What Key?

[amiller]

Here's a progression where the key is not exactly clear. I like questions like this because you get a chance to see how other folks approach it.

This is another "what key is this?" question.

A Maj -> C Maj -> D Maj -> G Maj -> A Maj

Rhythm is (A)da (A)da (C)dah (D)dahhh (G)da (A)da

 

[ttosh]

Here's a progression where the key is not exactly clear. I like questions like this because you get a chance to see how other folks approach it.

This is another "what key is this?" question.

A Maj -> C Maj -> D Maj -> G Maj -> A Maj

Rhythm is (A)da (A)da (C)dah (D)dahhh (G)da (A)da

Just by looking I would approach probably with being the key of A Major and use Ionian, Mixolydian and Lydian modes for this. I am guessing that would work but like anything I start with concepts like this, but then let my ears take over a bit to find a feel based on hearing the rhythm. I wonder if I am way off base on my answer?

 

[Jack Napalm]

I think you are close. I don't have a guitar to try it out at the moment but I was thinking it was the key of D Maj or A Mixolydian. If its that the C Maj chord is a substituted chord for C#dim chord.

If the C Maj, and D Maj were not there it would be an A Mixolydian progression. Those two chords seem as passing chords but with the D being stressed it makes it seem like D Major.

Course, I could be way off base as well. I'll have to try it when I get home and can hear it.

 

[ttosh]

Here's a progression where the key is not exactly clear. I like questions like this because you get a chance to see how other folks approach it.

This is another "what key is this?" question.

A Maj -> C Maj -> D Maj -> G Maj -> A Maj

Rhythm is (A)da (A)da (C)dah (D)dahhh (G)da (A)da

Well lets see

A Major = A, E, C#

C Major = C, E, G

D Major = D, F#, A#

I think those are right for the major or I, III, V major chord of each key. I am trying to see how

A Major (Ionian) A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, (A)

C Major (Ionian) C, D, E, F, G, A, B, (C)

D Major (Ionian) D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, (D)

To me as I see the A Major Scale or Ionian Mode having A, E, C#, D, F# from the chords above shared it seems like the obvious key to me overall. So C# Phrygian and E Mixolydian looks like fun modes to use for this possibly even B Dorian.

What is cool is you can probably use the G, C and A# notes in the above chords to use in each mode to add tension to the mode and bring out some cool melodies.

Again I may be way off base here, but this is why I wanted this sub forum started, as I will die not knowing anything, but I want to learn as much as I can on my journey.

 

[amiller]

I think you are close. I don't have a guitar to try it out at the moment but I was thinking it was the key of D Maj or A Mixolydian. If its that the C Maj chord is a substituted chord for C#dim chord.

If the C Maj, and D Maj were not there it would be an A Mixolydian progression. Those two chords seem as passing chords but with the D being stressed it makes it seem like D Major.

Course, I could be way off base as well. I'll have to try it when I get home and can hear it.

Can you explain how your conclusions?

 

[amiller]

What about changing the A Maj to an Am and calling the key G. The C and D would act as the 4 and 5 chord. The problem I have with doing that is that we really don't emphazise the G at all and we would have to change the A Maj to an Am. As I play it, it sounds like A to me with the C being a passing chord. I'll check out the idea that D also works.

Actually, I'm not sure that a definite key can be determine with the chords givien...that's why I posed the question...it gets you thinking about theory.

 

[Jack Napalm]

The D Major scale is D, E, F#, G, A B, C#, D. Major chords would be D, G and A. The one that throws it off for me is the C Maj as there is no C in the D Major scale. Starting at the fifth position, A which is Mixolydian you would often see the G Maj to A Maj progression. The D is no big deal in that progression but the C throws it off but you can always substitute chords. In a major sounding progression it doesn't seem like its that big of a stretch.

That stressed D, if I am reading your progression right, signifies the D Major scale but since you start on A and end on A it implies Mixolydian.

I would have to try it to see how it sounds.

Am I even close?

 

[Jack Napalm]

What about changing the A Maj to an Am and calling the key G. The C and D would act as the 4 and 5 chord. The problem I have with doing that is that we really don't emphazise the G at all and we would have to change the A Maj to an Am. As I play it, it sounds like A to me with the C being a passing chord. I'll check out the idea that D also works.

