The overly compressed tone of YouTube guitarists

  • Thread starter Thread starter NotAlexJones
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I'm in the iphone camp as well.. I just want the facts with no enhancements.. I know what I'm listening for

and I dont like to hear the strings over the amp...
 
NotAlexJones":26gjwdru said:
I'll start out by saying I love the content from players like Pete Thorn, Rob Chapman, Shawn Tubbs, Rabea Massaad, Dan & Mick from That Pedal Show, and many of the others outstanding players who are making YouTube a better place... But I have a question about their overdriven guitar tones. Every time they dabble into the medium to high gain arena, what I'm hearing from their channels are severely compressed, fizzy, and not even remotely what they'd be hearing while in the room with the amp. Is it really just YouTube's audio compression doing this? When bands who have "made it" upload their content to YouTube, it sounds close enough to the lossless audio files I have on my hard drive to where I'm not complaining about fizzy guitar sounds. Is it as good as lossless audio? Not even close but it's close enough to where I'm not complaining. So why are they having this issue?

As someone who's in the market for recording equipment, I'm afraid of falling into the same situation they're in where I'm thousands upon thousands of dollars deep into DAW's, direct, boxes, mic preamps, the works... And then it just ends up sounding like someone turned the compression up to 11 in post. I'm not trying to bash these guys, hell I wish I was as good as them, but what they're uploading in terms of the medium to high gain content is not okay to my ears (the playing absolutely is, just not the tone - and if I were in the room with them as they were playing it I have no doubt I'd be ecstatic with what I'm hearing).

I see these players using top of the line equipment from Universal Audio, Apoggee, ect. and it doesn't seem to be helping their cause. The Universal Audio Ox is a great example. Looks amazing on paper, but pretty much every video featuring saturated guitar sounds from the Ox into a DAW using their cab / mic sims are Fizzy with a capital F - it sounds revolting. Is this something that just can't be avoided with the equipment that's available for the at-home player? Or some other variable I'm missing here? Sorry if this is coming off as negative, I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this and it's probably easier to get answers if I don't sugar coat anything.
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Maybe you're just not a high gain guy. The players you mentioned don't always use high gain and if they did you'd probably think the same thing. You can pick any number of famous metal guitarists like Ola Englund, Wes Hauch, Keith Merrow, and on and on. I think the compression and fizz you hear is all part of the appeal for people who like metal. Every time I hear people complain about compressed, fizzy, high gain are people who play old Marshalls and Komet Concords and what not. I love guitar tone period so if it's clean or fizzy or fuzzy then it's all good to me.
 
littleguitars":a3si39qd said:
I wonder if a lot of people listen to clips on their iPads or their iphones. If that's the case, then yeah, maybe you're not going to think an iPhone clip sounds that bad. Personally, I'm usually listening through some good monitors, and I find very little to like about iPhone clips.

It's easy to get a shitty sound using a mic too, of course, but that's usually through some combination of user error, poor mic placement, shitty amp, shitty playing, out of tune guitar etc.
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Exactly. I love a great sounding, properly mic’d, properly produced recording of an amp. Problem is, most people suck at it and it ends up sounding nothing like the actual amp so it becomes useless as a reference.
 
I have a few different pairs of quality headphones ranging from iPhone ear buds, to new Bose QC something or others, to studio cans. If it's an amp demo by some dude on YouTube, I'd still rather hear it recorded "in the room" by anything (webcam, iPhone, camcorder, standalone audio recorder, etc.) over a badly mic'd speaker cone by someone who isn't a professional recording engineer. And even some of those I've heard sound bad. The way an amp sounds IN A MIX, with a REAL BAND on and ALBUM, is very different than most DIYers. And for me, I get a better idea of how an amp sounds when it's just a simple room mic. Room mic = distance = time.

When I listen to a demo, I don't want to hear what it sounds like if I had my ear up against the speaker cone. Isn't the goal of properly mic'ing a guitar cab—to make it sound like it's NOT mic'd up? You want it to sound natural, right? Like how you hear it in the room. Many amp demos recorded with a mic on the speaker cone sound like a mic on the speaker cone. And I don't like that. I am not a recording artist or engineer. But I presume the best recorded tones are some combination of mic'ing techniques? Maybe one mic on the center of the cone, one farther out on the perimeter, and maybe another one or two at different distances in the room? And then elements of each source are mixed. And then the guitars are double or triple tracked and mixed.

But I'm obviously a weirdo and don't know what I'm talking about. So that's just me lol.
 
