Smash
Hack
I think he is saying playing/song trash
Digital Modelers vs Tube Amps
- Thread starter PDC
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rsm
Well-known member
once you get a modeler or software plugin patch dialed in, it's pretty much plug in and play too. just can take longer to dial it in , much longer if you get into all the options and deep parameters.
One reason I like the guitar plugins I use, many have amps and cabs matched, even those that support 3rd party IRs, etc. I typically stick to the matched sets, and may mess with mic type and location, but I don't use 3rd party IRs, there are literally 10s of thousands, free and pay...ain't got no time for that.
If I'm using a Marshall amp model, I'll use Marshall cabs with different speakers; turn of the mic, and get the combination of amp and cab dialed in, then go through the mics, narrow those down, then adjust positions. After doing it awhile, I kinda know what I like as a starting point which saves time, but it took me awhile to get to this point of knowledge and experience.
midnightlaundry
Well-known member
I like the band. Nobody is putting them on the main stage at WACKEN to fail. They have the means to bring what they want and what they brought sounds like shit. Play a fuckin Amp, not a Toaster..
Even the Drums are triggered. Listen to the sounds those Drums make.. He's not hitting them that hard..
Are you there to analyze the band and how they logistically get their sound, or are you there to enjoy the band? Everything is triggered in metal, especially the kick, and for good fucking reason. Many drummers will use samples they themselves made during heir bands sessions with their actual kit to layer on top for consistency even in live shows, who gives a shit? I honestly don’t understand this logic at all. And I also dont understand what this statement has to do with your original statement insinuating the band sounds like shit becsuse they are using modelers.
saxxamafone
Well-known member
If I was playing live again today, I'd run a tube head, load box with IRs to FOH with a 2x12 on stage for monitoring. Add a couple of pedals and I'm sorted.
Soon as you're getting on planes.. that's a different story and I see why players are full digital then
Soon as you're getting on planes.. that's a different story and I see why players are full digital then
Bram576
Well-known member
midnightlaundry
Well-known member
WHAT YOU JUST SAID is METAL BANDS are fuckin LAZY, don't maintain and PLAY their instruments but play FAKE toys and Backup Tracks.. ..When I go to a show I go to see a performance by real musicians, not a fake dress up party.. Lame! GO do a Beer Bong and post it on Instagram yo.. But hey, they were on stage, so it must be real.
Here's a REAL DRUMMER..
rsm
Well-known member
modern music, especially metal, has become a joke / caricature of itself IMO. mostly derivative, lacking originality, overplayed and overused patterns, etc.,...
with all the technology, tools, etc., to enhance skills, fix issues, combined with the derivative, similar sounding music, downtuned to ridiculous levels of mud....
I'm all for technology as tools, but the cut and paste, snap-to-grid time alignment, auto-tune, backing tracks, etc. to make up for shortcomings goes too far for me. At that point, let the AI write it, arrange it, master it and perform it.
I'm not saying there aren't talented musicians and good music, but I think much of that gets lost in the modern, tool-rich processes.
with all the technology, tools, etc., to enhance skills, fix issues, combined with the derivative, similar sounding music, downtuned to ridiculous levels of mud....
I'm all for technology as tools, but the cut and paste, snap-to-grid time alignment, auto-tune, backing tracks, etc. to make up for shortcomings goes too far for me. At that point, let the AI write it, arrange it, master it and perform it.
I'm not saying there aren't talented musicians and good music, but I think much of that gets lost in the modern, tool-rich processes.
rsm
Well-known member
agreed.
when I hear bands today at local clubs, it's old school: amps on stage, vocals (sometimes drums) in the PA. Bigger venues with better live sound systems, it's more mixed bag; modelers, mic'd amps, etc.. I've seen a few bands using modelers into the PA at really small clubs, no mics on the drums, etc.
How I play a modeler is different than how I play a tube amp; both require a different approach and mindset. I don't look at making the experience the same as a goal. What does it sound like, and does it work and sound good? I can adjust to the differences. Playing my guitar direct into my 1959HW full stack is fun, but not practical even at home; and I like the "fully produced" sounds I get from my computer guitar rig; not the same physical experience, but in the end, I like the results, both sound good to me.
4406cuda
Well-known member
I believe Dave Murray is using Fracatal
sacguy71
Member
yup but most likely they use some sort of power amp with the Fractal. I am betting on it.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/iron-maiden-dave-murray-axe-fx
If I buy a Fractal and consider it as I already have plenty of tube amps and pedals, my modeler would go into a small power tube amp.
