
Patience is the key. It will happen.

 

[glpg80]

You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

You'll get it.

+ to all of this

with sweep picking, its all about playing lightly and without much effort at the end of the day - practice using a light finger touch approach and not "with a heavy hand"

right hand technique is as much important as left hand technique. when starting to go up the fretboard vertically starting on the high e, always start with a downpick and then slide up. when starting at the low e going down, start with an up stroke and slide down. the sliding motion should be uniform with the finger motion and the time that you change notes with your fingers dictates how long that note will ring out - by not pressing on the note for too long, you're automatically muting the notes you do not want to play. noise is controlled on open strings by sweeping your right hand across the note just after you fret the next following note in the arpeggio.

what really gets fun is when you start mixing tap and tap+slides with arpeggio sweeps. that takes alot of practice as it takes you out of your comfort zone of having your hand next to the bridge.

no matter where you are - get rid of the metronome for now and practice very very very slow, make sure you practice correct technique, dont practice your mistakes or you will play your mistakes - its all about control and doing it lightly/effortlessly and smoothly.

its has everything to do with technique and what works for you in how you hold your pick.

 

[degenaro]

You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

You'll get it.

+ to all of this

with sweep picking, its all about playing lightly and without much effort at the end of the day - practice using a light finger touch approach and not "with a heavy hand"

right hand technique is as much important as left hand technique. when starting to go up the fretboard vertically starting on the high e, always start with a downpick and then slide up. when starting at the low e going down, start with an up stroke and slide down. the sliding motion should be uniform with the finger motion and the time that you change notes with your fingers dictates how long that note will ring out - by not pressing on the note for too long, you're automatically muting the notes you do not want to play. noise is controlled on open strings by sweeping your right hand across the note just after you fret the next following note in the arpeggio.

what really gets fun is when you start mixing tap and tap+slides with arpeggio sweeps. that takes alot of practice as it takes you out of your comfort zone of having your hand next to the bridge.

no matter where you are - get rid of the metronome for now and practice very very very slow, make sure you practice correct technique, dont practice your mistakes or you will play your mistakes - its all about control and doing it lightly/effortlessly and smoothly.

its has everything to do with technique and what works for you in how you hold your pick.

You had me until the "toss the metronome comment". Why?
The technique, or any technique for that matter will NEVER get absorbed correct when practicing it without any meaningful reference. That is why sweeping 16ths stuff at 90 bpm is harder than 16th triplets at 120. Because if you don't have the technique down what saves you at faster speed is that you can just slop through it by targeting down beats. But maybe there's something I'm not getting...
For that matter the two things that I come to realize that are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN TIME ON THE INSTRUMENT IS internalizing rhythm...(put a metronome on your iphone and drive around with a click track singing rhythms to the click)...and spedning time on ear training.

 

[threadkiller]

Thanks for all the good stuff. Keep it coming. I'm getting a little better, but man... I'm no Gambale or Yngwie. It's tough to practice something you suck at. It's a lot easier to play stuff I already can play.

 

[glpg80]

You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

You'll get it.

+ to all of this

with sweep picking, its all about playing lightly and without much effort at the end of the day - practice using a light finger touch approach and not "with a heavy hand"

right hand technique is as much important as left hand technique. when starting to go up the fretboard vertically starting on the high e, always start with a downpick and then slide up. when starting at the low e going down, start with an up stroke and slide down. the sliding motion should be uniform with the finger motion and the time that you change notes with your fingers dictates how long that note will ring out - by not pressing on the note for too long, you're automatically muting the notes you do not want to play. noise is controlled on open strings by sweeping your right hand across the note just after you fret the next following note in the arpeggio.

what really gets fun is when you start mixing tap and tap+slides with arpeggio sweeps. that takes alot of practice as it takes you out of your comfort zone of having your hand next to the bridge.

no matter where you are - get rid of the metronome for now and practice very very very slow, make sure you practice correct technique, dont practice your mistakes or you will play your mistakes - its all about control and doing it lightly/effortlessly and smoothly.

its has everything to do with technique and what works for you in how you hold your pick.