FourT6and2":2zomb0tu said:
I have a few different pairs of quality headphones ranging from iPhone ear buds, to new Bose QC something or others, to studio cans. If it's an amp demo by some dude on YouTube, I'd still rather hear it recorded "in the room" by anything (webcam, iPhone, camcorder, standalone audio recorder, etc.) over a badly mic'd speaker cone by someone who isn't a professional recording engineer. And even some of those I've heard sound bad. The way an amp sounds IN A MIX, with a REAL BAND on and ALBUM, is very different than most DIYers. And for me, I get a better idea of how an amp sounds when it's just a simple room mic. Room mic = distance = time.

When I listen to a demo, I don't want to hear what it sounds like if I had my ear up against the speaker cone. Isn't the goal of properly mic'ing a guitar cab—to make it sound like it's NOT mic'd up? You want it to sound natural, right? Like how you hear it in the room. Many amp demos recorded with a mic on the speaker cone sound like a mic on the speaker cone. And I don't like that. I am not a recording artist or engineer. But I presume the best recorded tones are some combination of mic'ing techniques? Maybe one mic on the center of the cone, one farther out on the perimeter, and maybe another one or two at different distances in the room? And then elements of each source are mixed. And then the guitars are double or triple tracked and mixed.

But I'm obviously a weirdo and don't know what I'm talking about. So that's just me lol.
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Agreed.

The best clips are typically close mic'd, room mic'd, and running through a great board, with a talented player and engineer.

Barring that, an Iphone in the room almost always gives you a better feel for reality, than a poorly mic'd amateur recording.

Most of us posting on youtube are just hacks, trying to share something we dig.

All Iphone leaning against whatever can was lying around...strings and all. :lol: :LOL:

As always, YMMV. :thumbsup:

Henning Bottle Rocket



Cornford MK50



Axe Fx

 
I typically don't like standing right in front of my speaker cabs when I'm playing, I usually stand off to the side a bit. I don't want that direct hit from speaker to eardrum, I want the sound to reflect/disperse first. This reflected/mixed sound is what we usually hear when we get iPhone clips.

Clips recorded with mics usually have mics right on the cone and often in an effort to not color anything, no EQ or anything is added. Or if it is its minimal. And that usually sounds harsh/fizzy/in your face and not anything like it does just a few feet away and off to the side a little.

So I can see both sides. iPhone clips often provide a better example of what it sounds like in the room (which is kind of sad) but when it comes to getting great recorded tone they don't compare. And for me, iPhone clips at super low volume where I can still hear the guitar acoustically are all but useless for gaging what an amp really sounds like.
 
If I can hear the string noise in the clip, I don't feel like I can really trust what the amp sounds like.

But I'd recommend trying to listen in one of the HD settings. There's a pretty drastic difference in the audio quality between the 480p and 720 or 1080.
 
Probably the best way to get a decent and comparable representation of an amp and speaker cab is putting a sm57 on the cone because that is what you hear on 80% of all rock records.
If you record the room, you hear the room and the position in the room more than anything else. That may appeal to yt listeners, but it is not a comparable representation of an amp or speakers.
And close miking is not rocket science. A one-eyed monkey can put a 57 on the cone. Contrary to all the myths, there is no more magic involved. If the sounds sucks with an sm57 on the cone, it just sucks. My 1x12 sounds honky in front of me and so does it through an sm57.
Standing behind the cab and recording the comb filtering effects of your favourite armchair behind the cab in order to evaluate the sound of an amp is as reliable as it appears to be.
Recording a drum set is almost rocket science, but certainly not guitar.



Everybody with an interface and a 57 can do this. If they would just put the mic on the cone, not the wood of the cabinet.

And btw, Pete Thorn, Tim Pierce and the like know how to records guitars...
 
It's a reflection of how the guitar audience has changed. Most of us are home players (cough...older...cough) now, so all we care about is how it sounds in the room. Even though I'm now a home player, I like to record still and I would much rather hear what an amp sounds like mic'd. It's a lot closer to what I'm going to hear if I'm using it. Many of the greatest rock tones were recorded with amps that were probably too harsh, not enough bottom and any other number of undesirables "in the room".

If you're just throwing up a clip for fun/NAD etc I'm all for quick and easy. Phone will work. Just get the volume or phone placement above the string noise.
 
Well the main point of this post is to pinpoint where the failure is for these YouTube guitarists, whether that be the equipment they're using, mic placement, editing the audio in post, whatever the case may be. As I'm trying to avoid throwing money down the drain. I'm not trying to bash guys like Pete Thorn, I love the dudes playing. He was absolutely incredible when I saw him on tour with Chris Cornell. But if I drop anywhere from $5k to $10k on recording equipment and my gained up tones are as harsh, fizzy, and compressed as his are on a regular basis, then I feel like I'd be better off taking that money and tossing it into a bonfire. It's even worse for Rabea Massaad, holy hell his treble frequencies are soooooooo harsh, how does he not notice this? It's unacceptable for your recordings to sound this way when "this is your job".

