Any Worthy "Upgrade" from the Suhr RL:IR?

[easstudios]

I will definitely check out your comparisons later when I’m at my DAW.

I agree the Suhr sounds most accurate with (RAW/unprocessed) greenback loaded Marshall cab IR’s. And I really like those cabs with certain amps (particularly Marshalls and derivatives). I have a 1960 spec all birch 4x12 loaded with greenbacks so I’m familiar with what it should actually sound like with my various amps. However it seems some amps themselves just don’t interact right with the Suhr load even though they do with the real cab.

The Friedman and the JCM 800 I have now have all sounded good through the Suhr. The Boogie JP2C sounds decent. The Deliverance sounds all wrong

I don’t want anything inherently darker or “softer” sounding - or bassier as I perceive it, unless by being “bassier” the low end is more solid sounding and not strangely bloated.

That's interesting - I feel like the Rectifier is fussy with load boxes too but I can get it close enough. I suspect it could be down to the NFB circuit (or lack of) of certain amps. I think its much like finding the right cabinet - you have to find something that pairs up nicely with the rest of your gear, and it may involve trying a few out to get there.

 

[blackba]

If nothing else this thread has reinforced to me, that just like speakers and cabs, you have to match the load box to the amp.

When I was testing the Suhr RLIR against the Fryette PS2, the Soldano HR25 loves greenback style speakers, so no wonder I preferred the Suhr. One cool thing about the suhr, is that you can find the schematic and so if one wanted to tweak, they could. I added the high cut to the Suhr RL, wasn't terribly difficult.

Still wish there was more comparisons for the Fractal load box, at $299, just seems like a great deal, but don't see many reviews.

 

[easstudios]

If nothing else this thread has reinforced to me, that just like speakers and cabs, you have to match the load box to the amp.

When I was testing the Suhr RLIR against the Fryette PS2, the Soldano HR25 loves greenback style speakers, so no wonder I preferred the Suhr. One cool thing about the suhr, is that you can find the schematic and so if one wanted to tweak, they could. I added the high cut to the Suhr RL, wasn't terribly difficult.

Still wish there was more comparisons for the Fractal load box, at $299, just seems like a great deal, but don't see many reviews.

This is exactly how I see it - FWIW I think all the modern reactive load boxes (with the resonant bass peak) follow the same Aiken design which is freely available online. He gives the formula and it’s down to the individual to make whatever curve they like.

It’s quite easy to build from scratch or mod them if you see fit - they should all be somewhat similar.

 

[easstudios]

This thread led me to making a quick video as I'd made some IR's today and was testing their accuracy. My goal is always to ensure that when you use a load box with the amp, that you can achieve the same tones as you would when micing it up normally. The key really is being aware of the load's you're dealing with, and picking appropriate IR's.

I love discussing this stuff, but sometimes its easier to back up what I'm saying just by demonstrating it. Friedman BE100 2016, Marshall 1960B fitted with 1999 V30's. sm57->Chandler TG2->Neve 1073 style line amp



I actually was close to including a pass with Helix's Friedman and one of my IR's too just to show it sounding accurate with those (just to show the IR's are equally accurate with other gear) but felt like it was getting away from the point a bit.

 

[blackba]

Anyone tried the Audiostorm Reactive load? https://www.seanmandrake.com/Products/ReactiveLoad.aspx

 

[mnemonic]

This is exactly how I see it - FWIW I think all the modern reactive load boxes (with the resonant bass peak) follow the same Aiken design which is freely available online. He gives the formula and it’s down to the individual to make whatever curve they like.

It’s quite easy to build from scratch or mod them if you see fit - they should all be somewhat similar.

This, I built my own and tweaked the values using ltspice to model it so it had the same impedence curve as I measured from my cab. Sounds great, if I run my recto into it and then reamp into my cab with a solidstate power amp, sounds the same as the amp direct into the cab (when volume-matched). Even retains the punch the recto has, which I was worried I’d lose.

I added a switch to mine that shorts the reactive elements so it’s just resistive so I can a/b between resistive and reactive. Kind of eye-opening in that some amps (like my recto) it’s night-and-day difference but some amps it’s almost not noticeable.

 

[easstudios]

This, I built my own and tweaked the values using ltspice to model it so it had the same impedence curve as I measured from my cab. Sounds great, if I run my recto into it and then reamp into my cab with a solidstate power amp, sounds the same as the amp direct into the cab (when volume-matched). Even retains the punch the recto has, which I was worried I’d lose.

I added a switch to mine that shorts the reactive elements so it’s just resistive so I can a/b between resistive and reactive. Kind of eye-opening in that some amps (like my recto) it’s night-and-day difference but some amps it’s almost not noticeable.

do you mind if I ask how you measured your impedance curve? did you use room EQ wizard?