You had me until the "toss the metronome comment". Why?
The technique, or any technique for that matter will NEVER get absorbed correct when practicing it without any meaningful reference. That is why sweeping 16ths stuff at 90 bpm is harder than 16th triplets at 120. Because if you don't have the technique down what saves you at faster speed is that you can just slop through it by targeting down beats. But maybe there's something I'm not getting...
For that matter the two things that I come to realize that are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN TIME ON THE INSTRUMENT IS internalizing rhythm...(put a metronome on your iphone and drive around with a click track singing rhythms to the click)...and spedning time on ear training.

if you noticed the next few words, it is practice very very very slowly. so slow a metronome wont help you. you need to get the technique down and the feel of it down first, and then worry about repetative practice using a metronome and applying it in a beat.

if you practice it slowly but with a heavy hand then it wont matter that you know rhythm or can apply it - you will never be able to do it cleanly when changing hand and finger positions at the same time. its extremely important to get this feeling thing down and understand fluidity with sweep picking. it is definately something that has to be practiced properly or you will develop improper technique and therefore limit yourself - these are things that need attention without a metronome at first. you have to walk before you can run.

if you cannot get this feeling down, no matter how fast you are you will find out your limits very quick trying to speed things up. develop it properly from the start - and the speed will come on its own since sweep picking is a fluid mechanic feeling. the next hardest thing to tackle for me, is expanding your arpeggio vocabulary so that you can apply it in beats in songs and make the arpeggios match the song - instead of playing some random arpeggio you might know that does not belong there in a musical sense at all.

with this, comes even more important notes on the technique i mentioned. the habbits you develop will transfer to all modal forms of arpeggios - it is best to concentrate on them now and not in the future.

ear training? thats a whole different topic in itself - its insanely important with anything you do - vocals, guitar, tuning, rhythm, etc

 

[degenaro]

You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

You'll get it.

+ to all of this

with sweep picking, its all about playing lightly and without much effort at the end of the day - practice using a light finger touch approach and not "with a heavy hand"

right hand technique is as much important as left hand technique. when starting to go up the fretboard vertically starting on the high e, always start with a downpick and then slide up. when starting at the low e going down, start with an up stroke and slide down. the sliding motion should be uniform with the finger motion and the time that you change notes with your fingers dictates how long that note will ring out - by not pressing on the note for too long, you're automatically muting the notes you do not want to play. noise is controlled on open strings by sweeping your right hand across the note just after you fret the next following note in the arpeggio.

what really gets fun is when you start mixing tap and tap+slides with arpeggio sweeps. that takes alot of practice as it takes you out of your comfort zone of having your hand next to the bridge.

no matter where you are - get rid of the metronome for now and practice very very very slow, make sure you practice correct technique, dont practice your mistakes or you will play your mistakes - its all about control and doing it lightly/effortlessly and smoothly.

its has everything to do with technique and what works for you in how you hold your pick.

You had me until the "toss the metronome comment". Why?
The technique, or any technique for that matter will NEVER get absorbed correct when practicing it without any meaningful reference. That is why sweeping 16ths stuff at 90 bpm is harder than 16th triplets at 120. Because if you don't have the technique down what saves you at faster speed is that you can just slop through it by targeting down beats. But maybe there's something I'm not getting...
For that matter the two things that I come to realize that are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN TIME ON THE INSTRUMENT IS internalizing rhythm...(put a metronome on your iphone and drive around with a click track singing rhythms to the click)...and spedning time on ear training.

if you noticed the next few words, it is practice very very very slowly. so slow a metronome wont help you. you need to get the technique down and the feel of it down first, and then worry about repetative practice using a metronome and applying it in a beat.

if you practice it slowly but with a heavy hand then it wont matter that you know rhythm or can apply it - you will never be able to do it cleanly when changing hand and finger positions at the same time. its extremely important to get this feeling thing down and understand fluidity with sweep picking. it is definately something that has to be practiced properly or you will develop improper technique and therefore limit yourself - these are things that need attention without a metronome at first. you have to walk before you can run.

if you cannot get this feeling down, no matter how fast you are you will find out your limits very quick trying to speed things up. develop it properly from the start - and the speed will come on its own since sweep picking is a fluid mechanic feeling. the next hardest thing to tackle for me, is expanding your arpeggio vocabulary so that you can apply it in beats in songs and make the arpeggios match the song - instead of playing some random arpeggio you might know that does not belong there in a musical sense at all.

