King Crimson
Banned
Active member
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Yep, it's the nature of the minimum wage beast.
Funny though. There's a 7-11 at the corner of my block. I've lived in this neighborhood for more than 6 years now. Two of the guys there are in their late thirties and look like typical bar flies - they've been there longer than I’ve lived in that community, and they're still clerks.
shredhead666":e223c said:
Yep, it's the nature of the minimum wage beast.
Funny though. There's a 7-11 at the corner of my block. I've lived in this neighborhood for more than 6 years now. Two of the guys there are in their late thirties and look like typical bar flies - they've been there longer than I’ve lived in that community, and they're still clerks.
Variable
Active member
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650 economists including five Nobel Laureates sign a paper saying a minimum wage hike to 7.25 won't cause any of the problems critics cite and you think it's bogus? That article has thirty-five sources, one of them from the current chief of the Fed. If all these people can't convince you, then what will?
MitchSchaft":896fd said:
650 economists including five Nobel Laureates sign a paper saying a minimum wage hike to 7.25 won't cause any of the problems critics cite and you think it's bogus? That article has thirty-five sources, one of them from the current chief of the Fed. If all these people can't convince you, then what will?
C
cloudnine
New member
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Tyler, I know. There's all sorts of electric, phone bills, gas, heating...all of it. I'm saying that by losing just one more dollar an hour, for example, it would not make a massive dif from where I'm standing.
I think my example was bad - the owner of my biz has 4 stores, and between all of them we make probably about $4-5k per day. Subtracting half of that, that's $2000 a day (and these are low estimates - next week there will be a sale and we'll probably make 8k a day for each one of them). One more dollar per the 12 or so employees that work each day would add up, but it would hardly be disastrous.
BTW, I'm not asking for a raise - I'm at $9 CAD/8.25 USish now and I don't have bills to pay aside from tuition and just spending $. I'm lucky in that regard. But just for fun, I did a budget on my salary and it was unspectacular at best, plus I have noone else to support - AND I'm making more than three bucks more an hour than the US minimum. It was eye-opening.
TWPietz37":76a9a said:
Tyler, I know. There's all sorts of electric, phone bills, gas, heating...all of it. I'm saying that by losing just one more dollar an hour, for example, it would not make a massive dif from where I'm standing.
I think my example was bad - the owner of my biz has 4 stores, and between all of them we make probably about $4-5k per day. Subtracting half of that, that's $2000 a day (and these are low estimates - next week there will be a sale and we'll probably make 8k a day for each one of them). One more dollar per the 12 or so employees that work each day would add up, but it would hardly be disastrous.
BTW, I'm not asking for a raise - I'm at $9 CAD/8.25 USish now and I don't have bills to pay aside from tuition and just spending $. I'm lucky in that regard. But just for fun, I did a budget on my salary and it was unspectacular at best, plus I have noone else to support - AND I'm making more than three bucks more an hour than the US minimum. It was eye-opening.
Chubtone
Well-known member
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop already with the trying to figure out what your boss is making. Your severe lack of understanding about the overhead of running a business is painfully obvious everytime you post. Aren't you in college? Do they have any classes that teach business concepts?
So after your bosses overhead of $2000 a day, he makes an additional $2000 on top of that? He makes a 100% profit? LOL That is freaking hilarious! If you could make a 100% profit owning a shoe store, there would be no other types of businesses anywhere. Imagine malls full of shoe stores only. With all the owners making a 100% profit. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
A typical profit for a successful business is about 15-20%. Deal with it.
Stop already with the trying to figure out what your boss is making. Your severe lack of understanding about the overhead of running a business is painfully obvious everytime you post. Aren't you in college? Do they have any classes that teach business concepts?
So after your bosses overhead of $2000 a day, he makes an additional $2000 on top of that? He makes a 100% profit? LOL That is freaking hilarious! If you could make a 100% profit owning a shoe store, there would be no other types of businesses anywhere. Imagine malls full of shoe stores only. With all the owners making a 100% profit. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
A typical profit for a successful business is about 15-20%. Deal with it.
Neeklaus
New member
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this is pretty much my thoughts exactly
what ever happened to honest to god merit and skill getting someone a job and getting paid correctly for it.
it's been said before but- minimum wage is for drop outs, students and illegal immigrants. and i guarantee that the same people are the ones sucking the system for all the money from other "helpful programs" (read: welfare, communist medical coverage and student loans that will never be paid back).
let's not give them even more money to waste and screw us over.
MitchSchaft":77466 said:
this is pretty much my thoughts exactly
what ever happened to honest to god merit and skill getting someone a job and getting paid correctly for it.
it's been said before but- minimum wage is for drop outs, students and illegal immigrants. and i guarantee that the same people are the ones sucking the system for all the money from other "helpful programs" (read: welfare, communist medical coverage and student loans that will never be paid back).
let's not give them even more money to waste and screw us over.
C
cloudnine
New member
Where did I ever say that was profit? I just said that $2000 a day was what he had to work with after the merchandise was paid for. No shit he doesn't make $2000 a day, but I would guess he's not doing too badly since I know what the rents are in each of the areas and I've seen the bills that come through the office.
Like I said, the problem doesn't lie at my employer, he pays everyone more than $5.15 US an hour.
Like I said, the problem doesn't lie at my employer, he pays everyone more than $5.15 US an hour.
Chubtone
Well-known member
$4000 of merchandise costs him way more than $2000. That would still be a profit on merchandise of 100%. That's insane in a business that competitive.
C
cloudnine
New member
Trust me, it doesn't. It probably costs less, on most things.
