A Lesson In Tone: Master Of Puppets

  • Thread starter Thread starter VESmedic
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Nice clip VES, sounds killer.

Puppets is a great example of just how much the playing influences what we think of as tone.

Personally while I think MOP is a masterpiece of songs and riffs, I don't think all that much of the Master of Puppets tone, it's kind of boring to me. It's a lot lower gain than you'd think it would be, and a lot more vintage than you'd think as well. BUT, James' playing on that album is so goddamn ferocious and energetic, and the songs and riffs are so goddamn awesome that it's hard to separate the tone from the playing and writing, and it leaves you thinking about how awesome the "tone" is, and if only you could get that "sound" too then you'd be unstoppable. In this case though, almost all of the most important elements of that sound are in James' right hand.

I'd encourage any guitar player with a recording rig to really sit down and try to get that song right. Now double track it. Don't leave until it's as laser focused and precise as James' cuts. I bet most people would be there for a while.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Nice clip VES, sounds killer.

Puppets is a great example of just how much the playing influences what we think of as tone.

Personally while I think MOP is a masterpiece of songs and riffs, I don't think all that much of the Master of Puppets tone, it's kind of boring to me. It's a lot lower gain than you'd think it would be, and a lot more vintage than you'd think as well. BUT, James' playing on that album is so goddamn ferocious and energetic, and the songs and riffs are so goddamn awesome that it's hard to separate the tone from the playing and writing, and it leaves you thinking about how awesome the "tone" is, and if only you could get that "sound" too then you'd be unstoppable. In this case though, almost all of the most important elements of that sound are in James' right hand.

I'd encourage any guitar player with a recording rig to really sit down and try to get that song right. Now double track it. Don't leave until it's as laser focused and precise as James' cuts. I bet most people would be there for a while.
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I did Disposable Heroes with my hermansson over the actual Lars track, sounds ferocious


https://app.box.com/s/zgaebvzm5vfjic3lvmmohl5arzgv02us
 
RaceU4her said:
I did Disposable Heroes with my hermansson over the actual Lars track, sounds ferocious


https://app.box.com/s/zgaebvzm5vfjic3lvmmohl5arzgv02us
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Hell yeah dude.

Also btw I'm not saying only James can play like that, I'm saying the ferocity, the vibe of the track, comes from playing. The amp needs to be relatively tight and have some gain going on, but the most important part of tight speed metal is the player's right hand.

It sounds like I'm making a "tone is in the fingers" argument, but I guess in this case I'd say the degree to which "playing" vs "equipment selection and configuration" matter is directly correlated with the intricacy of the performance. If you're just kind of throwing out half or whole-note chords, then everything you hear is going to be the gear itself. But if you're playing something as intricate and demanding as Master of Puppets or Disposable Heroes, then the thing your ear is going to remember is the nuances of the playing.

HOWEVER, I'm getting off topic. We know this stuff already, hah. This thread was pretty specifically about IR's and compression techniques. And going back and listening, I totally hear the compression @VESmedic is talking about, especially when those extra emphasis tracks pop in and you can almost hear the compressor pumping. Definitely an important ingredient for sure, and VES is right, you never hear that element talked about.
 
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I swear I’m the only one who thinks puppets tone us just ok . I think the tone sounds way better at times when it’s alone . But while the band plays it’s just so normal . Idk justice Black album loss/rejad and even st anger tone is better imo . Idk .i always found it bland
Don’t kill me
 
Techdeth said:
I swear I’m the only one who thinks puppets tone us just ok . I think the tone sounds way better at times when it’s alone . But while the band plays it’s just so normal . Idk justice Black album loss/rejad and even st anger tone is better imo . Idk .i always found it bland
Don’t kill me
Click to expand...
Divine Disorientation
 
Techdeth said:
I swear I’m the only one who thinks puppets tone us just ok . I think the tone sounds way better at times when it’s alone . But while the band plays it’s just so normal . Idk justice Black album loss/rejad and even st anger tone is better imo . Idk .i always found it bland
Don’t kill me
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I agree and think plenty others would too. Most just fail to separate between quality of tone, playing and the music itself. The latter 2 were the great parts of that album. The tone, like you said, imo was ok to decent, but not their best. Those other albums you mentioned imo had great tones, I just didn’t like the songs (music itself). I actually hated the tone on their first album Kill Them All and didn’t like the tone of Ride The Lightning either (too bloated sounding), but love the songs on them
 
Anyone have info on this? 1982?

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20241120_124356.jpg
 
braintheory said:
I agree and think plenty others would too. Most just fail to separate between quality of tone, playing and the music itself. The latter 2 were the great parts of that album. The tone, like you said, imo was ok to decent, but not their best. Those other albums you mentioned imo had great tones, I just didn’t like the songs (music itself). I actually hated the tone on their first album Kill Them All and didn’t like the tone of Ride The Lightning either (too bloated sounding), but love the songs on them
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I love the album . Just thought the tone was bland . They made it better as they went
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Hell yeah dude.

Also btw I'm not saying only James can play like that, I'm saying the ferocity, the vibe of the track, comes from playing. The amp needs to be relatively tight and have some gain going on, but the most important part of tight speed metal is the player's right hand.

It sounds like I'm making a "tone is in the fingers" argument, but I guess in this case I'd say the degree to which "playing" vs "equipment selection and configuration" matter is directly correlated with the intricacy of the performance. If you're just kind of throwing out half or whole-note chords, then everything you hear is going to be the gear itself. But if you're playing something as intricate and demanding as Master of Puppets or Disposable Heroes, then the thing your ear is going to remember is the nuances of the playing.

HOWEVER, I'm getting off topic. We know this stuff already, hah. This thread was pretty specifically about IR's and compression techniques. And going back and listening, I totally hear the compression @VESmedic is talking about, especially when those extra emphasis tracks pop in and you can almost hear the compressor pumping. Definitely an important ingredient for sure, and VES is right, you never hear that element talked about.
Click to expand...
I agree that a big part of your tone comes from your pick attack. The rest is from your gear.
 
Nah, tone on MOP was epic, at least for the final mix anyway. Nothing sounded like that then and nothing has really since. Black album has no growl, they sucked it all out. Drums sound amazing on it but the guitars are subdued in the mix and have no balls.
I actually really like how nasty KEA sounds. When they let the chords ring out it’s meaner than almost anything I’ve heard. Love that.
Their Load stuff and after is just a huge miss for me. Too soft for metal and too bloated and sucked out for classic rock.
 
Both James and Kirk specifically mention 65w speakers in interviews around the time of the album. Seems like they both recall that same detail regarding the cabs.
I get that the studio notes say 300w, but I'm thinking that the notes are in error perhaps, esp considering the amount of other tone hunting people over the 40 years that have also researched and came to the same conclusion that it was most likely 65w speakers instead, esp after playing the two types and hearing the difference as VES has shown here.

8YgWEaF.png


KuagvN5.png


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YYIjMDBXFPks2fKm7xuGOkRSpvvZ0H0G ('Metal Monsters' pg 97 Hammett Interview)
 
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