Synergy SYN2 issues... no sound

MadAsAHatter

MadAsAHatter

Well-known member
I've already reached out to Synergy, but figured I'd ask here too while I wait for them to respond.

Hopefully you can follow the longer version below as it involved swapping 2 SYN2's between 2 amps to test out. The quick version is both units stopped working immediately after I put the Randall SL+ module I just got into each. But the SL+ works fine in my RM100 head; Though I'm not going to put it in again for fear them module may fry the head. I did a quick visual inspection and didn't see any burn marks or blown fuses. Didn't hear any pops or the like when they stopped working, just silence.

So the long version.
I have 2 SYN2 units (we’ll call Unit1 & unit2) that are not working properly; there is no sound from either. Each unit is set up to run through the effects loop of different amps (We’ll call them Amp1 & Amp2). So Unit1 with Amp1 and Unit2 with Amp2. When I previously used Unit1/Amp1 it was working properly. Today I went to use them and no sound. When Unit1 was removed from Amp1, Amp1 worked properly. To ensure Unit2/Amp2 was working I checked them and they were working. I then setup Unit1 with Amp2 and no sound. I also moved Unit2 to Amp1 and all worked properly. I turned everything off swapped a module from Unit1/Amp2 to Unit2/Amp1. Turned on Unit2/Amp1 and now no sound from Unit2. With the SYN2 units not hooked to the amps, both amps worked properly. At this point both unit1 and Unit2 do not appear to be working not working. The common factor between both is the module that I put in each just prior to the SYN2s not working. The module is a Randall SL+. This module appears to work correctly when placed in my Randall RM100 amp.

Any ideas on when the problem could be and how to fix it?
 
Update: I was looking at things this morning and was able to detect a little life in both units. When I put specifically my Pitbull or IICP module in either SYN2 I get some audible noise. It doesn't sound like it should and you definitely know something is wrong. I also had to turn the amp volume up more than normal to hear it, but could still detect it at a lower volume setting. So at least it's something. The noise changes when switching from high to low gain channel and to either module. It appears signal is sort of making it though somewhere. There is is still nothing audible produced from any other module, just those two. Also no sound when in bypass
 
I talked to Rob over at Jaded Faith just now to see if he could offer any insight. Don't have a fix for it but I believe we figured out what caused the problem. Rob just came across this issue a few weeks ago where a board on a first gen Randall module didn't have a good fit where the gold connectors on the module board plug in. On that person's module he had to layer some solder on the board connectors so they were thick enough to make a good fit. He said it sound like the same thing on mine. I didn't notice until I paid attention but it does feel like when I plug the SL+ module in it's not a good fit.

So the working theory is that with the bad connection it may have arched across the pins (like what can happen if you hot swap modules) and done something to the SYN 2 units; I'm still waiting to hear back from Synergy and Rob said he's going to reach out to Bruce Egnater to see if he has any thoughts on the matter or knows an easy fix for the SYN2 units.
 
That's kinda scary. Is the problem area visually obvious without disassembling the module? I have a ton of Randall single channel modules, including some rare modded ones, if any have that symptom sure would like to get in front of potential issues.
 
9985 said:
That's kinda scary. Is the problem area visually obvious without disassembling the module? I have a ton of Randall single channel modules, including some rare modded ones, if any have that symptom sure would like to get in front of potential issues.
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No there's nothing visually obvious on the module. The best I can tell you on that is when you push the module in it feels like there is zero friction fit when the pins slide in. In comparison to my other Randall modules; I feel the extra little push to plug it in to the connector all the way. The SL+ slid in with no extra little resistance.

Rob did talk to Bruce. Bruce said they had an issue with a switching component (Q4) shorting out when older modules were used.

If I understand correctly this mainly applies to first generation Randall modules, the ones with all silver faceplates (no black lines or anything)
 
MadAsAHatter said:
I talked to Rob over at Jaded Faith just now to see if he could offer any insight. Don't have a fix for it but I believe we figured out what caused the problem. Rob just came across this issue a few weeks ago where a board on a first gen Randall module didn't have a good fit where the gold connectors on the module board plug in. On that person's module he had to layer some solder on the board connectors so they were thick enough to make a good fit. He said it sound like the same thing on mine. I didn't notice until I paid attention but it does feel like when I plug the SL+ module in it's not a good fit.

So the working theory is that with the bad connection it may have arched across the pins (like what can happen if you hot swap modules) and done something to the SYN 2 units; I'm still waiting to hear back from Synergy and Rob said he's going to reach out to Bruce Egnater to see if he has any thoughts on the matter or knows an easy fix for the SYN2 units.
Click to expand...

Yup, this is actually my module he's referring to. It was a Treadplate that I had him turn into a modded Stein+ w/ custom graphics. This particular module was in such poor shape, and caused him so many problems, I think he would have rather hurled it out the window than keep going with it. It does function, but he doesn't feel 100% about it, and I'm not sure I fully trust it. I'm on the hunt for another donor so we can redo it.

I felt really bad about the situation, but there was no way he or I or even the guy I got it from could have known ahead of time that it was practically a dud. Rob said he's encountered only a couple of modules out of thousands that he considered total lemons, and this was very nearly one of them. As of now, I'm not using the module at all. It makes me nervous.
 
