“Tone is in the fingers” my ass. (RANT)

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CrystalSky said:
0 percent bothered
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It bothers many, not saying it bothers you. After about 100 amps I realized the gear itself is almost irrelevant—watching videos of myself I can’t tell whether I’m playing a Marshall, a Fuchs, a Mesa or a Fractal. And no one else can either.

The best tone altering decision I’ve made over the last 20yrs is kicking nickel plated steel strings to the curb and going all nickel.
 
braintheory said:
Another example is Paul Gilbert. Many guys love his playing, but I’ve only heard others say not good things about his tone. I guess his fingers are no good too lol
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I recall he was in the band Mr Big back in the 80s but I haven’t heard anything from him in 35yrs, does he still play guitar?
 
tallcoolone said:
Shows how much I know haha. I switched to classical piano back in the 90s, just a better way to enjoy the compositions
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Yeah that was around the time where the level of players and technique on the instrument started to improve a lot. Classical guitar construction/design also started going through some big changes around the late ‘80’s onward. It’s very different now from the times of Segovia or Parkening

I agree, piano and other classical instruments have so much better compositions. That’s the unfortunate thing about classical guitar. It’s very hard to compose pieces for it, so most of the best music we play is really just piano and harpsichord transcriptions from Bach, Scarlatti, Rameau, Chopin, Albeniz or Debussy. Stravinsky was potentially going to compose for it, but Segovia ruined that, which really sucks. Bream tried to revive that, but Stravinsky wasn’t interested. It’s a shame because it’s an amazing instrument, but we don’t yet have enough great pieces in our repertoire
 
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tallcoolone said:
I recall he was in the band Mr Big back in the 80s but I haven’t heard anything from him in 35yrs, does he still play guitar?
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No idea haha. He never did much for me honestly. The only songs that I felt had good musicality were Scarified and Technical difficulties, but they were a bit predictable imo. I think it was more his chops that made guys like him, but there are tons of players even better there too imho
 
tallcoolone said:
It bothers many, not saying it bothers you. After about 100 amps I realized the gear itself is almost irrelevant—watching videos of myself I can’t tell whether I’m playing a Marshall, a Fuchs, a Mesa or a Fractal. And no one else can either.

The best tone altering decision I’ve made over the last 20yrs is kicking nickel plated steel strings to the curb and going all nickel.
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Man, I wish we could experiment together!

Shit if I could become sweetwaters content maker, I would dig balls deep in this and make video series.
 
braintheory said:
No idea haha. He never did much for me honestly. The only songs that I felt had good musicality were Scarified and Technical difficulties, but they were a bit predictable imo. I think it was more his chops that made guys like him, but there are tons of players even better there too imho
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CrystalSky said:
So basically it should be indistinguishable whether one plays different amps or what?

If there is no severe underqualification, I suppose one can reach sound of some legendary players at least in a single chord
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If you grew up in the day when players had some form of non master volume amp a guitar and a cable, tone absolutely is in the hands.
Get a 100 watt nmv Marshall for intance put it on ten hooked up to 2 cabs and see what happens if you never have. Then have a buddy who grew up on these do it…
 
To the suggestion about playing a power chord through a guitar to settle this matter, a question: is tone to you just about that one instant where you play a sound, or is it a more complex thing determined by a player’s other habits during a lengthier performance?
 
nightlight said:
To the suggestion about playing a power chord through a guitar to settle this matter, a question: is tone to you just about that one instant where you play a sound, or is it a more complex thing determined by a player’s other habits during a lengthier performance?
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Tone is the sound. Those other habits are their playing, which I judge separately. Yes the attack, technique and other nuances shape the tone, but to a much smaller extent than the gear. Two very different players sound very different because their playing is very different, but that doesn’t mean their tone itself couldn’t be damn near identical, but like I said most guy’s seem to just listen to an overall package and not distinguish between tone and playing

It’s kinda like if me and another guy wore the same shirt it may look completely different on the 2 of us, but it’s still the same shirt if that’s what is being judged, it just translates differently
 
Greazygeo said:
If you grew up in the day when players had some form of non master volume amp a guitar and a cable, tone absolutely is in the hands.
Get a 100 watt nmv Marshall for intance put it on ten hooked up to 2 cabs and see what happens if you never have. Then have a buddy who grew up on these do it…
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If I only could. There are not much opportunities in my country.

