5150III 50w...Made in Vietnam?!

[Lution]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

The current ones are, I expect more of the same.

Wow, man. Hey, thanks for setting me straight on this. I will cancel my order tonight.

 

[nevusofota]

the design has not changed, fender has choices over the parts that they use to assemble them - even the solder. only the labor involved is different. only time will tell this - same thing happened with the 5150 III 100W - there were many bugs in the first runs that had to be fixed before they got settled, its not a far fetched assumption it could happen again in the early stages of production here with the included MIDI and so forth.

This may be why it took nearly a year to get from being shown at winter NAMM to being finally available (hopefully starting next month). . . to take care of the bugs, make sure quality is up to snuff, and avoid the same thing that happened with the first batches of the 100watter back in '07.

Here is a quote from a 5150III Thread on TGP:

"I got to sit and chat with the dude who was playing guitar in that Tone King video.
He told me that EVH used the 50 watter for about 75% of the new recording, when they re-recorded it. He said it sounded pretty much the same as the big one. He also said that the shared eq on the dirt channels was Ed's preference. He also said Ed is the sweetest guy to a fault. I had a great time chatting with him. He seemed quite genuine to me.

I just remembered too that he said the mini EVHs are made overseas, that is how they were able to get the cost down. And the delay on them getting out has to do with a mistaken transformer issue. Fender wanted to use their own, the overseas company thought Fender wanted that company to build new ones. So, when the first batch came in, they weren't up to spec, a bit lighter and not right in the tone category. A misunderstanding due to communication issues."

Great info, thanks for posting.

I always hear of "issues" with early models. I have yet to learn specifically what was wrong. I talked to a few people that had problems with the early editions of the 100watter (and read about many more on forums) and all of them could be boiled down to an issue with either the cheap 7-pin footswitch cable (made the amp do all kinds of crazy things) or preamp tubes. I have one of the first 400 made and I also had a problem with the cable and a preamp tube. I have been running a midi switching system for the past 2 years and haven't had any problems since (knock on wood).

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

They come with a free Thai Stick and a balloon of smack. Buy the cab too, and you get boom boom long time!


So, get out there and buy some!

 

[Lution]

the design has not changed, fender has choices over the parts that they use to assemble them - even the solder. only the labor involved is different. only time will tell this - same thing happened with the 5150 III 100W - there were many bugs in the first runs that had to be fixed before they got settled, its not a far fetched assumption it could happen again in the early stages of production here with the included MIDI and so forth.

This may be why it took nearly a year to get from being shown at winter NAMM to being finally available (hopefully starting next month). . . to take care of the bugs, make sure quality is up to snuff, and avoid the same thing that happened with the first batches of the 100watter back in '07.

Here is a quote from a 5150III Thread on TGP:

"I got to sit and chat with the dude who was playing guitar in that Tone King video.
He told me that EVH used the 50 watter for about 75% of the new recording, when they re-recorded it. He said it sounded pretty much the same as the big one. He also said that the shared eq on the dirt channels was Ed's preference. He also said Ed is the sweetest guy to a fault. I had a great time chatting with him. He seemed quite genuine to me.

I just remembered too that he said the mini EVHs are made overseas, that is how they were able to get the cost down. And the delay on them getting out has to do with a mistaken transformer issue. Fender wanted to use their own, the overseas company thought Fender wanted that company to build new ones. So, when the first batch came in, they weren't up to spec, a bit lighter and not right in the tone category. A misunderstanding due to communication issues."

Great info, thanks for posting.

I always hear of "issues" with early models. I have yet to learn specifically what was wrong. I talked to a few people that had problems with the early editions of the 100watter (and read about many more on forums) and all of them could be boiled down to an issue with either the cheap 7-pin footswitch cable (made the amp do all kinds of crazy things) or preamp tubes. I have one of the first 400 made and I also had a problem with the cable and a preamp tube. I have been running a midi switching system for the past 2 years and haven't had any problems since (knock on wood).

Those are the same exact issues I also heard about with the first batch of 100watters: Footswitch cable and Preamp tubes(Bad EH tubes, iirc). They took care of both issues then and now the Mini will have a 1/4 cable for the footswitch and I'm sure will ship with JJ tubes all around like its big brother currently does.

We'll see how well it goes after they arrive and get into players' hands.