Example - we sell baby Converse All-Stars for $25. He pays $8 per. We sell an Italian boot that goes for $399. We bought it for $100. Most are around 110%-120% markup. Not all of it sells at once, of course, so he's left with a lot of stuff that didn't pay for itself, but we usually get rid of it with sales that definitely cut the margins down to 50-75%.
Granted, he buys a lot at a time, and we have generally a well-to-do client base who will spend $100 bucks on their kids' shoes easy and will buy stuff for themselves.
Example - we sell baby Converse All-Stars for $25. He pays $8 per. We sell an Italian boot that goes for $399. We bought it for $100. Most are around 110%-120% markup. Not all of it sells at once, of course, so he's left with a lot of stuff that didn't pay for itself, but we usually get rid of it with sales that definitely cut the margins down to 50-75%.
Granted, he buys a lot at a time, and we have generally a well-to-do client base who will spend $100 bucks on their kids' shoes easy and will buy stuff for themselves.
cobrahead1030
Well-known member
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how many people were given the chance to sign said paper, was there an opposing paper to be signed by people who disagreed?
just saying 650 economists signed a piece of paper doesn't really offer much of a frame of reference...i can't verify that it is, but that looks very much like partial data provided in an attempt to prove a certain point
with enough effort i could probably get 650 guitarists to sign a document saying that a peavey 5150 is the best jazz amp ever built...that doesn't mean they're speaking for all the guitarists who didn't sign the document and think otherwise
Variable":fa950 said:
how many people were given the chance to sign said paper, was there an opposing paper to be signed by people who disagreed?
just saying 650 economists signed a piece of paper doesn't really offer much of a frame of reference...i can't verify that it is, but that looks very much like partial data provided in an attempt to prove a certain point
with enough effort i could probably get 650 guitarists to sign a document saying that a peavey 5150 is the best jazz amp ever built...that doesn't mean they're speaking for all the guitarists who didn't sign the document and think otherwise
TWPietz37
Banned
Member
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Even if he is grossing twice what he paid for it, I'd bet dollars to donuts that his actual economic profit is substantially lower than what you're calculating. After all is said and done, I think the average actual profit to gross ratio (in the US) is something around 5 cents on every dollar. Of course there is a chance your boss is profiting a good deal more than the average but I'll assure you he isn't profiting anywhere near to the extent that you think he is. I'm not trying to insult you or anything by saying all this, but I think you should take a look at the profit these types of businesses typically generate before you make assumptions.
Tyler
cloudnine":3b394 said:
Even if he is grossing twice what he paid for it, I'd bet dollars to donuts that his actual economic profit is substantially lower than what you're calculating. After all is said and done, I think the average actual profit to gross ratio (in the US) is something around 5 cents on every dollar. Of course there is a chance your boss is profiting a good deal more than the average but I'll assure you he isn't profiting anywhere near to the extent that you think he is. I'm not trying to insult you or anything by saying all this, but I think you should take a look at the profit these types of businesses typically generate before you make assumptions.
Tyler
Variable
Active member
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Here's a news article on said paper:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15227667/
They're certainly not all the economists in the world. But they do include five Nobel Prize winning economists. It's not like Nobel Prizes are handed out to people who don't know what they're talking about. And it's not like these guys aren't putting their necks on the line by publishing said paper. A lot of these economists probably work in a private sector that wouldn't be happy to see them endorsing a raise in wages that'll affect their bottom line.
cobrahead1030":e5a3a said:
Here's a news article on said paper:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15227667/
They're certainly not all the economists in the world. But they do include five Nobel Prize winning economists. It's not like Nobel Prizes are handed out to people who don't know what they're talking about. And it's not like these guys aren't putting their necks on the line by publishing said paper. A lot of these economists probably work in a private sector that wouldn't be happy to see them endorsing a raise in wages that'll affect their bottom line.
cobrahead1030
Well-known member
it's an interesting article, but it doesn't really explain why they don't predict the minimum wage increase would have the feared negative effects...or what business owners could do to make up for their additional cost
i also can't help but wonder how much (if any) major points are being excluded from this document...the few things they pointed out could well be taken out of context
i haven't seen the document myself, so i have no clue
i also can't help but wonder how much (if any) major points are being excluded from this document...the few things they pointed out could well be taken out of context
i haven't seen the document myself, so i have no clue
I'll post it if I find it. It's gotta be somewhere da Internets.
SteveVHT
New member
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That's why they are the owners, and the workers are the workers...
Nothing wrong with that. I owned a business for 13 years, and I'll be damned if my workers made more than they are worth.
There is a big cost in business called OVERHEAD....
Rent/lease, insurances, utilities, materials, tools, etc etc etc...and none of it is free.
Bottom line is that some people will always have to work for others, and make the bosses rich. That is their job.
But to be honest, being an owner is not all fun and games. In a successful business, the owners work twice as hard as the workers...
That is the main reason I closed shop....
Steve
cloudnine":aeea1 said:
That's why they are the owners, and the workers are the workers...
Nothing wrong with that. I owned a business for 13 years, and I'll be damned if my workers made more than they are worth.
There is a big cost in business called OVERHEAD....
Rent/lease, insurances, utilities, materials, tools, etc etc etc...and none of it is free.
Bottom line is that some people will always have to work for others, and make the bosses rich. That is their job.
But to be honest, being an owner is not all fun and games. In a successful business, the owners work twice as hard as the workers...
That is the main reason I closed shop....
Steve
B
Bob Savage
Well-known member
It would probably be an exercise in futility, but Chubtone, why don't you show cloudnine a list of the business expenses, taxes, various insurance requirements, maintenance and other fees. I don't run a business but I come from a family with a long history of entrepreneurs and have had discussions about this with my father particularly when I was contemplating taking over the business, and it's quite striking how much overhead there really is for a small business owner.