Spot the Tube Amp vs Modeler - 3 clips

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheGreatGreen
  • Start date Start date

Which clip is the real deal?

  • Clip A

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Clip B

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Clip C

    Votes: 10 62.5%
  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
TheGreatGreen

TheGreatGreen

Well-known member
Poll closed.
---Results---

Clip C

Totals:
Clip C: 10 votes
Others: 6 votes

This forum collectively has some great ears! Also, the ratio of correct/incorrect votes was a lot higher on this forum than the others where I posted this. so congrats!

However, the video in the OP was exclusive to this site and got over 80 views, which means most people who heard the clips didn't vote. In other words, less than 12% of the people who listened guessed correctly. To me, this suggests it's getting tougher and tougher to tell what's tube and what's digital. So the next time someone starts talking about how modeling "just can't come close" to the real thing and how easy it is to hear the "obvious" differences, maybe ask yourself exactly what experience they've had testing that theory, because in my experience it's not quite as "obvious" as some people might claim. Is it identical? No. But is the best modeling available at least comparable to tube amps? I believe it absolutely can be.
Click to expand...

Clips:

(edit: clip volumes have been slightly mismatched on purpose. Please us your own volume control to adjust for yourself)



Yep, it's yet another one of these threads.

Everybody loves to talk endlessly about how modeling is and always will be just so vastly inferior to real tube amps, citing esoteric, undefinable things like "feel" and such, when I think the truth is that many of those people simply haven't played through a properly dialed in modeler. The best modeling tech available these days is really cool.

Here are three clips. Two of them showcase a fully digital signal which models a boosted Dual Recto Multi Watt in Orange Modern mode, and one clip showcases a digital boost going into a real Dual Recto Multi Watt, Orange Modern mode. Other than the amp (and the amp's reactive load) the rigs and playing are identical. The Axe-Fx is dialed to show the amp model an impedance curve the same as the Shur Reactive Load so that variable has been minimized. The guitar was reamped through the Axe-Fx's built-in looper, so the guitar is identical in all three clips also. I dialed the real Dual Recto to something I thought sounded alright and recorded a take, then I dialed the Axe-Fx model (I did not use any Tone Matching, just manual knob twisting) to get as close to it as I could. After that, I made some small adjustments to the modeler and recorded another take from the modeler for a total of three takes.

Modeling signal chain:
guitar -> Boss GE-7 boost model -> [Axe-Fx Dual Recto Model] -> IRs

Tube Amp signal chain:
guitar -> Boss GE-7 boost model -> [Mesa Dual Recto Multi Watt built in 2020 -> Suhr RL] -> IRs

Screenshots of the patch, the boost, and the modeler's settings:
K10trLk.png

Qu3j0UY.png

LKYQRol.png
 
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Once going into an IR and all that no one can tell the difference on these clips, myself included. I think micing a real cab is where you get the difference. But then there’s a huge variable because of different speakers.maybe running the axe into the return then micing? I don’t know the right answer just spit balling here.

I guessed B.
 
To my ear, Clips A and B sound very similar in regards to dynamics and harmonic content. I'm guessing Clip C is the real amp as it's louder, more compressed and sounds like there is more harmonic content in the signal. You can hear the difference in impedance curve as well.
 
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Bram576 said:
Once going into an IR and all that no one can tell the difference on these clips, myself included. I think micing a real cab is where you get the difference. But then there’s a huge variable because of different speakers.maybe running the axe into the return then micing? I don’t know the right answer just spit balling here.
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I agree with this as well. When all of the sounds are going into a digital format, it's very easy to tweak anything to sound the same. It's all an "illusion." You can make a 5W amp sound like a giant blaring full stack or a 100W amp sound tiny. Producers do this all the time with artistic intent.