 

[CaseyCor]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

 

[Lution]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

I was being sarcastic. I could give 2 shits where it is made as long as it sounds good and holds up to regular gigs.

I can't speak for the other guy. To me, it sounds like he's trying to justify his $3,500 guitar, his $5,000 amp, and his $250 instrument cable by bashing the obviously lesser-than-his-gear gear.

 

[CaseyCor]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

I was being sarcastic. I could give 2 shits where it is made as long as it sounds good and holds up to regular gigs.

I can't speak for the other guy. To me, it sounds like he's trying to justify his $3,500 guitar, his $5,000 amp, and his $250 instrument cable by bashing the obviously lesser-than-his-gear gear.

Ah, fair enough

 

[steve_k]

It all comes down to profit margin for the company and personal choice for the consumer. Cheaper does not necessarily mean poorer quality. Whether the PC board is tooled, cut, stamped, loaded or stuffed in the USA vs. Vietnam, it will be built to specs and quality tested by some company supervisor. But, one needs to know who ordered the specs. Whether turning out sneakers in a sweat shop that cost 83 cents to make and sell for $250 or an amp that costs $250 to build and sells for $1250 - one must question whether the company doing the components and assembly was allowed to design, purchase and specify the components based on a performance specification or whether specific components were required to be used. When companies send their manufacturing overseas, it is generally the latter that is opted for and this is where quality takes a huge dump. So, it is up to the consumer if he wants to take the risk or not. Sweatshop labor is a huge failure of corporations from a moral obligation and they will distance themselves far from it - that's how they widen the profit margin and get you such a good bargain. At the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice and your affordability. In general, it is my personal preference to help an American worker than not. And, in general it is my choice to pay up as quality, and tracking resources is more easily done, if so desired. At the end of the day, you are paying for that, with workman's comp, insurance, wages, etc on top of the cost of products, but I do know where it is going. When an American company chooses to send its manufacturing to SE Asia, it is to target a price point and build the product so that the final cost is met and a profit margin can be met and if it comes at a cost of a little quality, it is a calculated risk they take with a failure ratio being built into the cost. If components are identical as specified, then its labor that drives the cost downward. China, Vietnam and Thailand are famous for its Silicon Sweatshops. I choose not to contribute to that.

It's too bad that so many turned the OP's question into a shit-fest about race and gear-mongering.

Steve
Fair-Trade

 

[steve_k]

Adding to my previous post....I am not saying I wouldn't buy an amp because it is made in Vietnam or China. But, I would be skeptical at the very least of the parts that went into it. If the components were hand selected and specified to the assembly company, that is one thing. It is an entirely different animal though if a design is given to a company and that company selects or manufactures "equivalent" components to supply a turnkey cost and product.

Then again, it really depends on what you are after and your purpose.

 

[CaseyCor]

Adding to my previous post....I am not saying I wouldn't buy an amp because it is made in Vietnam or China. But, I would be skeptical at the very least of the parts that went into it. If the components were hand selected and specified to the assembly company, that is one thing. It is an entirely different animal though if a design is given to a company and that company selects or manufactures "equivalent" components to supply a turnkey cost and product.

Then again, it really depends on what you are after and your purpose.

Seems like the best way to think about the issue. I'd like to see someone tear one of these apart and document the specific components for this very reason

 

[TTripp]

There's nothing wrong with buying an amp made in Vietnam. Of course, they're was nothing wrong with buying drywall made in China either.

 

[nevusofota]

Adding to my previous post....I am not saying I wouldn't buy an amp because it is made in Vietnam or China. But, I would be skeptical at the very least of the parts that went into it. If the components were hand selected and specified to the assembly company, that is one thing. It is an entirely different animal though if a design is given to a company and that company selects or manufactures "equivalent" components to supply a turnkey cost and product.

Then again, it really depends on what you are after and your purpose.

This is the type of discussion I was going for. Thanks for this post.

It sounds like this is what may of happened with the transformers. As a previous poster referred to a TGP discussion, the transformers that were put into the very early EVH 50watters were not up to spec and this may have contributed to the delay in the release of the amp. I hope other parts weren't compromised and overlooked.

 

[steve_k]

Adding to my previous post....I am not saying I wouldn't buy an amp because it is made in Vietnam or China. But, I would be skeptical at the very least of the parts that went into it. If the components were hand selected and specified to the assembly company, that is one thing. It is an entirely different animal though if a design is given to a company and that company selects or manufactures "equivalent" components to supply a turnkey cost and product.

