Why can’t we produce vacuum tubes in the USA?

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Mr. Willy

Mr. Willy

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Can someone please explain why we can’t or don’t produce vacuum tubes in the USA anymore? I’ve read about EPA issues in regards to vacuum tube production in the states, but if that’s the case, what happens or what is the cause of the issue as it relates to the process of creating the tube that is harmful to the environment? Does it release toxins in the air or something? If that’s the case, could a controlled environment solve that issue? Then again, it may be very expensive to create such an environment. Then again, we may not produce tubes anymore because it’s just not profitable enough or something. I don’t know why, specifically, we cannot produce vacuum tubes in this country. I’d appreciate it if someone please explain the situation.
 
Mr. Willy said:
Can someone please explain why we can’t or don’t produce vacuum tubes in the USA anymore? I’ve read about EPA issues in regards to vacuum tube production in the states, but if that’s the case, what happens or what is the cause of the issue as it relates to the process of creating the tube that is harmful to the environment? Does it release toxins in the air or something? If that’s the case, could a controlled environment solve that issue? Then again, it may be very expensive to create such an environment. Then again, we may not produce tubes anymore because it’s just not profitable enough or something. I don’t know why, specifically, we cannot produce vacuum tubes in this country. I’d appreciate it if someone please explain the situation.
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The main issue is the availability of production equipment. I looked at getting into producing them a while back, and I couldn't find functional equipment. I would have had to design new production line equipment and have it all built, which is very expensive. There wasn't enough of a demand and profit margin to justify that investment. My question is, where do people think all of these Russian tubes are going to go? Do they think all of these factories are going to shut down? These tubes are going to be sold to countries that don't have sanctions on Russia, and we are going to be importing from them rather than directly from Russia. They aren't going to just stop making tubes while there is still a demand for them. They can't afford to. Everyone needs to calm down and think logically. And, if you have a connection to someone in one of the non-sanction countries, suggest they get into tube importing.
 
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Spaceboy said:
I wouldn't think the demand for tubes to be high enough to warrant the investment of production facility and paying American wages. I think this whole Russian tube thing is being blown out of proportion. Just sit tight...
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Agree on demand and American production but honestly I wouldn't say it's blown that out of proportion. The fact is stock has dried up namely because there are only three countries producing tubes and now two of those are currently out of the equation.

Shuguang is shut down and who know's if/when they'll ever open back up. Now maybe the offshoot factory Psvane can ramp up production of good affordable guitar amp tubes but that is yet to be seen. And if they do what would the quality be? Afterall it took the Shuguang factory years to produce good tubes and even then in the last few years they were having quality issue's.

Russia is done until Putin is gone. Sure as was pointed out I'm sure the Reflektor plant can continue operating without Mike Matthews and export their tubes to countries that are not sanctioning them but how does that get to the countries that are. And as long as Putin is in control, the sanctions will remain even if he does take his crap Army out of Ukraine. That's black market and that'll add cost. I just don't see that as viable.

Slovokia - JJ's are already back ordered months. They've already got quality control issue's so how can they ramp up demand and fix that?

American, Britain etc... Just no money in it. Forget EPA which gets blamed. As Aspen Pittman said, that's easy to get around. It's everything else you have to get up and running from outdated equipment to people who can actually make the product and then you have to make a profit.

Maybe since Matthews just lost an pretty good financial inventory stream to his bottom line, he could somehow partner with JJ, bring those design variants over to that manufacturing and help them get up to snuff with quality control. No doubt he was doing good things with the designs out of Russia and the quality was getting better and better. Or maybe he could do the same with China if they ever start production again.
 
Like making guitars, it's more profitable doing overseas, especially if the stuff you're gonna make is as niche as tubes.
 
There are still US-made tubes, just not the kind guitarists are interested in: https://www.westernelectric.com/300b Question is, how many hundreds of dollars would you like to pay for a single tube? I can't imagine many people would be willing to pay $1k for a quad of power tubes, and I'd bet that US-made would cost at least that much, probably more.

