20th Anniversary Shiva - LOOP question.

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richedie

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I have been a little dissapointed with the 20th Shiva's loop. I find it too hot unless you are using rack gear.

I find the design of my VHT ST's loop to be far superior. One aspect I really enjoy of the VHT's is the ability to have complete control over the output of the loop since it has a level knob on the back panel.
I knw you can essentially control the loop level using the Channel volumes on the Shiva but I don't find that helps because I think the Shiva sounds much, much better with the Ch. Volumes turned way up. Only then can I get the Shiva into the sweet spot as I can with the VHT. In that case, the loop becomes very hot and tough on pedals and I love pedals. Big thing I am finding is that now I need pedals with volume/level controls to work well in the Shiva's loop. For example, with my Carbon Copy delay I have the level almost off to be able to work in the Shiva's loop.

Now my quest is to find a good chorus/flanger with level control to wotk with the Shiva, must be analog too. I use an old Boss BF-2 or HF-2, both heavily modded, but neither have level controls. Nice thing about these pedals is they are great flangers that can easily get a good chorus sound. The trick now is finding a good flanger that can cover chorus sounds or a good chorus/flanger, either with level.
 
Hey man, i have the same issue with my XTC 20th. Check this out. I was thinking maybe this is what we need to drop the send level down and then it brings it back up again on the return. best part is no mods to the amp. Anyone have experience with this? Only $109 bucks...http://shop.toursupply.com/signal-adapter.html
 
Really :confused: I have a TC Nova Reverb in both my Uber and 20th Xtc with out any problem. Huh
 
Problem is you can make it work by turning down the channel outputs but then you don't get as much volume as you need out of the amp just using the return volume level-you run out of gain on the return. OK for bedroom, not OK for gigs with a loud drummer where you really need some volume.
 
It is problematic for me. Trick for me is to use effects witgh a level/mix/volume control.
 
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26437
This gave me some good insight to what is going on with the loop of my Shiva. I have a bunch of analog stuff that If I could run in the loop I would have the perfect amp for what I do. I think on page 2 they discuss the return level needing to be jumped up. I tried using a Demeter Trem with a built in line boost and it worked pretty good but noisy. Radial had a new mixer ala Mini Mix for about $120.00 that is on deck.
 
I'm going to bump this because right off the bat I'm having issues with my Shiva 20th loop. I tried a Strymon Elcapistan in the loop and it completely takes all the high end off the tone and yes, it's really loud. This is using the serial loop, or the input labeled as pedal send on the amp. I can deal with a volume bump but the tone gets destroyed really. I tried the rack input send on the amp and it seems to be working better, just have to play around with levels. But using the rack input, i can hear some phase issues with the repeated notes.

Why can't everyone just copy VHT's loop? :doh:
 
I have both of my strymons (Blue sky, Brigadier) in the loop on my XTC and 20th XTC, but I need to keep the channel volumes down to about 9-10 oclock, I do have enough on the return to boost it back up a lot so it works ok, my understanding was the strymon pedals could take a line level signal, only reason I have to run mine down so low is for the Retrosonic chorus I use which is designed for low level only and it makes a bad low end thumping noise if the channel vols are set too high. I agree though, why can't they just put a send volume or a +4 -10db switch on any amp these days?
 
Bogners are great amps but their effects loops suck balls.
 
Agreed, just don't understand as it's so easy to do to make a good loop and make it interface with all kinds of outboard gear. Kind of like dual master volumes as well which although I love the tone of my Bogners I wish they had. Having to add another pedal to boost for my solos sucks as well, especially for an amp cost $4k it's BS, easy as hell to add. They need to listen to their customers. I own 3 Bogners and all three have the same design flaws or to put it nicer omissions in my opinion although they all have fantastic tone so I deal with it.
 
RG955TT":kjrvk8ag said:
Agreed, just don't understand as it's so easy to do to make a good loop and make it interface with all kinds of outboard gear. Kind of like dual master volumes as well which although I love the tone of my Bogners I wish they had. Having to add another pedal to boost for my solos sucks as well, especially for an amp cost $4k it's BS, easy as hell to add. They need to listen to their customers. I own 3 Bogners and all three have the same design flaws or to put it nicer omissions in my opinion although they all have fantastic tone so I deal with it.
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I have two now and had three. Same issues. Reinhold is stubborn
 
I'm just using the rack send and it works fine with the Strymon El Cap. It's the pedal send that totally sucks tone and adds volume.
 
Se7en, if you are asking me I have it about 9:30 to 10 o/clock to keep the input to the FX low enough to not overdrive them. Dwoovre, do you notice any tone sucking and how does it work with your pedals? I have looked at that for a solution before just didn't pull the trigger yet.
 
Everything in the signal path makes some difference.

Plugging a straight 6" from the fx send to the return changes the sound/volume of my Shiva quite a bit, so if I want to use the loop at all, I have to deal with the fact that it is going to sound a little different. It is just the way it is. I don't have any experience specifically with the 20th Anny. but it sounds like it has similar issues to my Shiva's loop.

The Line Level Shifter makes is sound a bit different, but my perception is that it is mostly a volume thing. It doesn't seem to attenuate any specific frequency or change the feel drastically. It has been a while since I did any specific A/B testing, but I have played well over a hundred shows with that setup, so it is obviously working well for me.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but it is probably worth a try for you. Buy one from a retailer with a good return policy, and it will cost you essentially nothing but time to give it a try. Just don't go into it expecting total 100% transparency.
 
Cool, thanks. How do you have it hooked up? Can you send from amp into +4 then out of -10 to fx, then just into the return on the amp or can you then use the other channel to go return from fx into -10 then out of +4 into the amp return? That way it would keep the volume the same just dropping it to the fx, then boosting it again to unity gain into the amps return?
 
Your second method:

FX_Send => +4_to_-10 => Loop_FX => -10_to_+4 => FX_Return
 
That's what I thought. Does it give you unity gain when you bypass the loop? Not sure you have a footswitch to do that on a Shiva though...thanks for answering my questions
 
The loop is not switchable on my amp.

A straight cable in the FX loop doesn't result in unity gain, so there is no way to isolate the effect of the line level shifter.
 
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