Tech help: Hiss (G-System + Herbie)

[ctoddrun]

I play through a fairly simple rig:

Guitar
EB Volume
Dunlop Wah
G System
Diezel Herbert

(4 cable method with Mogami cabling)

I typically use channel 2+ for everything and just use my volume for clean/crunch.

On the G System I set my gate up fairly hard so that when I'm not playing the gate shuts down the "white noise" almost immediately, and when I'm playing, its too loud to hear the high gain hiss anyway and thats always been fine.

The band is learning Right In Two now and if you know the song you know that its mostly clean.

My trouble is, when I roll the volume off and play the tune, the gate cant catch the white noise and every note I play has some fuzz/hiss around it until the gate shuts off.




Do you think its possibly a grounding thing?

Should I set my gate differently on that tune to help?




I thought maybe my Herbert was unusually noisy so I took it to a dealer in Houston and played it side by side with a brand new one and they were basically identically noisy...


Any suggestions to what I might do to clean those clean notes up?

 

[Peter Diezel]

You will have the same problem with each
other amp because of Your signal flow.

But I´m not an effect unit expert, so I hope
some of the guys will chime in to help You out
with their experience.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[van hellion]

def sounds like a ground hum of some sort. you need some way to lift the ground like a ebtech hum eliminator.
or i could be totally wrong hard to trouble shoot those things without the rig in front of me.

A Wood

 

[duesentrieb]

Andy, I've asked him if its more a hum (then an iso transformer like a Palmer PDI01 is recommended - not this ground lifting stuff !!!) or more a hiss problem.

Hiss is caused when the impedances of amp and fx unit don't fit.

 

[ctoddrun]

Any recommendations on how I go about matching impedance?


I'll google the Palmer you mentioned and see if it starts to make sense to me...

 

[duesentrieb]

Its Palmer PLI 01, sorry.

http://www.palmergear.com/pro_audio.shtml

 

[ctoddrun]

Thanks.


It looks like that is for the 60 cycle-type hum elimination, right? And I'm assuming this is what would match impedance levels?


If its just the hiss from the amount of gain I'm running on 2+, would it work to minimize that as well?

 

[duesentrieb]

Nope, thats a unit against ground loops in racks or on pedalboards.

Give us some time, we need to do some reading about the levels/impedance of the G-System.
My guess is that TC is using "funky" levels (I could be wrong though). We'll see . . .

 

[ctoddrun]

Thanks again. I appreciate you going through the trouble for some dude across the world.



I was just browsing/searching the G System forum. There seem to be a lot of people with the issue. Each thread I read went right over my head unfortunately.

 

[van hellion]

odd as i havent encountered this problem. maybe i got lucky on the setup or something.. im using a gsystem and an isp gate (new one with built in ground lifts for every input/output) seems to work pretty well. my live sound is 90 percent of the time right on.

olaf can you elaborate on your theories for me? the impedence theory would be nice to wrap my head around if you could enlighten me in maybe a simpler way of putting it.

A Wood

 

[steve_k]

Couple of questions and comments regarding your set up.....

For what your rig has, you should not need a noise gate at all. Take the gate out of the patch. Noise gates are superb at robbing you of everything when you roll your volume back.

How are you powering your wah? Dunlop wah's are one of the biggest sources of ground problems, even when off. If you aren't using some like a Voodoo Pedal Power, then put a battery in it. I replaced mine with a Dunlop rack wah.

Ernie Ball volume pedals, even though not powered will cause me some issues. Mine is now in the closet. Try it without yours in the path. They make excellent door stops too.

Not sure of this 4 cable method you are talking about. Is a G-system a rack effects thing? Your signal path should be from loop send to mono input on the G-system and the same side out to your loop return. This is unbalanced and regular instrument cables will be fine.

As for Right In Two, all you need is a delay in front of the amp or in the loop and nothing else. Delay time set about 500 ms and get about 2 repeats back.

Let us know what you find...

Steve

 

[ctoddrun]

For what your rig has, you should not need a noise gate at all. Take the gate out of the patch. Noise gates are superb at robbing you of everything when you roll your volume back.

Yes, I agree. I've reset my settings and have eliminated the noise gate.

How are you powering your wah? Dunlop wah's are one of the biggest sources of ground problems, even when off. If you aren't using some like a Voodoo Pedal Power, then put a battery in it. I replaced mine with a Dunlop rack wah.

The G System has 4 power connections. I've been powering the wah from the G.

Ernie Ball volume pedals, even though not powered will cause me some issues. Mine is now in the closet. Try it without yours in the path. They make excellent door stops too.

I dont think I can/want to get rid of a volume pedal. Its pretty much integral to my playing at this point.

Let us know what you find...

Steve

Well, I went to the TC G System forum and there is a SUPER knowledgeable guy named Laird there. I researched those forums for a couple of days and the topic came up a lot.

Basically I need to add about 125 buck worth of stuff:

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/lls-2des.html

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/he-2des.html



Laird has fielded the same question(s) for so long he went through the trouble of putting together a 38 page manual.

Talk about thorough and helpful. Step-by-step instructions on exactly how to set up the system in the first place, and then on how to track down the noise issues once you're all set up.


I have both ground loop issues and line-level issues, it seems.

Unfortunately, NO ONE in Houston carries those products from Ebtech so I had to order on-line.

Once I get them both in and check it all out, I'll report back again.

If anyone wants a copy of that manual I will be glad to email it to you.

 

[duesentrieb]

Glad that you could find a solution.

I'd dump the fx unit instead though . . .

 

[ctoddrun]

Glad that you could find a solution.

I'd dump the fx unit instead though . . .

Well, since the units I had to buy havent been delivered yet, the jury is still out on if I have the solution.


Why would you dump the effects? Better option?

 

[duesentrieb]

Maybe - depends on your needs.

Force, Eclipse or even an AxeFX.

 

[van hellion]

Maybe - depends on your needs.

Force, Eclipse or even an AxeFX.

g sysem is pretty much g force effects inside this things housing and switching system

A Wood

 

[duesentrieb]

Sure Andy, but the levels are different - part of his problem

 

[Audioholic]

Switching to an AXE FX will not leviate any hiss or ground loop problems. G-system is plenty fine of a unit. love mine, and I have both.

best of luck with your quest for cleaner sound. though with any amount of moderate gain, you will be introducing at least some noise into the equation.

 

[duesentrieb]

If you keep the Axe in the loop its fine. The 4 cable method causes the problems with hiss.

 

[duesentrieb]

. . . and inside AxeFX you can adjust the "loop level" (of AF) and the Output 2 in a way that the result is pretty close to those external eb-tech parts.