Amp Build: Ceriatone Kraken 50

  • Thread starter Thread starter FourT6and2
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scottosan":1ym9rj6n said:
FourT6and2":1ym9rj6n said:
scottosan":1ym9rj6n said:
The C45 mod on the Friedman used 560k/680pf

I assume this is for the treble peaker circuit and not the tone stack?
right its switheable with 68k voltage divider. (560k/680pf)/220k divider vs 68k/68k divider. More gain and low mids. Realistically I'm about 2 more days out on my build. My head is spinning and the IPA's aren't helping my productivity :lol: :LOL:

That looks badass! I'm looking forward to hearing clips :)
 
Damn, the cleans sound real good. Nice and lively. It may be just the previous video, but I like the sound of the cleans more than the overdrive.
 
Ran those sims on the tone stack calculator for ya!
The cap doesn't look like that big a difference. The slope resistor is another story......

Been following the thread. Great work!!
 

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SavageRiffer":2rihdmwb said:
Damn, the cleans sound real good. Nice and lively. It may be just the previous video, but I like the sound of the cleans more than the overdrive.

Yeah the cleans are gorgeous. I think it may be the diodes. Not sure what they are, but they are very different from the ones in my stock Chupa. The character of the distortion is different. I'm guessing Ceriatone used some other type of diode and then ran out of them and switched to whatever they've been shipping. The Yeti I had, had these same diodes. But my Chupa has something else. No idea what they are, they're encased in some type of large, grey plastic tube.
 
fusedbrain":2an81uog said:
Ran those sims on the tone stack calculator for ya!
The cap doesn't look like that big a difference. The slope resistor is another story......

Been following the thread. Great work!!

Thank you!

So weird, that the cap change yielded a large audible change. But it might have been the plate resistor swap as well. I'll do some more experimenting tomorrow.
 
fusedbrain":6bhuceix said:
Ran those sims on the tone stack calculator for ya!
The cap doesn't look like that big a difference. The slope resistor is another story......

Been following the thread. Great work!!

Oh, also am I understanding this correctly?

The tone stack cap shifts the curve left/right and the resistor shifts the curve up/down?

So a lower value cap shifts the curve to the right, creating a higher resonant frequency?
 
For treble peaker, assuming 470k/470k divider, I have attached the graph below.
 

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All other things staying the same (cathode bypass, etc.), it seems like the higher the V1a plate resistor, the gainer the amp, but also the more snarl and grind. If you go over 330K-390K, you will start to put DC on your guitar's volume pot and it will be scratchy. So you have to add a blocking cap to the input grid. The higher the value of that resistor, the lower the plate voltage. The Chupa's stock value is 470K. The Yeti is 390K. A lot of other builders use lower values like 330K, 220K, etc. And will boost gain later on in the preamp, which is cool too.

I seems that lowering load resistance increases 2nd harmonic and is less shrill according to Merlin Blencowe:

"This shows clearly that a lower load resistance produces more nonlinear distortin than a higher load resistance. Using a higher load resistance is therefore preferable to hifi, except where the high resistance introduces too much noise. However, for guitar it is important to be aware that although the total harmonic distortion reduces as load resistance increases, what little distortion is produces contains an increasing proportion of odd harmonics, which can lend a bright, glassy tone, though it can sometimes tend to shrillness.
Furthermore, a larger load resistance gives a lower anode voltage for a given bias voltage. This means that when the valve is driven towards grid-current limiting the ability of the anode potential to draw electrons through the grid is reduces, allowing heavier grid current to flow instead. The result is a more sudden onset of grid-current limiting and harder clipping for a given source impedance, producing still higher harmonic content and a more hard, 'driven' tone."

Ok I swapped out the 470pF cap in the tone stack for a 560pF and the 470pF in the treble peaker for 500pF. Definitely more mid-range growl and thicker.
I think the difference will be even more noticable with slope resistor change, regarding growl...
Oh, also am I understanding this correctly?

The tone stack cap shifts the curve left/right and the resistor shifts the curve up/down?

So a lower value cap shifts the curve to the right, creating a higher resonant frequency?