Then again, it really depends on what you are after and your purpose.

This is the type of discussion I was going for. Thanks for this post.

It sounds like this is what may of happened with the transformers. As a previous poster referred to a TGP discussion, the transformers that were put into the very early EVH 50watters were not up to spec and this may have contributed to the delay in the release of the amp. I hope other parts weren't compromised and overlooked.

That could very well be the case, in this instance. With transformers being the costlier component in the amp, this could be where they chose to cut costs to make a target price.

Steve

 

[oldmanmetal]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

I was being sarcastic. I could give 2 shits where it is made as long as it sounds good and holds up to regular gigs.

I can't speak for the other guy. To me, it sounds like he's trying to justify his $3,500 guitar, his $5,000 amp, and his $250 instrument cable by bashing the obviously lesser-than-his-gear gear.

Ah, fair enough

I own high dollar amps, and cheap amps made overseas. I play what works, lasts, and fits the project. My main amp lately is an Ampeg VH140C, but whatever. The 5150 III was very disappointing with all the hype. The high price for being made in Mexico, and constant problems with quality. I know several bands left in the lurch on tour with these POS amps. Constant breakdowns, and trouble getting warranties honred on the road. I am sure the quality will improve with Vietnam built quality. Personal preference for sure, saying these sound better than a SLO. To me that is unimaginable. Perhaps for the bedroom player at low volumes these fit the bill. Everyone I know unloaded them after lots of headaches. POS. Do. Not. Want.

 

[glpg80]

Adding to my previous post....I am not saying I wouldn't buy an amp because it is made in Vietnam or China. But, I would be skeptical at the very least of the parts that went into it. If the components were hand selected and specified to the assembly company, that is one thing. It is an entirely different animal though if a design is given to a company and that company selects or manufactures "equivalent" components to supply a turnkey cost and product.

Then again, it really depends on what you are after and your purpose.

This is the type of discussion I was going for. Thanks for this post.

It sounds like this is what may of happened with the transformers. As a previous poster referred to a TGP discussion, the transformers that were put into the very early EVH 50watters were not up to spec and this may have contributed to the delay in the release of the amp. I hope other parts weren't compromised and overlooked.

That could very well be the case, in this instance. With transformers being the costlier component in the amp, this could be where they chose to cut costs to make a target price.

Steve

just to be clear the labor is what is cheap here, not the components. resistors still have a value, caps are still spec'ed to fenders specifications and dealer choices or similar tolerances as given by the original engineer's, and the manufacturing plants have the same access to component manufacturers as the labor in USA or UK. the reason for the delay was because the amplifiers were spec'd for no iron whatsoever, this was because fender wanted to use their own where it would indeed be cheaper to wire and build them than to purchase outsourced iron. The other reason is due to quality - fender's been in this game for a while - they have a few notes down on trafo manufacturing - alot more than X Vietnam company, which was the cause for the delay - ending the POS trafo's being supplied in the first batches by X overseas company.

not saying fender's are better or worse, just saying they are keeping an eye on the details that matter most to the component level, not to the unit level. the other benefit in designing the transformers in house is the ability to have a controlled test atmosphere for quality control in house - assuring quality is within spec.

what is in question here is the actual build quality overseas - cold soldering/soldering techniques, temperature, shipping/handling damages, mislabeled serial numbers, unknown substituted parts, parts installed incorrectly/backwards, etc. those are the deal breaker questions here when dealing with outsourced labor.

 

[nevusofota]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

I was being sarcastic. I could give 2 shits where it is made as long as it sounds good and holds up to regular gigs.

I can't speak for the other guy. To me, it sounds like he's trying to justify his $3,500 guitar, his $5,000 amp, and his $250 instrument cable by bashing the obviously lesser-than-his-gear gear.

Ah, fair enough

I own high dollar amps, and cheap amps made overseas. I play what works, lasts, and fits the project. My main amp lately is an Ampeg VH140C, but whatever. The 5150 III was very disappointing with all the hype. The high price for being made in Mexico, and constant problems with quality. I know several bands left in the lurch on tour with these POS amps. Constant breakdowns, and trouble getting warranties honred on the road. I am sure the quality will improve with Vietnam built quality. Personal preference for sure, saying these sound better than a SLO. To me that is unimaginable. Perhaps for the bedroom player at low volumes these fit the bill. Everyone I know unloaded them after lots of headaches. POS. Do. Not. Want.