Tommy Von Voigt said:
Yup, this is actually my module he's referring to. It was a Treadplate that I had him turn into a modded Stein+ w/ custom graphics. This particular module was in such poor shape, and caused him so many problems, I think he would have rather hurled it out the window than keep going with it. It does function, but he doesn't feel 100% about it, and I'm not sure I fully trust it. I'm on the hunt for another donor so we can redo it.

I felt really bad about the situation, but there was no way he or I or even the guy I got it from could have known ahead of time that it was practically a dud. Rob said he's encountered only a couple of modules out of thousands that he considered total lemons, and this was very nearly one of them. As of now, I'm not using the module at all. It makes me nervous.
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Man, that stinks. Consider the risk of frying the preamp/head its connecting to at much greater repair cost, I'm not sure I'd continue using it. Definitely no hot swapping it, only full power down when inserting/removing.
 
Tommy Von Voigt said:
Yup, this is actually my module he's referring to. It was a Treadplate that I had him turn into a modded Stein+ w/ custom graphics. This particular module was in such poor shape, and caused him so many problems, I think he would have rather hurled it out the window than keep going with it. It does function, but he doesn't feel 100% about it, and I'm not sure I fully trust it. I'm on the hunt for another donor so we can redo it.

I felt really bad about the situation, but there was no way he or I or even the guy I got it from could have known ahead of time that it was practically a dud. Rob said he's encountered only a couple of modules out of thousands that he considered total lemons, and this was very nearly one of them. As of now, I'm not using the module at all. It makes me nervous.
Click to expand...

Rob said that was pretty rough and it took a while to figure out what was going on, but he finally got it going. Since he's the one that did all the work I'd feel okay about using it. I highly doubt he'd let anything leave his shop that wasn't 100% or had potential to damage your equipment. And he did tell me that out of the thousands of module's he's worked on he's never seen or heard of a module frying a head that wasn't due to hot swapping or other user abuse. I think this is more of a compatibility issue between synergy units and some 1st gen Randall modules. If you use a Randall head and power down when swapping modules it should be alright. If you're concerned about it, give Rob a call. He'll talk you trough what's best.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Rob said that was pretty rough and it took a while to figure out what was going on, but he finally got it going. Since he's the one that did all the work I'd feel okay about using it. I highly doubt he'd let anything leave his shop that wasn't 100% or had potential to damage your equipment. And he did tell me that out of the thousands of module's he's worked on he's never seen or heard of a module frying a head that wasn't due to hot swapping or other user abuse. I think this is more of a compatibility issue between synergy units and some 1st gen Randall modules. If you use a Randall head and power down when swapping modules it should be alright. If you're concerned about it, give Rob a call. He'll talk you trough what's best.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we've been talking back and forth about it. This particular module gave him an obscene amount of trouble. I felt really bad about it. Props to him, though, he kept at it until it behaved in every test he put it through. What was driving him nuts was that once he would get it sorted, something else in it would fail. Just over and over again. So, yeah, this particular module does make me nervous...like, what will fail next? Rob's the man, though, so we'll get it sorted.

I have a couple of other modules from him that are just crushing it right now :)
 
Another small update on the situation...
I contacted Synergy and right off they're giving me crap about covering it under warranty. I bought them from Musician's Friend as open box, but stated as being the same as new and covered under full warranty. Synergy is saying they were purchased used, the warranty is invalid, and contact MF to have it fixed.

It's all very frustrating right now, especially since (according to what was passed to me from Bruce) it's a known issue that some 1st gen Randall modules can short out the Synergy stuff. One of their big advertising points is all the Randall MTS stuff is compatible with Synergy. So this is a design flaw, not a component failure. Something like that should be covered no charge for upgrade/repair and no questions asked regardless of warranty status. But like any other faceless company they seem to have no problem not standing by their word and shafting their customers.

For now I'm waiting on Synergy to respond to my rebuttal about the warranty. I have a feeling they'll refuse to cover it and I'll be paying out of pocket to have everything fixed. If that's the case I'll send the units over to Rob if he thinks he can get them going again. At this point I trust him more than the people at Synergy.
 
Another Update.
I contacted Musician's Friend for proof that the SYN2 in fact did have a warranty and sent that to the guy at Synergy. I also pointed out that the issue diagnosed by Bruce Egnater was due to know design defect rather than a component failure and should be covered regardless of warranty. After that they gave me an RA# to send the units for repair. I dropped them off for shipment over the weekend so they should be going out some time today. Fingers crossed that all goes well from here.

The SL+ module that caused all the problems appears to work fine in my Randall head so I'll feel mostly comfortable using it in that. But it's never going into a Synergy unit again. I guess since they're from the same product line and time frame there's no problems with compatibility.

As for any other Randall module I may pick up along the way... I'll be avoiding any that are 1st generation (the ones with a full silver faceplate, no black lines) and paying extra attention to how others dock into they Synergy units. This has made me a little gun shy of using Randall modules with Synergy stuff. Anything not 1st gen I'll cautiously give a try, but if it feels too loose like the SL+ was I won't even turn the Synergy on & the module will be coming out immediately.
 
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