with this, comes even more important notes on the technique i mentioned. the habbits you develop will transfer to all modal forms of arpeggios - it is best to concentrate on them now and not in the future.

ear training? thats a whole different topic in itself - its insanely important with anything you do - vocals, guitar, tuning, rhythm, etc

You can get the feel for the pick motion, the rolling left hand fingertips and the syncronisation in a matter of one lesson...at least my students have. The attack can be heavy or light and will sound different but most certainly not change that you can bring it up to speed.
And yes setting the metronome to say 50 bpm and playing 16th makes perfect sense to get the technique together onve the motion bit is understood.

agree on the stuff has to be in muscle memory to be sped up.

As for arpeggios...now we're way opposite on that one...Matching?!?!?!?! Like what an A major or A dominant 7 arp over an A7 chord?
I rather drive a screwdriver into my earhole. IMnotsoHO where it's at is to learn how to use a limted amount of information in a variety of ways...i.e. a m7b5 arp up a third will get you a a dominant 8 sound. as in Bm7b5 arpeggio over G spells out a G9 arpeggio.
Just like a a diminished 7 down a a whole or up a half will give you a 7b9 sound as in F diminished over E =E7b9
Em against C=Cmaj7 sound
E7 against C=Camj7#5 sound, etc, etc...
And agreed on the random part...

 

[dfrattaroli]

Sweep picking is hard for me too. Although, honestly, I hate the typical type of sweeping that's normally associated with shred. I instead have incorporated it into my "regular" playing whether I'm playing fast or slow. In any case, as far as the sweep picking in the strict sense of the word is considered, it was always, and still is, hard for me to angle the pick when I'm raking up towards the bass strings. My wrist just doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So, with the pick at the wrong angle, it's hard to come back to the bass strings for me. No biggie. The time I spend working on it means it's still "seeping" into my technique in it's own way. Which is probably what we all really want to do.

 

[degenaro]

Sweep picking is hard for me too. Although, honestly, I hate the typical type of sweeping that's normally associated with shred. I instead have incorporated it into my "regular" playing whether I'm playing fast or slow. In any case, as far as the sweep picking in the strict sense of the word is considered, it was always, and still is, hard for me to angle the pick when I'm raking up towards the bass strings. My wrist just doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So, with the pick at the wrong angle, it's hard to come back to the bass strings for me. No biggie. The time I spend working on it means it's still "seeping" into my technique in it's own way. Which is probably what we all really want to do.

Pick angle...
Here's the deal there are 3 ways to hit a string with the pick, straight on, angled with the front, angled with the back.
All of it will work. On up strokes the friction staight on will be higher but that doesn't mean you can use it like that. The biggest thing my students have to over come is their grip on the pick not being firm enough. The "how hard you hit the string" part is less of an issue when then movement of the pick becomes an actual extension of the right hand instead of a piece of plastic flopping.

 

[70strathead]

You have to practice accuracy and develop speed. That said, slow down and practice a lot.

You'll get it.

+ to all of this

with sweep picking, its all about playing lightly and without much effort at the end of the day - practice using a light finger touch approach and not "with a heavy hand"

right hand technique is as much important as left hand technique. when starting to go up the fretboard vertically starting on the high e, always start with a downpick and then slide up. when starting at the low e going down, start with an up stroke and slide down. the sliding motion should be uniform with the finger motion and the time that you change notes with your fingers dictates how long that note will ring out - by not pressing on the note for too long, you're automatically muting the notes you do not want to play. noise is controlled on open strings by sweeping your right hand across the note just after you fret the next following note in the arpeggio.

what really gets fun is when you start mixing tap and tap+slides with arpeggio sweeps. that takes alot of practice as it takes you out of your comfort zone of having your hand next to the bridge.

no matter where you are - get rid of the metronome for now and practice very very very slow, make sure you practice correct technique, dont practice your mistakes or you will play your mistakes - its all about control and doing it lightly/effortlessly and smoothly.

its has everything to do with technique and what works for you in how you hold your pick.