It's when you try to take the digital sounds out into the real world is when you see the similarities fall away. The best digital rig I had at one time was an Axe Fx 3 going into a Fryette LXII. It sounded good, no doubt about it. But when I A/B'd it against the real amps it was modeling it wasn't close. I always preferred the real amps.
 
Bram576 said:
Once going into an IR and all that no one can tell the difference on these clips, myself included. I think micing a real cab is where you get the difference. But then there’s a huge variable because of different speakers.maybe running the axe into the return then micing? I don’t know the right answer just spit balling here.

I guessed B.
Click to expand...

You know, that's a good idea. I have a Matrix SS poweramp. At some point I might try to see if I can compare a tube amp into cab directly vs modeler -> SS amp -> cab, and maybe even tube amp into cab vs tube amp -> Reactive Load -> SS poweramp -> cab.


pipboy90 said:
To my ear, Clips A and B sound very similar in regards to dynamics and harmonic content. I'm guessing Clip C is the real amp as it's louder, more compressed and sounds like there is more harmonic content in the signal.
Click to expand...

Clip C is definitely louder. I may or may not have adjusted the volumes of all three clips to mismatch just a bit on purpose.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Clip C is definitely louder. I may or may not have adjusted the volumes of all three clips to mismatch just a bit on purpose.
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That’s not really a fair fight then is it? Louder is always perceived as better by the ear.
 
You'd really need to use a FRFR cab and mic with the amp to make this a valid test.
 
Bram576 said:
Once going into an IR and all that no one can tell the difference on these clips, myself included. I think micing a real cab is where you get the difference. But then there’s a huge variable because of different speakers.maybe running the axe into the return then micing? I don’t know the right answer just spit balling here.

I guessed B.
Click to expand...
He's also running an Axe-FX boost into the front of the amp.
 
pipboy90 said:
That’s not really a fair fight then is it? Louder is always perceived as better by the ear.
Click to expand...

Louder is usually perceived as better, yes. So use your volume knob and see which one of the three clips sounds the best, or most realistic, to you as you control the volume.

The poll allows you to change your vote if you'd like, and nobody can see how any one person votes.
 
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thisguy said:
He's also running an Axe-FX boost into the front of the amp.
Click to expand...

This is irrelevant for comparison because the boost is being used in both places, and it is also exclusively an EQ. It does not clip the signal or operate non-linearly. The boost in this case is specifically modeling a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal. The results would have been the same if I would have used a real Boss GE-7 with the real tube amp vs if I'd looped just the real Boss GE-7 into the modeled tone.

The reason I used a boost at all was because the amp in this case is a Dual Recto, which pretty much everybody boosts anyway.
 
All modelers will record as good or better than a real amp, so if this is supposed to represent a comparison of which is better I got nothing. :ROFLMAO:
 
They all sound great, but I can't tell which is which. Nice chops for sure! I could never get the Fractal to sound and feel great in the room. It was great as a recording tool or as a super nice headphone amp, but for there was no contest to a real amp when using an FRFR speaker. It was much closer through a power amp and real cab to my ears. In these clips.. they all sounds badass and makes me want a Recto!
 
Metalhex said:
Trick question. All 3 are a modeller.
Click to expand...

lol fun idea but I can promise you that one of the clips is the real thing.

But I do think it's interesting that they're close enough that it's hard to tell for sure.
 
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Jdub said:
They all sound great, but I can't tell which is which. Nice chops for sure! I could never get the Fractal to sound and feel great in the room. It was great as a recording tool or as a super nice headphone amp, but for there was no contest to a real amp when using an FRFR speaker. It was much closer through a power amp and real cab to my ears. In these clips.. they all sounds badass and makes me want a Recto!
Click to expand...

Yeah a FRFR speaker is never going to sound the same as a guitar cab no matter how many tricks you have up your sleeve. The absolute minimum you need to even attempt getting a real AITR tone with a modeler is by starting with a poweramp and a real guitar cab.

And thanks! Yep the Recto is an awesome amp, especially when boosted right!
 
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