Does it matter where it's made?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rsm
  • Start date Start date
I mean... if the materials come from the right place in the world and are assembled by humans who have been trained correctly... I'm not sure the specific geographic location of the CNC machine or the room where the parts are glued and screwed together matter so long as temperature and humidity are controlled.

So in that sense I don't think it matters. But in the sense that the right training needs to be there and proper R&D involved then yeah there are only a few places in the world I'd trust a guitar to have originated, again at least in concept and raw materials.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
I mean... if the materials come from the right place in the world and are assembled by humans who have been trained correctly... I'm not sure the location of the CNC machine matters so long as temperature and humidity are controlled.

So in that sense I don't think it matters. But in the sense that the right training needs to be there and proper R&D involved then yeah there are only a few places in the world I'd trust a guitar to be made.
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Many places outside of the USA can make top quality items, it takes the intent and investment to make it happen. Japan and South Korea are two examples of where the intent, investment and effort was made to produce top tier products including guitars.

For now, China, Indonesia and Vietnam are being used to produce entry level, lower cost items in large numbers - not because they can't produce top tier products, because what's needed from low cost manufacturing are low cost products.

China has a long history, before Mao, of making quality products.

IMO.
 
Matter in what way? A great guitar could be built anywhere. But there’s way more to it than just the actual guitar. People get attached to their instruments so it gets complicated. I can’t believe what some FCS guitars sell for, what makes them so much more expensive than a MIM? They are just bolt-on Strats, often built by a Mexican.
 
rsm said:
Many places outside of the USA can make top quality items, it takes the intent and investment to make it happen. Japan and South Korea are two examples of where the intent, investment and effort was made to produce top tier products including guitars.

For now, China, Indonesia and Vietnam are being used to produce entry level, lower cost items in large numbers - not because they can't produce top tier products, because what's needed from low cost manufacturing are low cost products.

China has a long history, before Mao, of making quality products.

IMO.
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There's a few extra pieces to that equation as well. You also have to take quality control into account. Your examples of Japan & S. Korea not only invested in making higher quality. The higher end factories typically use better/best quality parts and have higher quality standards on what goes out the door. It's why certain factories gained the reputation they have.

On the other end places like China, Indonesia, and Vietnam are certainly capable of producing top tier instruments, but that's not the market they're targeting or the reputation they have. Their aiming at beginner and intermediate guitars in large quantities. They look to cut costs as much as the can to increase profit. Quality control is not as stringent in these factories so more defects make it out with normal productions. Hardware, pickups, & electronics are lower quality too. That doesn't mean it's a crap instrument, just that some quality is sacrificed for higher production.

I know you've recently experienced my 2nd point with that mirror Iceman from China. You've said it's a great playing guitar which shows fit and finish can be good-high quality. But it had those glue splotches under the finish which says lower quality control standards. A US or Japan made guitar would have never made it anywhere close to going out the door with that defect. At worst the body would have been sold off as a factory reject.

I really think a basic high school lesson on production economics and diminishing returns coves this whole thing.
 
Most of my guitars are built in the USA. Because I like Gibson Les Pauls. I have been willing to pay that premium price for US workers, because I believe that Gibson makes a better product than Epiphone. I also own a US PRS S2. While the SE line is very good, I feel that nitro lacquer makes a difference in how a guitar will sound as it ages. (I also got a screaming deal on the guitar.) I also own two Charvel ProMod San Dimas guitars. With Fender products, you can pay for Mexican workers to build your guitar in Mexico or pay Mexican workers to build you guitar in the US for more money. One of the nicest guitars that I have purchased in the past few years is an ESP LTD JM-II. The fit and finish are top notch. But for the $$$ they cost; I expect the guitar to be good.
 
My guitars are like my cars. Buy Japanese and American. Just better quality. That doesn’t mean a piece of coal can’t make it in with the “jems” but in general, I stick to that mantra. Having said that I don’t collect guitars, only amplifiers; and those are from Europe and US.
 