Old Man Metal, with all due respect, it's a scientific fact that your opinion on amps shouldn't be valued. Here are 4 reasons why :

Hearing loss is the third most common chronic condition
reported by elderly people [1]. The estimated prevalence
of significant hearing impairment among people
over the age of 65 is approximately 40 to 45 percent and
among people over the age of 70 exceeds 83 percent [2].
Despite the widespread occurrence of significant hearing
loss in the elderly population, only about 20 percent of
elderly individuals with significant hearing impairment
obtain hearing aids [3]. Moreover, about 30 percent of
hearing aid owners are dissatisfied with their instruments
[4], and approximately 16 percent of hearing aid owners
report never using their hearing aids

 

[oldmanmetal]

Do. Not. Want. P.O.S.

Yeah, dude. They're gonna be huge piles of shit.

Are you both basing this purely on the fact that it's made in Vietnam? Or is there more to the story than I understand? Please fill me in!

I was being sarcastic. I could give 2 shits where it is made as long as it sounds good and holds up to regular gigs.

I can't speak for the other guy. To me, it sounds like he's trying to justify his $3,500 guitar, his $5,000 amp, and his $250 instrument cable by bashing the obviously lesser-than-his-gear gear.

Ah, fair enough

I own high dollar amps, and cheap amps made overseas. I play what works, lasts, and fits the project. My main amp lately is an Ampeg VH140C, but whatever. The 5150 III was very disappointing with all the hype. The high price for being made in Mexico, and constant problems with quality. I know several bands left in the lurch on tour with these POS amps. Constant breakdowns, and trouble getting warranties honred on the road. I am sure the quality will improve with Vietnam built quality. Personal preference for sure, saying these sound better than a SLO. To me that is unimaginable. Perhaps for the bedroom player at low volumes these fit the bill. Everyone I know unloaded them after lots of headaches. POS. Do. Not. Want.

Old Man Metal, with all due respect, it's a scientific fact that your opinion on amps shouldn't be valued. Here are 4 reasons why :

Hearing loss is the third most common chronic condition
reported by elderly people [1]. The estimated prevalence
of significant hearing impairment among people
over the age of 65 is approximately 40 to 45 percent and
among people over the age of 70 exceeds 83 percent [2].
Despite the widespread occurrence of significant hearing
loss in the elderly population, only about 20 percent of
elderly individuals with significant hearing impairment
obtain hearing aids [3]. Moreover, about 30 percent of
hearing aid owners are dissatisfied with their instruments
[4], and approximately 16 percent of hearing aid owners
report never using their hearing aids

Clearly why they have been plagued with problems, and many bands refuse to use them. It affects their hearing aids from all the quality Mexican craftsmanship. Makes perfect sense now.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

There's nothing wrong with buying an amp made in Vietnam. Of course, they're was nothing wrong with buying drywall made in China either.

http://www.newsinferno.com/defective-pr ... -reaching/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993444645927999.html

 

[warren]

There's nothing wrong with buying an amp made in Vietnam. Of course, they're was nothing wrong with buying drywall made in China either.

http://www.newsinferno.com/defective-pr ... -reaching/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993444645927999.html

His post was funny but the reality is that there are over a billion people in china. That country alone makes up over 20% of the entire world's population. So of course you're going to find this kind of thing happening. Law of averages. We could dig up a whole metric shit ton of stories relating to bad US distributors as well. Whether it's incompetence, laziness, greed, or apathy (or whatever else), fact is these qualities aren't limited to any specific region. Bad apples everywhere.

 

[Lution]

There's nothing wrong with buying an amp made in Vietnam. Of course, they're was nothing wrong with buying drywall made in China either.

http://www.newsinferno.com/defective-pr ... -reaching/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993444645927999.html

His post was funny but the reality is that there are over a billion people in china. That country alone makes up over 20% of the entire world's population. So of course you're going to find this kind of thing happening. Law of averages. We could dig up a whole metric shit ton of stories relating to bad US distributors as well. Whether it's incompetence, laziness, greed, or apathy (or whatever else), fact is these qualities aren't limited to any specific region. Bad apples everywhere.

exactly.