I’d love to have a reactive load that matched some of my cabs (particularly some of the Mesa 4x12’s). Likewise, I’ve compared the tone of how various loads affect my amps but I’d love to measure the response of the cabs too to see it visually.

 

[mnemonic]

do you mind if I ask how you measured your impedance curve? did you use room EQ wizard?

I’d love to have a reactive load that matched some of my cabs (particularly some of the Mesa 4x12’s). Likewise, I’ve compared the tone of how various loads affect my amps but I’d love to measure the response of the cabs too to see it visually.

Yes, room eq wizard, they have a page on their website that shows how to do an impedence measurement.

I saw the Dayton audio DATS can be used to do an impedence measurement also but I didn’t really want to spend the money on it.

 

[DECEMBER]

I should probably experiment with comparing the sound from using the load box alone versus while also being connected to a cab

Yes, the Suhr's internal load boosts the bass and scoops the mids way too much. But when I connect a V30 or MC-90 to the Thru, the line out into my IRs of my speakers sounds great, and very close to the sound of the mic'd speakers. But that defeats the purpose of silent recording. But the internal load sounds terrible.
I'm trying to order some others to compare it to before the 30 day return window is up. I ordered a Fractal X-Load on Saturday and paid $62 for priority mail...it's now Thursday and they still haven't sent it out! I'm thinking about the MB Powerhouse, but it's almost $600 and I don't need an attenuator, just a load.

 

[Bardagh]

Yes, the Suhr's internal load boosts the bass and scoops the mids way too much. But when I connect a V30 or MC-90 to the Thru, the line out into my IRs of my speakers sounds great, and very close to the sound of the mic'd speakers. But that defeats the purpose of silent recording. But the internal load sounds terrible.
I'm trying to order some others to compare it to before the 30 day return window is up. I ordered a Fractal X-Load on Saturday and paid $62 for priority mail...it's now Thursday and they still haven't sent it out! I'm thinking about the MB Powerhouse, but it's almost $600 and I don't need an attenuator, just a load.

I never followed up in this thread with my experience comparing the two but found the same - defeating the internal load resulted in a more natural result through good IR's. But as you say it's also defeating the purpose I have for the thing, which is working silently when I just want to concentrate on songwriting. Although, the internal load sounds pretty good with my JCM 800 which is the biggest offender volume wise.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Yes, the Suhr's internal load boosts the bass and scoops the mids way too much. But when I connect a V30 or MC-90 to the Thru, the line out into my IRs of my speakers sounds great, and very close to the sound of the mic'd speakers. But that defeats the purpose of silent recording. But the internal load sounds terrible.

The impedance curve of that device is all wrong.. it's that simple.

For $200 in components, it's a easy project to build.

 

[DECEMBER]

The impedance curve of that device is all wrong.. it's that simple.

For $200 in components, it's a easy project to build.

Yeah, I'm no good with soldering. I have Tourette's syndrome (a movement disorder), so I can't hold still and be precise with the iron. I burned the finish on my brand new bass while replacing the pickups and I melted the beveled edge of an expensive custom pickguard when replacing the pickups in my guitar. I can't get the solder to stick and often end up burning pots because it took so long to get a wire to stick.
So I gave up on soldering and switched all my guitars to solderless EMGs.
That "$200 project" would probably cost me $500 by the time I finished, if I even could manage to finish it right. Soldering just isn't an option for me, and is more trouble than it's worth.
What are my next best options for a load box that won't make my line/slave outs sound like Suhr's does?
THD Hot Plate
Mesa/Boogie Powerhouse
Audiostorm reactive load... ?
I'm trying to avoid TwoNotes stuff because all of their IRs are absolute trash, their built-in Torpedo thing in the Revv G20 was absolutely horrid and useless, and I've seen more bad reviews of their Captors than of any other brand's load/attenuator boxes.

 

[Chronic Narnia]

Yeah, I'm no good with soldering. I have Tourette's syndrome (a movement disorder), so I can't hold still and be precise with the iron. I burned the finish on my brand new bass while replacing the pickups and I melted the beveled edge of an expensive custom pickguard when replacing the pickups in my guitar. I can't get the solder to stick and often end up burning pots because it took so long to get a wire to stick.
So I gave up on soldering and switched all my guitars to solderless EMGs.
That "$200 project" would probably cost me $500 by the time I finished, if I even could manage to finish it right. Soldering just isn't an option for me, and is more trouble than it's worth.
What are my next best options for a load box that won't make my line/slave outs sound like Suhr's does?
THD Hot Plate
Mesa/Boogie Powerhouse
Audiostorm reactive load... ?
I'm trying to avoid TwoNotes stuff because all of their IRs are absolute trash, their built-in Torpedo thing in the Revv G20 was absolutely horrid and useless, and I've seen more bad reviews of their Captors than of any other brand's load/attenuator boxes.

