throaty tone with fast clear attack

  • Thread starter Thread starter valve
  • Start date Start date
valve said:
so, did a lot of playing, tweaking and looked up most of the suggestions here.
Thank you.

I am very willing to try new speakers/cabs (but i want to stay celestion, since most stuff i like is recorded with them). I have a mesa traditional and a marshall 1960BV which sound crazy different (16 Ohm vs 8 Ohm, different years and different cab).
The redbacks sound good from the clips, but i believe @braintheory that they will be too muddy with my Diezels.

I am yearning for Greenbacks a long time, just never sure which versions to get. You say 20W, but i guess i need to hunt down old ones???
late70s early G12-65 and late 70s early 80s G12 Vintage (without the 30) are also speakers i am interested in.

i don't like distortion pedals. i am an all tube distortion guy, so it's highpass, cleanboost, parametric EQ, or band EQ for me. Who makes a good parametric EQ?

The Mesa Mark series are actually pretty good at what i want, but even with the parametric EQ they often sound kind of boxy. but i love how you can suck out all that bass pre distortion. i makes for a really fine grit and tight distortion. But I guess you can do this to every amp with a pedal in front, which will be less slider/knobs fiddling. If i switch guitars i don't want to fiddle with knobs and just use a different pedal.

I will get a Rectifier again sooner or later, because i miss mine regularly. it has simliar "problems" than the Diezels so it's kind of an irony if i want fast clear attack. But i just love the voicing on these things (if you turn them loud enough and the fizz is bearable). But it's all relative, i don't need the amp that's best at it, just want a lil more of it right now. I even remembering liking the sag from the tube rectifier for some stuff, the Diezels sometimes feels a bit stiff especially if you keep the gain low.
Well i guess i want an amp for every mood
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I get it, but for real all the best metal tones I ever got out of my Mesa DR Tremoverb involved EV speakers, either EVM12L's or alnico SRO's. I played it through a crapload of different speakers, Celestions, Fanes, EV's, WGS, and Eminence. For hardrock and metal I would go EVM12L. I can 100% guarantee cutting through and punch will not be an issue.
 
I use a noise gate so my amp and eq on amp be pushed hard , it helps me get more throaty . And a boost
 
braintheory said:
Yeah it’s hard to get both as those qualities tend to go against each other. The best compromise I’ve found so far is to just boost my Recto’s or VH4 with a Klon or also the Lenz Octane is a good balance of both as his take on Recto’s
Click to expand...
Klon copies have a grind too then too
 
valve said:
so, did a lot of playing, tweaking and looked up most of the suggestions here.
Thank you.

I am very willing to try new speakers/cabs (but i want to stay celestion, since most stuff i like is recorded with them). I have a mesa traditional and a marshall 1960BV which sound crazy different (16 Ohm vs 8 Ohm, different years and different cab).
The redbacks sound good from the clips, but i believe @braintheory that they will be too muddy with my Diezels.

I am yearning for Greenbacks a long time, just never sure which versions to get. You say 20W, but i guess i need to hunt down old ones???
late70s early G12-65 and late 70s early 80s G12 Vintage (without the 30) are also speakers i am interested in.

i don't like distortion pedals. i am an all tube distortion guy, so it's highpass, cleanboost, parametric EQ, or band EQ for me. Who makes a good parametric EQ?

The Mesa Mark series are actually pretty good at what i want, but even with the parametric EQ they often sound kind of boxy. but i love how you can suck out all that bass pre distortion. i makes for a really fine grit and tight distortion. But I guess you can do this to every amp with a pedal in front, which will be less slider/knobs fiddling. If i switch guitars i don't want to fiddle with knobs and just use a different pedal.

I will get a Rectifier again sooner or later, because i miss mine regularly. it has simliar "problems" than the Diezels so it's kind of an irony if i want fast clear attack. But i just love the voicing on these things (if you turn them loud enough and the fizz is bearable). But it's all relative, i don't need the amp that's best at it, just want a lil more of it right now. I even remembering liking the sag from the tube rectifier for some stuff, the Diezels sometimes feels a bit stiff especially if you keep the gain low.
Well i guess i want an amp for every mood
Click to expand...
The old 20's are of course incredible, but the heritage reissues are great too and will have more or less the same type of tightness, attack and fast response. The vintage G12-65's are really good speakers, but not the ones to get if attack and tightness are the goal. I prefer them more with amps that already are pretty good at being tight and attack-y. Even though most recorded stuff you heard is with Celestion's those other speakers I mentioned can be amazing and also possibly fit very well the criteria you mentioned

