A Wall of Sound with a Modeler?

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BeZo

BeZo

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Rather than debating whether or not a modeler can cop the tone and feel of an amp, let's just say they can. The main problem with replacing your amp is the residual volume a tube amp creates alongside of the tone desired. Stage volume isn't just for monitoring, those speakers are for the audience too. I always say that my 8x10 cab is the "Boom for the room", and when you play smaller clubs, you need your instrument to produce sound. I've seen big tours where bands run modelers and have a silent stage, and it sucks. It's like a sonic void front and center where the mosh pit usually forms. Why deprive your most passionate fans of the sound they came to hear?

To get around this, I forbade my guitarist from going ampless when he made the switch to the Helix. He has to make sound on stage. He's using a Mesa 50/50 into a Mesa 4x12 for stage volume. We're debating switching to FRFR cabs, but it doesn't seem like there is much out there to compete with 4x12s. Most of the appeal is to carry less gear to a gig, sacrificing what I consider to be the best part of a live show: Volume.

What FRFR cabs are out there to get loud? He's gotta compete with a loud drummer and an SVT through a fridge.
 
I mix the best of both worlds with my AXE 3. I use my Boss WAZA to power 2 real 412 cabinets and then I run my powered Friedman FRFR wedges running IR responses at the same time. Brings raw and polished together and fills in all the sonic gaps quiet nicely. Having the ability to add up to 4 IR responses at once allows for endless possibilities.

I never gelled with straight up FRFR cabinets by themselves but when blended with real 412 cabinets, the FRFR's work for me in this situation.
 
I used to want stage volume as quiet as possible when playing
 
I run my Fractal AXE III in to a Fryette LX II and out through a pair of 1x12 or a pair of 2x12
 
BeZo said:
Rather than debating whether or not a modeler can cop the tone and feel of an amp, let's just say they can. The main problem with replacing your amp is the residual volume a tube amp creates alongside of the tone desired. Stage volume isn't just for monitoring, those speakers are for the audience too. I always say that my 8x10 cab is the "Boom for the room", and when you play smaller clubs, you need your instrument to produce sound. I've seen big tours where bands run modelers and have a silent stage, and it sucks. It's like a sonic void front and center where the mosh pit usually forms. Why deprive your most passionate fans of the sound they came to hear?

To get around this, I forbade my guitarist from going ampless when he made the switch to the Helix. He has to make sound on stage. He's using a Mesa 50/50 into a Mesa 4x12 for stage volume. We're debating switching to FRFR cabs, but it doesn't seem like there is much out there to compete with 4x12s. Most of the appeal is to carry less gear to a gig, sacrificing what I consider to be the best part of a live show: Volume.

What FRFR cabs are out there to get loud? He's gotta compete with a loud drummer and an SVT through a fridge.
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I went kinda big when Tom King perfected his Atomic (active) CLR FRFR Wedges a few years ago. I picked up 4 units, only ended up using 2 as they're fkn loud - believe it or not, I've held on to the 4 of 'em as "personally" - I think they're still to this day one of the best, most compact but atrociously potent and crystal clear, perfectly representative FRFR systems out there. I know he moved over to Neo magnets to lower the weight a bit, but I actually dig the girth of these units as they are.

So, guess in short - my vote whilst perhaps "old school" being that this shit changes every couple of months, if you can find a couple minty Atomic Active CLR Wedges, they'll definitely flap yer pants - at 500W (I think? might be 600W) powered - and built like tanks - they pump and pump *steady*

YMMV, just my 2 cents.
Peace
 
I read a lot, watched a lot of videos, asked for lot's of advice, and decided the Friedman ASM was probably the closest thing to a real cabinet. Bought one, put an FM3 through it against an FM3 through a tube power amp section on a Mesa Traditional 4x12........sold the Friedman a few days later. It simply wasn't close to my ears for what I like to hear in the room. I like modelers, but I still need a real cabinet and a good tube power amp. It simply crushed the FRFR....to my ears at least.
 
I look at it like pie. A real amp rig produces a whole pie, but a mic only takes a slice of pie. Now, modelers can reproduce a slice of pie without the whole pie. If you want to practice, you can take a slice of pie for yourself. For live, you can produce the slice of pie for the sound engineer. However, if you are playing for a bunch of people, a whole pie will go a lot farther than making everyone share a slice.

Both sound great in context. Is there a way for a modeler to truly reproduce the full pie? Will a collection of pie slices ever make a full pie?
 
You can't 'move air' for a wall of sound without the right tools to do it...and that means a tube or high wattage SS power amp and the most important part .....SPEAKER MASS. Can't avoid these facts unfortunately. More speakers=more air moved.
 
There are no FRFR options that can realistically sound like a cabinet in the room. It’s not physically possible.
 
Been sayin this for years... modelers only work great in certain situations... if you are playing less than a 500 person room ( maybe even bigger), you need stage volume. Unless you have a pro FOH rig that puts up monitors on the stage that are part of the FOH that blast sound from
The ground/stage level as well as the line array, they are terrible. Just like what you said, if you are close to the stage, all you hear are drums, and nothing else: a lot of FOH’s don’t factor this in.

in Nashville, if I was playing in front of 10k people outside? The modeler ruled, nothing could touch my tone through a system like that, and yes I would use 2x12 on stage too. But bar gigs? Everyone that uses a real amp in those situations smokes a true modeler type rig: that’s a sure fire way to make your band sound small in a room like that.
 
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