I’d be curious to hear what you think about the X-Load. I have a Fryette Powerstation but have been wanting to try the RedSeven Reactive Load and the new React IR II.

 

[DECEMBER]

I’d be curious to hear what you think about the X-Load. I have a Fryette Powerstation but have been wanting to try the RedSeven Reactive Load and the new React IR II.

If they ever send it... I ordered it on Saturday and it's still not shipped and they're not responding to any emails.

 

[Jccobb2]

I just got the st rock react II. It’s too early for a glowing review but initial impression is very positive. It’s a reactive load that does stereo with different IRs in each channel if you want. It also has an attenuator that can run at the same time as the xlr out to a cabinet so you can feed FoH and monitor yourself with a real cab that you control the volume to.

For 500 bucks shipped it’s a no brainer

 

[DECEMBER]

I just got the st rock react II. It’s too early for a glowing review but initial impression is very positive. It’s a reactive load that does stereo with different IRs in each channel if you want. It also has an attenuator that can run at the same time as the xlr out to a cabinet so you can feed FoH and monitor yourself with a real cab that you control the volume to.

For 500 bucks shipped it’s a no brainer

Where do you get that? A search brings up tons of YouTube and forum mentions, and a few sold Reverb listings, but none actually for sale anywhere.
If it only has a mono speaker input, then stereo output is pretty useless (like the "stereo" Captor). You still need 2 load boxes if you have an actual stereo rig, and 3 load boxes if you have a wet/dry/wet stereo rig.
I don't need an attenuator or IR loader, or even another line out. My amp has a slave out that sounds perfect thru the IRs I made in the DAW... if a speaker is connected, which defeats the purpose of silent recording. When I use a Suhr RL instead of a speaker, the DI sound becomes very boomy and mid-scooped. I just need a simple dummy load that'll make the slave out sound the same as it does with my speaker(s) connected. But the only 'just a load' boxes out there are the Julius Music Box Amp Pad (just a coil of wire and a tiny heat sink in a box), and the Audiostorm reactive load, which comes from the UK, so a return would be a waste if it ended up being a fail like the Suhr RL was.

 

[mcstinger]

Where do you get that?

https://st-rock.com/shop/reactirii/

 

[Jccobb2]

Where do you get that? A search brings up tons of YouTube and forum mentions, and a few sold Reverb listings, but none actually for sale anywhere.
If it only has a mono speaker input, then stereo output is pretty useless (like the "stereo" Captor). You still need 2 load boxes if you have an actual stereo rig, and 3 load boxes if you have a wet/dry/wet stereo rig.
I don't need an attenuator or IR loader, or even another line out. My amp has a slave out that sounds perfect thru the IRs I made in the DAW... if a speaker is connected, which defeats the purpose of silent recording. When I use a Suhr RL instead of a speaker, the DI sound becomes very boomy and mid-scooped. I just need a simple dummy load that'll make the slave out sound the same as it does with my speaker(s) connected. But the only 'just a load' boxes out there are the Julius Music Box Amp Pad (just a coil of wire and a tiny heat sink in a box), and the Audiostorm reactive load, which comes from the UK, so a return would be a waste if it ended up being a fail like the Suhr RL was.

stereo out isn't useless, it has full stereo routing. you can take a single amp in and have different IRs for left and right. you can also route the l/r feeds through stereo digital effects either in your DAW or out via stereo outs.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

The impedance curve of that device is all wrong.. it's that simple.

For $200 in components, it's a easy project to build.

Really? I thought the Suhr was the benchmark? Is the curve of your device more accurate? What in comparison to? A V30, Greenback?

 

[Greazygeo]

Where do you get that? A search brings up tons of YouTube and forum mentions, and a few sold Reverb listings, but none actually for sale anywhere.
If it only has a mono speaker input, then stereo output is pretty useless (like the "stereo" Captor). You still need 2 load boxes if you have an actual stereo rig, and 3 load boxes if you have a wet/dry/wet stereo rig.
I don't need an attenuator or IR loader, or even another line out. My amp has a slave out that sounds perfect thru the IRs I made in the DAW... if a speaker is connected, which defeats the purpose of silent recording. When I use a Suhr RL instead of a speaker, the DI sound becomes very boomy and mid-scooped. I just need a simple dummy load that'll make the slave out sound the same as it does with my speaker(s) connected. But the only 'just a load' boxes out there are the Julius Music Box Amp Pad (just a coil of wire and a tiny heat sink in a box), and the Audiostorm reactive load, which comes from the UK, so a return would be a waste if it ended up being a fail like the Suhr RL was.

Have you checked phase?