For parametric EQ's I liked most the vintage Ibanez PQ-401 and Yamaha PE-01 (still have both), but I still mostly just use my Klon when I want a boost
 
dave74 said:
Is "throaty" a lower frequency than "snarl"? I have always thought they were almost the same thing.
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I've always thought of throaty as lower mid growl, maybe around 400hz. Snarl is an upper mid thing to me, maybe around 1.5khz. I've obviously over thought this and one perons throaty could be the same as snarl. 😄
 
OP, sounds like you want Celestion Classic Lead 80’s, unless they don’t break up enough for you. They have deep rumbly lows/low mids but are more “together” in the upper frequencies.

Set the amp up all throaty chunky, EQ in the loop and try boosting anywhere from 1.5k to 3k for attack.

Beyond that, pickups. Beyond that, different amp.
 
valve said:
this is contradictory isn't it. it will always be a trade off.
Everytime i increase bass (and low mids) the speakers sound kind of bloated and loose the sharp attack.
Everytime i use fatter PUs i get the nice EQ, but the attack isn't right and the distortion get kind of rough and messy.

Best to achieve this anyway is to keep a slim frontend (before the distortion) and a fat sounding amp, or what are your experiences?
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Consider a typing class. Nothing screams shit post like bad syntax, spelling and punctuation!
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
Consider a typing class. Nothing screams shit post like bad syntax, spelling and punctuation!
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istockphoto-921305818-612x612.jpg
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
So kind of you to show me your girlfriends ass.

But seriously, If you’re going to take the time to write something, please do so with effective communication in mind, and not like a 1st grader making refrigerator art. Grown folks talking over here at the forum.
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Yeah, but you're on a guitar forum and not phoning it on on a video conference, trying to flex on you coworkers that already hate you..
Shut the fuck up..
 
boltzthrower said:
OP, sounds like you want Celestion Classic Lead 80’s.
Beyond that, pickups. Beyond that, different amp.
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Or the UK Mesa MC90's. A better CL80. Garbage in, garbage out, as it's a more neutral speaker, but it's also tight in the lows, a little more low mids, less coloration. Great speakers, and pair well with Rectos, (obviously).

I had (2) Mesa Theile 1x12's I used for years, and ran literally dozens of amps through them. One thing they never did was mush out. They're as razor tight as your signal chain allows.
 
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midnightlaundry said:
Yeah, but you're on a guitar forum and not phoning it on on a video conference, trying to flex on you coworkers that already hate you..
Shut the fuck up..
Click to expand...
I don’t have co-workers to flex for. I own the company.
 
Only thing you own is stock in toilet paper because you're full of shit..
It took you over an hour to brain power that comeback.. LOL :ROFLMAO:
Alright, enough..
Back on point..
 
Thank you all!

I tracked down some cabs but in didn't pull the trigger (no really good deals or too far away).
i went down the "pedal" road and i finally put a high pass in front of my Diezel.
setting the 3dB cuttoff frequency from anywhere about 220 to 280 Hz with a 6dB/decade slope and turning up the bass knob on the amp to compensate does exactly what i want !!!
the f*** fuzziness is gone and it's now a nice clean fine grit with a clear attack. No mud and I don't have to fight the amp anymore.
if you switch back the full low end in front: what a bloated, fuzzy and muddy mess. It's comical. Man, i knew why i turned crazy regularly.
This vid of Leon Todd demonstrates it exactly:

around 2:35 is exactly the effect i got (although i think you can dial in that recto way better)!

i now had several days where i played this amp for 2 to 3 straight hours and at the end still thought it sounded great!
I haven't had this pleasure for a long time. Normally after half an hour i had enough and my ears where shut (or at least that what i thought).

F***, i should have done this long ago, but i am so possessed by the idea that you should be able to straight plug in without everything (<- not the first one with this obsession).
Well, in my defense, i never heard a clip where they stepped on a SD1 or Tubescreamer or what not, and the amp actually sounded better. It's normally just this nasty high mid voice, simliar to what i get with a EMG 81 i also own. They actually tighten the amp up nicely, too, because the have the high pass thing going on also. But man they get annoying pretty fast besides being a one trick pony.
Also i didn't like the idea of a boost, because i don't want more gain at all and only tube clipping.
Now with the high pass, it actually loses a bit of gain which is nice for channel 2 & 3, since they get too dry and muddy under 9:00 and now i can raise the gain knob a lil and it's more alive.

I will also undust my Mark V. I actually don't know why i don't play it more often.
 
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