Actually, I'm not sure that a definite key can be determine with the chords givien...that's why I posed the question...it gets you thinking about theory.

I thought about that as well but without hearing it I felt the A was more prominent and wouldn't necessarily be a subbed chord.

 

[amiller]

...

Am I even close?

I don't think there's a right or wrong here. The question is just to provoke discussion.

 

[Jack Napalm]

Aw man! I thought this was a quiz and you had the answer.

 

[amiller]

Aw man! I thought this was a quiz and you had the answer.

I have very few answers...just lots of questions.

 

[degenaro]

Are you actually playing full major triads, or are you playing A and G power chords and triads for the C and D?

Regardless...here are the options...

First off a major triad can always be followed by another major chord any distance from it (same applies to minor triads).

As for analyzing it...
The go to choice is G major with the A as a borrowed key/secondary dominant (as in the V of V). V of V means that you stick a V chord in front of the V chord.

The way I'd view the progression is as an A thing, since thanks to Blues we can superimpose C over A. And then the G is merely a bVII...like in a million Rock tunes. This way you can play A mixolydian (Dmajor) over the A and D and G, and just play A pentatonic over C.

 

[ttosh]

Are you actually playing full major triads, or are you playing A and G power chords and triads for the C and D?

Regardless...here are the options...

First off a major triad can always be followed by another major chord any distance from it (same applies to minor triads).

As for analyzing it...
The go to choice is G major with the A as a borrowed key/secondary dominant (as in the V of V). V of V means that you stick a V chord in front of the V chord.

The way I'd view the progression is as an A thing, since thanks to Blues we can superimpose C over A. And then the G is merely a bVII...like in a million Rock tunes. This way you can play A mixolydian (Dmajor) over the A and D and G, and just play A pentatonic over C.

Define V for me in regards to a V chord? Is this a 5th? I mostly understand your post, but I am trying to get a better grasp and take concept here and implement and need to understand a bit more based on making sure I understand the terminology you are using.

 

[FIREBALL]

i would play over each as its own key in this case.

 

[FIREBALL]

Are you actually playing full major triads, or are you playing A and G power chords and triads for the C and D?

Regardless...here are the options...

First off a major triad can always be followed by another major chord any distance from it (same applies to minor triads).

As for analyzing it...
The go to choice is G major with the A as a borrowed key/secondary dominant (as in the V of V). V of V means that you stick a V chord in front of the V chord.

The way I'd view the progression is as an A thing, since thanks to Blues we can superimpose C over A. And then the G is merely a bVII...like in a million Rock tunes. This way you can play A mixolydian (Dmajor) over the A and D and G, and just play A pentatonic over C.

Define V for me in regards to a V chord? Is this a 5th? I mostly understand your post, but I am trying to get a better grasp and take concept here and implement and need to understand a bit more based on making sure I understand the terminology you are using.

the V chord refers to the fifth mode and 5th chord of your major modes...which is the mixolydian scale and the chord that goes with it the dominant7.in your modes it is the only dominant key,which means it is a major chord with a flat 7..the mixolydian is a major scale with a flat 7

 

[degenaro]

Define V for me in regards to a V chord? Is this a 5th? I mostly understand your post, but I am trying to get a better grasp and take concept here and implement and need to understand a bit more based on making sure I understand the terminology you are using.

It's the chord a fifth above the tonic/root of the key I.e. In A the V chord is E.

 

[degenaro]

the V chord refers to the fifth mode and 5th chord of your major modes...which is the mixolydian scale and the chord that goes with it the dominant7.in your modes it is the only dominant key,which means it is a major chord with a flat 7..the mixolydian is a major scale with a flat 7

Well, that is part of it, but as for usage very seldom do I use mixolydian over a functioning V chord, especially seeing that you can have a V7 or Valt7 in minor which is where stuff gets cool. Say you're vamping on an E 7#9 and all of a sudden instead of just running up and down stuff like the E, F# or B minor pentatonic you now can go to town with stuff like E Phrygian dominant, which relates to the E as mode V of A harmonic minor. Or E super locrian which is mode vii of F melodic minor, or E Lydian dominant which is mode IV of B melody minor. Then you have stuff like E half/whole which is the same as F diminished...and in the end if you think modes that's a whole lotta shit to remember. Whereas if you think of it as key center you have pretty much 4 to 6 scales you have to handle as long as you're hip to how to use them...
You got major
Melodic minor
Harmonic minor
Harmonic major

And add half/whole and whole tone and that is it.