4406cuda
Well-known member
I love tube amps and still have a Friedman. I play in a cover band where I need to cover songs recordered on Vox, Marshall, Boogies, Blackface, etc.
It is great using a Fractal for all the amp options, cabs, effects, and pitch changers for bands that tune down or use a capo.
The video below I am go through FOH and using Fender FR-12’s for stage volume.
It is great using a Fractal for all the amp options, cabs, effects, and pitch changers for bands that tune down or use a capo.
The video below I am go through FOH and using Fender FR-12’s for stage volume.
rsm
Well-known member
I'm guessing what determines what touring bands use on the road is a combination of touring costs and options that can work; with compromises.
I can see bands that have / make the money to afford touring with whatever gear they want, have more options. Some still choose to use modelers even though they can afford to tour with tube amps and cabs. Some bands that don't really have an "anything goes" touring budget still manage to tour with tube amps and cabs.
last I heard, Kiss was touring with tube amps and cabs; some on stage, others in iso mic'd to FOH; not sure but Gene was still using Tech 21 Sans Amp into a VT Bass 1969, a 300W bass head; Paul was using a custom Engl Artist Edition 100, and Tommy his signature H&K tube amp...but they have an expensive tour rig, I'm sure the cost of touring with their real amps and many guitars is small compared to the cost of the custom stage they toured with; same for U2, AC/DC, and others. Kiss also had backups and spares for all their gear.
Some bands who have the money still choose to tour with modelers, eg., Metallica.
not that I have a national or world tour to consider, but imagining I did, it would depend on what music I was playing.
If it was 70s-80s hard rock, thrash, metal, I'd just need my ISP Theta Pro DSP Michael Sweet (and a spare unit with my patches), and a backline with a 6L6GC power amp, and v30 loaded cabs, which is probably easy enough to source in most places although I have my own.
That said, I could do everything I need with my computer rig, live and in a studio; it fits in a 2U soft carry rack bag that's small enough to fit as carry-on. I'd have a second rig of spare components, that I could swap in if needed. and would just need FRFR cabs wherever I played. It has headphones so I could use it in the hotel too.
rsm
Well-known member
Neural DSP makes some of my favorite guitar plugins; I own a few: Archetype Petrucci, Plini X, Henson, and Mesa IIC+ Suite.
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I'll be honest with you. If I paid good money and went to a metal show and realized the band I went to see was using triggers and other gay accessories I would throw shit at them and boo loudly. If you use samples and stuff like that for live work, your band sucks and you are a fat loser with body odor.Just my opinion but live means live.
rsm
Well-known member
Bands have always used tools live to improve their live performances. I think they're fine up to a point.
Once a band starts using backing tracks, pre-recorded parts, auto-tune, etc., I think it goes too far. I'll give a pass to a band that used an orchestra in the studio (e.g., ELP's Works; they toured with a full orchestra but it nearly bankrupted the band, so they had to drop it).
I've seen videos of bands that are a four piece (e.g., Pink Floyd), have so many extra musicians on stage that it ceased to be PF, and more like PF and friends. Female backing vocalists, special guest musician for a few songs, etc. fine; but extra guitarists, keys, etc., wtf? Who am I actually hearing?!
When I see a live show, I'm not looking for perfection nor am I hoping it sounds like I'm listening to the studio recording; I expect to hear the actual band, playing their actual instruments, playing their actual songs, as best they can in a live setting without extra help and tools that are used as crutches to deal with their shortcomings live.
Once a band starts using backing tracks, pre-recorded parts, auto-tune, etc., I think it goes too far. I'll give a pass to a band that used an orchestra in the studio (e.g., ELP's Works; they toured with a full orchestra but it nearly bankrupted the band, so they had to drop it).
I've seen videos of bands that are a four piece (e.g., Pink Floyd), have so many extra musicians on stage that it ceased to be PF, and more like PF and friends. Female backing vocalists, special guest musician for a few songs, etc. fine; but extra guitarists, keys, etc., wtf? Who am I actually hearing?!
When I see a live show, I'm not looking for perfection nor am I hoping it sounds like I'm listening to the studio recording; I expect to hear the actual band, playing their actual instruments, playing their actual songs, as best they can in a live setting without extra help and tools that are used as crutches to deal with their shortcomings live.