Tubes are the new toilet paper. This will pass.
 
crwnedblasphemy said:
EPA...what a joke of an agency.
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it's not EPA, it's all the other costs. From https://legendarytones.com/aspen-pittman-interview/:

Aspen Pittman: Oh man, this is a 2 hour answer, but suffice to say after doing dozens of audio projects/products over the last 22 years, including the Speaker Emulator development, the development of the original Groove Tubes tube performance matching systems, the many tube mics with parallel capsule development, the many tubes we started up in the 4 foreign tube factories…that this was by FAR the toughest adventure to date.

It’s not the common "EPA restrictions" that people site, because there is relatively little of that really, much less than making PCB’s for example, but the lack of material and processing that is tube specific that makes the job so hard. Where to get the Nickle or Plate materials, or mica, or the wire needed to make grids…all those suppliers are GONE! I had to develop new sources or resurrect old ones. And as for machines to make the grids or process the vacuum or sealing…these are not made anymore so you have to search out old ones and refurbish them…even the glass and stem are a BIG issue, and although they are relatively unimportant for achieving a tonal or performance goal…they still have to be specified and sourced. IT has taken me more than 4 years and more than 1 million dollars to get to this point, and we are still not doing all processes in house yet.
 
Gutiar amps make up a tiny percent of the musical instrument sales with tube amps being an even smaller percentage, a dedicated factory wouldn't have enough consistent demand.
$10 says we get an American made tube (s) in the next year.
 
Sneerim said:
Tubes are the new toilet paper. This will pass.
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DO NOT confuse the two. You only do that one time. Especially if the amps been on for a while:shocked:
On a serious note, though, it would be cool if somebody could use this opportunity to develop a direct replacement modeling tube.
 
What about nano-tubes, will they be affected too? I'm patiently waiting for the AmpX to come out and I hope Thomas doesn't hit the same roadblock as other tube imports.
 
Sneerim said:
it's not EPA, it's all the other costs. From https://legendarytones.com/aspen-pittman-interview/:

Aspen Pittman: Oh man, this is a 2 hour answer, but suffice to say after doing dozens of audio projects/products over the last 22 years, including the Speaker Emulator development, the development of the original Groove Tubes tube performance matching systems, the many tube mics with parallel capsule development, the many tubes we started up in the 4 foreign tube factories…that this was by FAR the toughest adventure to date.

It’s not the common "EPA restrictions" that people site, because there is relatively little of that really, much less than making PCB’s for example, but the lack of material and processing that is tube specific that makes the job so hard. Where to get the Nickle or Plate materials, or mica, or the wire needed to make grids…all those suppliers are GONE! I had to develop new sources or resurrect old ones. And as for machines to make the grids or process the vacuum or sealing…these are not made anymore so you have to search out old ones and refurbish them…even the glass and stem are a BIG issue, and although they are relatively unimportant for achieving a tonal or performance goal…they still have to be specified and sourced. IT has taken me more than 4 years and more than 1 million dollars to get to this point, and we are still not doing all processes in house yet.
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Good info here. It boils down to simple cost versus profitability. So, we’d have tube makers in the US if those who would make the tubes wouldn’t be soooo greedy and expect a return on their investment. Damn corporate greed/the man!! (Sarcasm, of course.)
 
Chubbs said:
Gutiar amps make up a tiny percent of the musical instrument sales with tube amps being an even smaller percentage, a dedicated factory wouldn't have enough consistent demand.
$10 says we get an American made tube (s) in the next year.
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Just 10 huh?
 
Sneerim said:
Tubes are the new toilet paper. This will pass.
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I would really wish this would be the same, but with tubes it`s a bit more complicated. With toilet paper the production rate never dropped, it was just the panic buys. As soon as everyone was stocked up, everything went back to normal. With tubes we have one big factory totally stopping production (Shugang) since 2019 and the other in Russia not being able to sell tubes because of sanctions. So it`s the production and supply chain that dropped immensely and not the supply itself. As long as we don`t get to pre 2019 production levels, there will be a shortage.
 
Most anything can be done, including this. Finding someone willing to put the time and money in at great risk is another thing altogether. Elon Musk could make Mullards exactly like they did in the 50's if he chose to. Pretty sure that's not going to happen.
 
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There are a lot of precious metals needed to make tubes + the factory thing as mentioned. Those metals are more abundant in the earth in Eastern Europe. Would love a US factory though, especially if it was high quality product and reasonable price.
 
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If there is a demand, someone will supply... It might suck for a couple years, but Id say over the hump, someone will fill the void.
 
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