 

[FIREBALL]

the V chord refers to the fifth mode and 5th chord of your major modes...which is the mixolydian scale and the chord that goes with it the dominant7.in your modes it is the only dominant key,which means it is a major chord with a flat 7..the mixolydian is a major scale with a flat 7

Well, that is part of it, but as for usage very seldom do I use mixolydian over a functioning V chord, especially seeing that you can have a V7 or Valt7 in minor which is where stuff gets cool. Say you're vamping on an E 7#9 and all of a sudden instead of just running up and down stuff like the E, F# or B minor pentatonic you now can go to town with stuff like E Phrygian dominant, which relates to the E as mode V of A harmonic minor. Or E super locrian which is mode vii of F melodic minor, or E Lydian dominant which is mode IV of B melody minor. Then you have stuff like E half/whole which is the same as F diminished...and in the end if you think modes that's a whole lotta shit to remember. Whereas if you think of it as key center you have pretty much 4 to 6 scales you have to handle as long as you're hip to how to use them...
You got major
Melodic minor
Harmonic minor
Harmonic major

And add half/whole and whole tone and that is it.

of course but he asked what the Vchord meant in general

 

[degenaro]

the V chord refers to the fifth mode and 5th chord of your major modes...which is the mixolydian scale and the chord that goes with it the dominant7.in your modes it is the only dominant key,which means it is a major chord with a flat 7..the mixolydian is a major scale with a flat 7

Well, that is part of it, but as for usage very seldom do I use mixolydian over a functioning V chord, especially seeing that you can have a V7 or Valt7 in minor which is where stuff gets cool. Say you're vamping on an E 7#9 and all of a sudden instead of just running up and down stuff like the E, F# or B minor pentatonic you now can go to town with stuff like E Phrygian dominant, which relates to the E as mode V of A harmonic minor. Or E super locrian which is mode vii of F melodic minor, or E Lydian dominant which is mode IV of B melody minor. Then you have stuff like E half/whole which is the same as F diminished...and in the end if you think modes that's a whole lotta shit to remember. Whereas if you think of it as key center you have pretty much 4 to 6 scales you have to handle as long as you're hip to how to use them...
You got major
Melodic minor
Harmonic minor
Harmonic major

And add half/whole and whole tone and that is it.

of course but he asked what the Vchord meant in general

Well..in general the V chord is the chord up a perfect fifth from the root of any key...regardless whether major or minor.

 

[FIREBALL]

the V chord refers to the fifth mode and 5th chord of your major modes...which is the mixolydian scale and the chord that goes with it the dominant7.in your modes it is the only dominant key,which means it is a major chord with a flat 7..the mixolydian is a major scale with a flat 7

Well, that is part of it, but as for usage very seldom do I use mixolydian over a functioning V chord, especially seeing that you can have a V7 or Valt7 in minor which is where stuff gets cool. Say you're vamping on an E 7#9 and all of a sudden instead of just running up and down stuff like the E, F# or B minor pentatonic you now can go to town with stuff like E Phrygian dominant, which relates to the E as mode V of A harmonic minor. Or E super locrian which is mode vii of F melodic minor, or E Lydian dominant which is mode IV of B melody minor. Then you have stuff like E half/whole which is the same as F diminished...and in the end if you think modes that's a whole lotta shit to remember. Whereas if you think of it as key center you have pretty much 4 to 6 scales you have to handle as long as you're hip to how to use them...
You got major
Melodic minor
Harmonic minor
Harmonic major

And add half/whole and whole tone and that is it.

of course but he asked what the Vchord meant in general

Well..in general the V chord is the chord up a perfect fifth from the root of any key...regardless whether major or minor.

were both telling him the same thing in a different way