Digital Modelers vs Tube Amps

  • Thread starter Thread starter PDC
  • Start date Start date
My buddies who use Fractals have Such GOOD Live Tone - Period. Over time, they have mastered the deep-dive menus to really reproduce the bite and the sizzle and the ‘thump’ of a truly great tube amp. I honestly do not know how the ‘feel’ of playing through their properly dialed in Fractals would compare to the ‘feel’ of the comparable box of glass and 4x12. But from my own admittedly limited time playing all sorts of live venues with ‘real’ amps, I can say that in many places, our stage volume had to be dialed back as not to overwhelm the PA - and by the time my guitar sound was routed through the monitor board into the main board and out the PA, I wasn’t really playing in direct reaction to the ‘feel’ of the amp anymore. I was just playing - and at different spots on the stage, I was either hearing (predominantly) my 4x12, or one of the monitors, or catching a bit of the PA. I am betting that if I had someone who knew the menus to dial in a Fractal for me, I would be hard pressed to tell you the difference in the middle of a live performance between the Fractal or the tube amp it was modeling for me.
 
PDC said:
Over time, they have mastered the deep-dive menus to really reproduce the bite and the sizzle and the ‘thump’ of a truly great tube amp.
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This to me seems to be it, the tones are in there if youre willing to spend the time and tweak, ive seen more guys over the years though do the “I opened it at lunch and it was packed back up by dinner” because they can’t be bothered to push a button and then they say the things suck
 
RaceU4her said:
This to me seems to be it, the tones are in there if youre willing to spend the time and tweak, ive seen more guys over the years though do the “I opened it at lunch and it was packed back up by dinner” because they can’t be bothered to push a button and then they say the things suck
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I think the best thing about a Kemper is that it’s the lazy man’s modeler. Sure you could spend hours deep diving into settings if you wanted to, or you could spend like 10 bucks and buy a profile package recorded in some nice studios with world class gear by someone who already did the tweaking.
 
Dudes are talking about taking deep dives when all I wanna do is go swimming down at the river not free dive for pearls at 100 feet.

Menus are for restaurants.

I'll think of some more stupid quips that support my digital modeling hatred.
 
From my experience, modelers these days can sound like tube amps. There are some very good modelers and very good SS amps and have been for quite awhile. Certainly no one at your bar gig would ever hear the difference. Nothing "Feels" like a tube amp other than a tube amp though. These days I am a bedroom player and happy to report that other than some bass rigs I have in storage (GK 1001RB, Hartke 3500) all my amps are tube amps.

'61 Fender Brown Deluxe
'89 SVT II (non pro)
Bronco white PCB Vox AC10cx
 
midnightlaundry said:
I don't know..
This sounds like shit to me..

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Ok, and? So because you think/know it’s a modeler of some kind, that is 100 percent the reason it sounds like shit? Wow, I learn something new everyday. Correlation is not causation, something people need to be painfully reminded of it seems.
 
VESmedic said:
Ok, and? So because you think/know it’s a modeler of some kind, that is 100 percent the reason it sounds like shit? Wow, I learn something new everyday. Correlation is not causation, something people need to be painfully reminded of it seems.
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C'mon man, modelers are the amp equivalent to playing a PRS. Once people know you play PRS your tone then sucks until you switch to an authentic real deal LP double cut.
 
Software plugins for guitar have come a long way. Many of the factory presets are useable as-is, and provide a great way to learn by example, and as a starting point for my own patches. Most of the presets are setup for live or recording, i.e., are mic'd, but you can turn that off in most cases, and get a more direct, less polished, raw "amp-in-the-room" sounds

Many of these plugins offer free trials; I think my computer rig (computer, wireless keyboard/trackpad, touchscreen monitor, audio interface, HDMI extension cable (optional) was around $1500 or less; many of the plugins I got on sale. Finally got it mounted in a 2U soft case a few months ago., which was $130. I already had a KMI SoftStep2 MIDI floor controller which I use to switch patches, though it can do more MIDI commands; also has TRS input for an expression pedal.

Unlike Fractals, Kempers, Helixes, etc., I can upgrade various components of my computer rig as needed, ...and some these current modelers have been out for many years without a significant hardware upgrades (except Fractal, but they're just squeezing more out of their III version, with Mk 2, Mk 2 Turbo, etc.). I think a hardware refresh is coming for some of these.
 
VESmedic said:
If by deep dive, you mean pull up an amp model and a good IR, then yea: it REALLLYYYY takes some deep diving to get amazing tones on something like the axe fx.
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I think the biggest challenge for many, including me, are the sheer high numbers of options and combinations, not just the number of parameters. You have amp, cab, mic, mic placement, etc. combinations. Even taking one amp model that you like, and cycling through 20+ cabs / IRs with various mics and mic positions...by the time you get to #20, what did #1-10 sound like in comparison...easy to get lost in analysis paralysis IMO.
 
VESmedic said:
If by deep dive, you mean pull up an amp model and a good IR, then yea: it REALLLYYYY takes some deep diving to get amazing tones on something like the axe fx.
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I don’t even know how to change profiles on my physical Kemper yet. I just point and click in rig manager. My Kemper not hooked to my laptop might as well be an actual toaster.
 
Justin Bailey said:
I don’t even know how to change profiles on my physical Kemper yet. I just point and click in rig manager. My Kemper not hooked to my laptop might as well be an actual toaster.
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I have my doubts about the toast.

LOL
 
Justin Bailey said:
I don’t even know how to change profiles on my physical Kemper yet. I just point and click in rig manager. My Kemper not hooked to my laptop might as well be an actual toaster.
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This is how i would be. I have heard them live. I cannot tell difference when going to front of house or if they ran through power section? But the guy had a footswitch, and when he it, the boost or chNnel change was intense.

But i cant speak to feel. However, i couldnt be happier with my tube amp. It just stays with same settings and makes me happy. Plug and play
 
Smash said:
This is how i would be. I have heard them live. I cannot tell difference when going to front of house or if they ran through power section? But the guy had a footswitch, and when he it, the boost or chNnel change was intense.

But i cant speak to feel. However, i couldnt be happier with my tube amp. It just stays with same settings and makes me happy. Plug and play
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My experience at least is that in the room jamming by myself, a Kemper through a loud studio monitor is not the same as a tube amp through a 4x12. It’s not going to blow back the hair on your legs. It’s not as fun. But for anything less than “too loud for the house”, I think my Kemper sounds just as good and at low volumes, sounds better. And of course it’s a no brainer for silent playing at night.

I would say my Kemper through monitors is equal to a tube amp to a captor X and into the same monitors.

When it comes to recorded tones, it’s a tough call. Personally the consistency and simplicity of a Kemper is enough to not want to go through micing up a cab. But I just make shitty recordings in my basement so take it with a grain of salt.

When I worked at a casino I got to see so many bands come through and I bet 90% were either using Kempers or a Helix
 
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