As people have stated in this thread, mic'ing a cab up close has worked for many a rock bands in the past, and the tone of the amp comes through. So again, where are these guys failing? Because they clearly are, and I'm not the only one hearing it. This thread is full of other people sharing the same complaints.

Again I don't want to bash anyone, but sugar coating this only compounds the problem, nor is having low standards going to help. I have good hard earned money, I want to spend it, but I don't want to waste it. Just to make this thread as productive as we can, let's focus on the one thing that can't be changed- the gear. Mic placement can be experimented with a thousand times over and eventually you'll find that sweet spot. But for the gear itself which is an unchanging thing, once you buy it you're stuck.... What gear would someone recommend to make the recordings sound like the amp? I don't care what it is, how expensive it is (well okay let's keep it $10k or less if we can lol), just list whatever equipment you think would help avoid the disaster known as YGT - YouTube Guitar Tone.
 
NotAlexJones":1h7wbtzi said:
Well the main point of this post is to pinpoint where the failure is for these YouTube guitarists, whether that be the equipment they're using, mic placement, editing the audio in post, whatever the case may be. As I'm trying to avoid throwing money down the drain. I'm not trying to bash guys like Pete Thorn, I love the dudes playing. He was absolutely incredible when I saw him on tour with Chris Cornell. But if I drop anywhere from $5k to $10k on recording equipment and my gained up tones are as harsh, fizzy, and compressed as his are on a regular basis, then I feel like I'd be better off taking that money and tossing it into a bonfire. It's even worse for Rabea Massaad, holy hell his treble frequencies are soooooooo harsh, how does he not notice this? It's unacceptable for your recordings to sound this way when "this is your job".

As people have stated in this thread, mic'ing a cab up close has worked for many a rock bands in the past, and the tone of the amp comes through. So again, where are these guys failing? Because they clearly are, and I'm not the only one hearing it. This thread is full of other people sharing the same complaints.

Again I don't want to bash anyone, but sugar coating this only compounds the problem, nor is having low standards going to help. I have good hard earned money, I want to spend it, but I don't want to waste it. Just to make this thread as productive as we can, let's focus on the one thing that can't be changed- the gear. Mic placement can be experimented with a thousand times over and eventually you'll find that sweet spot. But for the gear itself which is an unchanging thing, once you buy it you're stuck.... What gear would someone recommend to make the recordings sound like the amp? I don't care what it is, how expensive it is (well okay let's keep it $10k or less if we can lol), just list whatever equipment you think would help avoid the disaster known as YGT - YouTube Guitar Tone.
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Why do you have to spend so much money just to make Youtube videos? Think about the people you're talking to here. You have a range of people who work at car washes to people who spend more time shopping for a PRS than they do practicing. To be honest, most people Americans don't really know much about working hard and saving money because we have a society of entitlement and credit cards. That's just a simple fact that you can easily find in statistics. Therefore only a small percentage of the population is going to understand you. Probably 5% of this entire forum can work and save $10,000 for gear to make Youtube videos.

Having said that then why worry so much about what tone other people are getting? If you have the skill and know-how, you can make a $100 piece of equipment sound arguably as good as a $1000 piece of equipment. People do it all the time. Just go out and buy your equipment and make it work for you. No matter how immaculate and acclaimed your tone gets there are always going to be plenty of assholes who criticize it. More important than spending money is growing a tolerance for critics because probably 10% of criticism is useful.
 
I never said anything about recording for the purpose of uploading to YouTube, I'm just using those players as a benchmark for how you can spend a pretty penny and still not get what you pay for. I'm building a home studio, it's my hard earned money, and this is how I'm choosing to spend it. Trying to get me to see your point on how the money should be spent is derailing the thread for no good reason. Moving forward please let's keep the post about the gear, and any recording technique's that help keep the amp's tone in tact. Keep the agenda's out of the thread please (mod's feel free to remove agenda driven posts if necessary) - anything else is counterproductive at this point.
 
crankyrayhanky":238jc4fd said:
Whowantsamustache":238jc4fd said:
All iPhone clips sound the same to me. I literally can’t tell the difference between any amp.
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Agreed
It's always odd to me when someone posts an iphone clip to great applause....meanwhile, I'm thinking I hear the strings more than the distant room sound of the amp

Throw a 57 on there and let her rip
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Hearing string noise is epic fail at recording. Those are the worst sounding clips.
 