China makes some of the most sought after classical/barouque instruments in the world that can be tens of thousands to hundreds of thousand of $. The Gibson Zero and M2 models used both import hardware and electronics and were run at the end of the tooling life of the production line. This also happened in the early 80s (outside of obvious schaller) with their superbuckers and ping tuners that were on a few models.

I have a Martin MIM (000-14) that basically the only difference between it and it's US counterpart is hide glue and $2k. They actually have the same tooling and reset/replacement times and get the wood from the same source. Although the MIM variants of the specific model do gamble on whether the neck is made from maple or mahogany (hence adevertized as select hardwoods instead of what wood it is) depending on which is cheaper at the time of production whereas the same US model will always get the mahogany neck.

I have a ton of information about production and costs from FujiGen, WMI, and Cort when I had inquired a few years ago when I was interested in starting my own brand when I though I might open up a shop.

The information given to me was very interesting outside of labor and hardware/electronic costs to include tooling and reset time costs (which doesn't just affect how tight a neck to a body is or gap sizes in cavities, but how long it's holding up the production line to replace tools where time=money), wood choices (not just wood type but cuts and how long the wood had been drying/kilned, overall moisure content where 12% was cheaper and 6% was quite more) more expensive glues were actually cheaper because they were easier to work with and cleanup, especially in the event of a mistake that may cause an instrument to be tossed or go back down the production line to be fixed which would affect tooling/cleanup. A lot of other factors, but basically if you see two similar models of guitars from the same brand at the same price and one has better hardware/electroincs, chances are the other used better wood, glue, tooling, and possibly frets.
 
DanTravis62 said:
I don't care that much about country of origin except that I don't buy Chinese guitars for political reasons.

Other imports are fine imo
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I have pretty much exactly the same feeling, but there are a few violin builders I have on my Christmas wishlist.
 
I have zero issues buying from China if they make what I want at a reasonable price.

Let's not forget who helped create, train and fund manufacturing in China. It didn't happen overnight, it took decades.

When you help create something then complain about what you created, there's a word for that.
 
rsm said:
I have zero issues buying from China if they make what I want at a reasonable price.

Let's not forget who helped create, train and fund manufacturing in China. It didn't happen overnight, it took decades.

When you help create something then complain about what you created, there's a word for that.
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You aren't wrong it's our own fault, and it's almost impossible not to buy from China.
Even if something was made somewhere else it probably has Chinese parts.
I'm just not big on sending money (indirectly or not) to the CCP if I can avoid it.
It's rarely about a quality issue for me.
 
Eastman makes some very nice guitars in China.

They don't retain value terribly well though, which is great if you're buying used.

I work in US manufacturing. Pretty much everything 'built' here is full of Chinese parts. The company I work for is German, and in the past 15 years we've phased out pretty much all of our European suppliers.
 
Quality and markets are 2 different stories. Us Americans are willing to pay more for better quality, less wealthy countries buy what they can afford.

As far as best craftsman, hands down Japan.
 
DanTravis62 said:
I mean *I* didn't personally approve NAFTA 🤣
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I think he meant in the totality of Americans buying Chinese products for the last 40 years to keep consumer costs low.
NAFTA was just between North American countries, but I totally get your point.
I also was like 10 when NAFTA came out and not even born when Chinese trade started so I didn't approve it either. :ROFLMAO:
Probably good with at least the idea of NAFTA, imo.
 
IIRC NAFTA was intended to "compete" with the EU but in reality it was a way to get cheaper raw materials (from Canada) and labor (Mexico) as an alternative to China...since the "plan" to use capitalism to undermine the CCP failed spectacularly so far...the CCP maintained political control while benefiting from capitalism economic models, actually strengthening the CCP grip on Chinese political power, and now international economic influence (Belt & Road)

It's not the first time our ruling parasites were wrong, and the results made things worse for Americans; won't be the last. (see Ukraine, Syria, Iraq,...)
 
Devin said:
Doesn't matter to me; good shit is good shit


Unless we're talking about breastmilk; only the finest Cambodian will do
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I wish that I knew that when my son was so hard to wean.
He had a blend of Scandinavian, Japanese, and Cherokee :ROFLMAO:
 
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