Tone stack cap, determines how far left on the eq chart do you want your treble to start,
similar to bright switch where higher values start to introduce high mids... ex. 1nf compared to 220pf

slope resistor change also shifts the mid dip and bass peak, where higher values will shift to the right more...
if you look closely at what fusedbrain posted
 
what bright cap values have you settled on?

Did you compare 820R vs 3K cathode resistor, supossedly hotter bias distortion tends to be more smooth, bluesy, when pushed hard fuzzy compared to cold bias which is more crunchy, hard edged...
 
I haven't decided yet what cap values. Still trying to decide.

The stock 820R cathode resistors definitely have more of a snarl and grind. But the stock plate resistor is also 470K. This amp has 2K7 cathode and 390K plate. The difference between 820R/470K plate and 2K7/390K plate is that the latter is smoother and darker it seems. The stock values produce more of a harder grind with more of a glassy overtone on the highs.
 
I think I've settled on everything. Still have to try it through my other cab, but I think it sounds pretty good (listening through a set of Bose headphones). Gonna start on another build later this week :) Not sure if anybody is interested, but this one's available.

 
don't know if it is placebo or not,
but to me it sounds better in this clip, like fuller, and sounds more like a Marshall, low mid... :)
 
Sounds good. You should try 1.5k resistors for the power tube grid stoppers. You might be surprised.
 
CrazyNutz":hsk4as8b said:
Sounds good. You should try 1.5k resistors for the power tube grid stoppers. You might be surprised.

Instead of 5.6K? Explain please lol.

And you're talking about the control grid, right? Not the screen grid? Because I've seen 1.5K screen grids before...
 
marcus262":2uyv6thi said:
don't know if it is placebo or not,
but to me it sounds better in this clip, like fuller, and sounds more like a Marshall, low mid... :)

Yup, that's what I think too.

It's either placebo or the amp is "breaking in" or the small changes I made actually have an audible effect, even though they are supposedly too small to matter.
 
Yup, that's what I think too.

It's either placebo or the amp is "breaking in" or the small changes I made actually have an audible effect, even though they are supposedly too small to matter.

there is a definite difference, i compared frequencies below for the part where you play Black dog:
part taken for analyzing: "Kraken 50 Test - 10K Dropper" first 17 seconds
and the same riff on "Kraken 50 Final Test".
Lower one is final test.

Of course for this to be as accurate as possible, you would have to eq the amp the same, position microphone the same, and try to play as evenly as you can both riffs.
I can see that later parts of "final test" clip seem louder and it all changes.
Even if you hit a string harder or not precise it can make a difference of 2-3db on some frequencies.



btw, I would't change a thing now, it sounds great now and if you don't stop tweaking at some point you enter frustration zone :)
 
marcus262":3usutwm0 said:
there is a definite difference, i compared frequencies below for the part where you play Black dog:
part taken for analyzing: "Kraken 50 Test - 10K Dropper" first 17 seconds
and the same riff on "Kraken 50 Final Test".
Lower one is final test.

Of course for this to be as accurate as possible, you would have to eq the amp the same, position microphone the same, and try to play as evenly as you can both riffs.
I can see that later parts of "final test" clip seem louder and it all changes.
Even if you hit a string harder or not precise it can make a difference of 2-3db on some frequencies.

Yeah, in the room I hear a difference. But I'm not really being super scientific about it. I'm messing with the EQ and volume and all that and just putting the amp through the paces, so to speak.

btw, I would't change a thing now, it sounds great now and if you don't stop tweaking at some point you enter frustration zone :)

haha! yeah at some point I gotta say enough is enough lol :)
 
FourT6and2":396db3fo said:
CrazyNutz":396db3fo said:
Sounds good. You should try 1.5k resistors for the power tube grid stoppers. You might be surprised.

Instead of 5.6K? Explain please lol.

And you're talking about the control grid, right? Not the screen grid? Because I've seen 1.5K screen grids before...

Yes instead of the 5.6k's on pin5 (Control Grid) try 1.5k's. Tighter more open. Try it see if you like it, super easy to swap.

BTW 1.5k was stock marshall value on many older amps. IMO 5.6k sounds good on overly bright amps, and 1.5k sounds better on darker sounding amps.
 
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