NotAlexJones":3n3z03nx said:
I never said anything about recording for the purpose of uploading to YouTube, I'm just using those players as a benchmark for how you can spend a pretty penny and still not get what you pay for. I'm building a home studio, it's my hard earned money, and this is how I'm choosing to spend it. Trying to get me to see your point on how the money should be spent is derailing the thread for no good reason. Moving forward please let's keep the post about the gear, and any recording technique's that help keep the amp's tone in tact. Keep the agenda's out of the thread please (mod's feel free to remove agenda driven posts if necessary) - anything else is counterproductive at this point.
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Like everything related to gear, doesn’t matter how much you spend on it, the gear is only as good as the user using it.

Professional recording gear under the right user is always going to sound better than an iPhone clip. To suggest guitars should just be recorded with iPhones is hilarious, just like your SJW name you got there.
 
Nothing SJW about me or the silly last minute name I chose, pretty big judgement call based off a name there slick. I never said iPhone recordings were ideal or even good but often times can give a more accurate idea of how an amp sounds compared to supposed properly mic'd cabs running into expensive equipment. The thread has now been hijacked by trolls and narcissists, so unless a mod can clean all this up I guess it's end of discussion.

Came here looking for answers, only to find out maybe this was the wrong place to ask these kinds of questions.
 
NotAlexJones":3r2ycoj8 said:
Nothing SJW about me or the silly last minute name I chose, pretty big judgement call based off a name there slick. I never said iPhone recordings were ideal or even good but often times can give a more accurate idea of how an amp sounds compared to supposed properly mic'd cabs running into expensive equipment. The thread has now been hijacked by trolls and narcissists, so unless a mod can clean all this up I guess it's end of discussion.

Came here looking for answers, only to find out maybe this was the wrong place to ask these kinds of questions.
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I got involved in this thread because I was genuinely interested in the topic and because you didn't seem clear about what you're trying to say. As it appears, you started the narrative yourself. You began with a seemingly critical assessment of a lot of great players. Oddly enough you don't seem to know how to achieve an equally revered tone yourself. Indeed your username does give the impression that you're an SJW since Alex Jones's main targets are SJWs. That's irrelevant but I have to side with the other dude especially because you have to call on the mods to censor users in an otherwise passive thread which is typical SJW. The problem is that you're just throwing all of this out there with an unclear picture of what you're actually trying to accomplish. Add to that the fact that you want to focus on gear talk but aren't asking about particular pieces of equipment. To talk about gear then why don't you focus on some gear you researched and see what people think about it? Do you have some examples of what you have been able to make with your current setup?
 
Threads on forums have to be cleaned all the time due to confrontational internet trolls derailing the discussion which is exactly what's happened here. Nothing SJW about me or anything SJW wanting to have the conversation stay on topic. Try to re-read the thread, it's pretty clear I'm looking for people to state whatever gear, recording techniques, or anything else that would help avoid the pitfalls of the players I have mentioned. That mean's everything from the ground up...

In terms of equipment... When I say Universal Audio, it's pretty god damn obvious I'm referring to any one of their recording interfaces whether it be 8p / 16, the Ox for a reactive load, the 2-610 for a mic pre, any piece of gear that is beneficial. Over the course of the thread this has been made quite clear, but instead you want to argue about literally fucking nothing and derail the conversation, talking about SJW's? Seriously?

And you got involved in the discussion because you were looking for any reason to interject shitty metal players like Wes Hauch (yea sorry I don't have time for that noise and could give a damn about your shitty taste in music - nor how you think I should spend my money), but there's too much noise for this to go anywhere. Internet trolls always win in situations like this, congrats I'm done.
 
NotAlexJones":wny3q0zx said:
Threads on forums have to be cleaned all the time due to confrontational internet trolls derailing the discussion which is exactly what's happened here. Nothing SJW about me or anything SJW wanting to have the conversation stay on topic. Try to re-read the thread, it's pretty clear I'm looking for people to state whatever gear, recording techniques, or anything else that would help avoid the pitfalls of the players I have mentioned. That mean's everything from the ground up...

In terms of equipment... When I say Universal Audio, it's pretty god damn obvious I'm referring to any one of their recording interfaces whether it be 8p / 16, the Ox for a reactive load, the 2-610 for a mic pre, any piece of gear that is beneficial. Over the course of the thread this has been made quite clear, but instead you want to argue about literally fucking nothing and derail the conversation, talking about SJW's? Seriously?

And you got involved in the discussion because you were looking for any reason to interject shitty metal players like Wes Hauch (yea sorry I don't have time for that noise and could give a damn about your shitty taste in music - nor how you think I should spend my money), but there's too much noise for this to go anywhere. Internet trolls always win in situations like this, congrats I'm done.
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Definitely an SJW meltdown right there. All I can say is good luck in your elite tone quest. Wes Hauch and Keith Merrow shitty players with shitty tone? Where are your videos by the way?
 
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