You had me until the "toss the metronome comment". Why?
The technique, or any technique for that matter will NEVER get absorbed correct when practicing it without any meaningful reference. That is why sweeping 16ths stuff at 90 bpm is harder than 16th triplets at 120. Because if you don't have the technique down what saves you at faster speed is that you can just slop through it by targeting down beats. But maybe there's something I'm not getting...
For that matter the two things that I come to realize that are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN TIME ON THE INSTRUMENT IS internalizing rhythm...(put a metronome on your iphone and drive around with a click track singing rhythms to the click)...and spedning time on ear training.

if you noticed the next few words, it is practice very very very slowly. so slow a metronome wont help you. you need to get the technique down and the feel of it down first, and then worry about repetative practice using a metronome and applying it in a beat.

if you practice it slowly but with a heavy hand then it wont matter that you know rhythm or can apply it - you will never be able to do it cleanly when changing hand and finger positions at the same time. its extremely important to get this feeling thing down and understand fluidity with sweep picking. it is definately something that has to be practiced properly or you will develop improper technique and therefore limit yourself - these are things that need attention without a metronome at first. you have to walk before you can run.

if you cannot get this feeling down, no matter how fast you are you will find out your limits very quick trying to speed things up. develop it properly from the start - and the speed will come on its own since sweep picking is a fluid mechanic feeling. the next hardest thing to tackle for me, is expanding your arpeggio vocabulary so that you can apply it in beats in songs and make the arpeggios match the song - instead of playing some random arpeggio you might know that does not belong there in a musical sense at all.

with this, comes even more important notes on the technique i mentioned. the habbits you develop will transfer to all modal forms of arpeggios - it is best to concentrate on them now and not in the future.

ear training? thats a whole different topic in itself - its insanely important with anything you do - vocals, guitar, tuning, rhythm, etc

You can get the feel for the pick motion, the rolling left hand fingertips and the syncronisation in a matter of one lesson...at least my students have. The attack can be heavy or light and will sound different but most certainly not change that you can bring it up to speed.
And yes setting the metronome to say 50 bpm and playing 16th makes perfect sense to get the technique together onve the motion bit is understood.

agree on the stuff has to be in muscle memory to be sped up.

As for arpeggios...now we're way opposite on that one...Matching?!?!?!?! Like what an A major or A dominant 7 arp over an A7 chord?
I rather drive a screwdriver into my earhole. IMnotsoHO where it's at is to learn how to use a limted amount of information in a variety of ways...i.e. a m7b5 arp up a third will get you a a dominant 8 sound. as in Bm7b5 arpeggio over G spells out a G9 arpeggio.
Just like a a diminished 7 down a a whole or up a half will give you a 7b9 sound as in F diminished over E =E7b9
Em against C=Cmaj7 sound
E7 against C=Camj7#5 sound, etc, etc...
And agreed on the random part...

Agree with this. Metronome is your God. internalizing rhythm resonates within the context of this disucssion. When I sat with Greg Howe for a 3 hour lesson, the first 15 minutes was "listening and internalizing" with a click and tapping your foot in off beats as well. Then we started with an one example of a similar concept Ed pointed out...for instance one of them being F#min7b5 Arpeggio over an Am7 Dorian vamp. I new the shapes, but advanced harmony/rhythm is what I wanted to get a better grip of and adding color to whatever Key your playing in. It was actualy more difficult for me to play at a slow tempo using 8th notes vs. 16th. Nevertheless, I was limited and he demonstrated switching it up and by the end of the session, it didnt matter what arpeggio form i had to play, my internal clock was aware of the shifting and it was an amazing discovery for me. SO point it is, Ed's concept and theory are proven, at least in my experience. Another thing I'd like to add is turn off the distortion and play through a clean tone. It will force you to pay more attention to note clarity and technique.

 

[degenaro]

You're not kidding on the aspect of internalizing rhythm. This is where south India has every one beat...their Konakol (rhythmic solfege). Before India I would had to actually figure out how to make a line tick with this rhythms...
Now I can actually figure all this without a guitar and then actually playing it is cake....

So I really don't hold too much importance on any actual technique, wince I think the body will decide what it wants.

And then bustin out a melodic minor thing like this...with thta rhythm will be no issue...