Attack power matters, that I know well.
 
braintheory said:
Tone is the sound. Those other habits are their playing, which I judge separately. Yes the attack, technique and other nuances shape the tone, but to a much smaller extent than the gear. Two very different players sound very different because their playing is very different, but that doesn’t mean their tone itself couldn’t be damn near identical, but like I said most guy’s seem to just listen to an overall package and not distinguish between tone and playing

It’s kinda like if me and another guy wore the same shirt it may look completely different on the 2 of us, but it’s still the same shirt if that’s what is being judged, it just translates differently
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There’s an interesting quote from Nuno Bettencourt about the time he tried EVH’s rig, and he said of the experience: “I sounded like me.”

In the case of a much less famous player, I feel the same way when I dial in a rig on different amps sometime as well. I just sound like myself. And this is despite dialling it in completely different ways or even copying settings from others.

Also, if we look at technology, would you want to tone match based on an isolated recording of a famous guitarist’s playing on an album or just tone match based on him hitting a power chord or three on his recording or live rig (great business idea here)?
 
tallcoolone said:
It bothers many, not saying it bothers you. After about 100 amps I realized the gear itself is almost irrelevant—watching videos of myself I can’t tell whether I’m playing a Marshall, a Fuchs, a Mesa or a Fractal. And no one else can either.

The best tone altering decision I’ve made over the last 20yrs is kicking nickel plated steel strings to the curb and going all nickel.
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100% this.

Bigger difference in amps is going from AB grid to cathode bias, or to low voltage/under bias like EVH. Class A is another step further.
 
nightlight said:
There’s an interesting quote from Nuno Bettencourt about the time he tried EVH’s rig, and he said of the experience: “I sounded like me.”

In the case of a much less famous player, I feel the same way when I dial in a rig on different amps sometime as well. I just sound like myself. And this is despite dialling it in completely different ways or even copying settings from others.

Also, if we look at technology, would you want to tone match based on an isolated recording of a famous guitarist’s playing on an album or just tone match based on him hitting a power chord or three on his recording or live rig (great business idea here)?
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Their playing sounds like them no matter what they play through, not the tone itself. We have to distinguish the 2. It’s a simple concept. Think about Metallica. Their playing still was what it was, but their tone on the first 2 albums using Marshall’s was radically different than the later albums when they switched to Mark IIC+‘s and other boogie amps. Did they still sound like Metallica? Playing-wise yes. Soundwise (aka tone)? No, very different, almost polar opposite even imo. And why was that? From the gear differences

I think it’s just that some guys listen more for tone and others listen more to playing. I prefer to focus one of the 2 on one listen through and have other times where I focus more on the other

I do though agree with the idea that if one doesn’t play well very few people are gonna bothering even considering the tone they have, so practice is what’s needed to improve the playing, but once that is sufficient they can find their sound from the right gear for them. There’s lots of great players with awful tone and lots of bad players with amazing tone (but maybe I’m one of the few that actually notice those guys lol). I’ve heard plenty examples of both and they shouldn’t be grouped together as one thing. It’s a stupid idea that as far as I’m aware is just in the electric guitar world
 
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Kapo_Polenton said:
but when you say, I want to have YJM's tone, you also need to have his nuances. Same with any of the greats. So it is the sum of all parts and that's why the FINGERS on any gear sound like the guy playing through Chain XYZ. But rando playing chain XYZ may not be able to play like Insert_legend here. So it really is a silly debate overall.
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To me YJM’s tone is simple: strat and the right Marshall.

Now, if you want to play like him, that’s something else entirely. To do that you gotta cop his style, technique, chops etc.
 
I think it's some from column A, and B. Those that think the player doesn't affect the tone should check this out. Joe Satriani playing a cheap Strat copy, still sounds like Joe to me.
 
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heavision said:
To me YJM’s tone is simple: strat and the right Marshall.

Now, if you want to play like him, that’s something else entirely. To do that you gotta cop his style, technique, chops etc.
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Before YJM I didn't realize how good strats can be for a high gain lead tone and now I like them for that in the neck position even better than most humbuckers (and I still think his music itself is trash lol despite the great tone and great playing because I distinguish)

I think though the other key ingredient to his sound is a good overdrive pedal to boost it and then it's all there: a strat with '50's style strat pickups, good overdrive pedal, Marshall and that captures at least the special part of it imo. Yes, you won’t play like him from that, but you will have his tone, so one can say you can sound like his “guitar voice” aka tone, but won’t sound playing-wise like him. The fact that we even have to spell this is out is kinda sad
 
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