Amp gurus...do preamp tube covers change an amps sound/tone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gooseman
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Ok jerry your right you win. I give up when. My friends are Done I'll ask them to post their results

and this was just an opinion arguement to begin with jerry,the point i was trying to make is that removing the covers does so little why bother,and the arguement came back about more hi-end and in my opinion ,why would we need more high-end when infact ,on my other thread shows 80% of players that responded turn the presence and hi-end down in general ,not questioning your technical abilities or knowledge,not offending you personally with some nasty comments, my friends are conducting the test and i was there helping and saw the results ,and the spectrum guy is coming this week and i'd like to see the results,because if i'm wrong on the effects of the covers ...i'd like to know and i would admit being wrong if i am,no i didnt take notes on thier setting or write down what scope they were using,because i know they will list all of that when they are done.This is a minor topic and i'm certainly not going to start an angry fight with a top tech like you over it.So since i have seem to have offended you i apologize sir ,next time i will bow out of a tech discussion with you when it arises
 
kirk":2s1rvfz8 said:
Ok jerry your right you win. I give up when. My friends are Done I'll ask them to post their results

and this was just an opinion arguement to begin with jerry,the point i was trying to make is that removing the covers does so little why bother,and the arguement came back about more hi-end and in my opinion ,why would we need more high-end when infact ,on my other thread shows 80% of players that responded turn the presence and hi-end down in general ,not questioning your technical abilities or knowledge,not offending you personally with some nasty comments, my friends are conducting the test and i was there helping and saw the results ,and the spectrum guy is coming this week and i'd like to see the results,because if i'm wrong on the effects of the covers ...i'd like to know and i would admit being wrong if i am,no i didnt take notes on thier setting or write down what scope they were using,because i know they will list all of that when they are done.This is a minor topic and i'm certainly not going to start an angry fight with a top tech like you over it.So since i have seem to have offended you i apologize sir ,next time i will bow out of a tech discussion with you when it arises
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This is not about opinion, it's about electronics which with every post you make I think you have little knowledge about.

You are the one that walked into this thread and posted very boldly that it makes no diffference. Go back and read it if you have to. I posted that based on electronics theory it can affect the tone. You and several others swore up and down it makes no difference and proceeded to claim to have tests to prove it, but when push came to shove you had nothing to show. What kind of "tech" can't even remember what he has for a scope on his bench? My guess is you don't have one or you would have answered the question.

The bottom line here is that based on electronics theory it can absolutely make a difference in the tone. The other fact is that not everyone may hear it and it's affected by many other things than just taking the shields off any old amp at any setting and having the same result everytime.
I make no claims that everyone will hear it, all I'm saying is it can happen and anyone with a drop of electronics knowledge would never claim otherwise.
Jerry
 
Instek GOS-620 Oscilloscope Analog 20 MHz 2 Channel
and this is an opinion discussion,in my opinion the difference you refer to is minor ,yes electronically it may be there but its not worth removing them in my opinion and there is another shot at my credibility,why are you so mad jerry did i offend you?or you just a mad guy? sorry to have bothered you,go ahead discredit me ,..i dont care i get enough business
 
In my opinion, Barack Obama is not currently the president of the United States.
 
Without saying I'm convinced removing shields is even worth mentioning for tonal change, I will say that a while back when I had a horrible oscillating squeal in my 6505+ (which turned out to be a bad supply cap in the preamp), placing anything, especially my finger between V6 (which is the crunch mode where the problem existed) and V1 caused a noticeable fluctuation in the tone and continuity of the squeal. It wasn't drastic by any means, and it sounded almost like it made the squeal pan back and forth slightly (as if in stereo). That's obviously proof that proximity of conductive material has an effect on what the tube is doing, but all that being said I'm still on the fence about the shieldless t0anz. At least until I can get a gander at these videos that have been posted a little later tonight.
 
JerryP":3d1hpdlg said:
BeZo":3d1hpdlg said:
What the Bleep Do We Know is a great movie! Check it out. It turned me on to the whole quantum mechanics subject and I haven't been the same since. The brain takes in loads of information and simplifies it to create and experience. YOUR BRAIN LITERALLY CREATES YOUR EXPERIENCE! It's isn't that the world exists without your input.

"Atoms are not things. They are only tendencies." -Werner Heisenberg

Atoms are literally waves of possibility, existing in several places at the same time. But, when the mind comes to define them, they become particles to us. Now, taking into consideration that your mind literally creates the world around you, having an opinion cad cause the mind to amplify the opinion. That would be you hearing the amp sounding better, not entirely a difference in the amp.

Your headlights in your car may be brighter if you remove them from your car, but they need to be there for a reason. Taking the preamp tube covers off of your amp to get a different tone is fucking ridiculous. I have knobs on the front of my amp that can change the tone. If I want it brighter, I can turn up the highs or the presence. I have tube covers on my amp to hold the tubes in place. Getting a slightly better tone isn't entirely worth putting our tubes at risk of damage from the abuse of a gigging musician (some of us play our amps other places besides out bedrooms). And, just like tubes, the headlights in your car are housed, focused, and designed to work better for a longer period of time. They don't put tube covers on the tubes to chance the tone any more than they put halogen bulbs behind a sealed class enclosure to dim the bulb.

If there truly is a difference in the tone, there must be a reason for it. Is there a difference in signal going through the tube when the covers are off? Is there a difference in temperature with the tube covers off? What causes this difference everybody seems to hear?
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Same question for you, if you have knobs that will fix it all why are you having Kirk mod your amps?
I hope you're not saying a vacuum tube and a headlight bulb are the same thing or work the same because nothing could be further from the truth.
As for what causes the change, capacitance is one of the main things. The shield doing it's job to block RF is another. The shield preventing vibration is another. How does a tuning fork work?
Jerry
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The amps I had Kirk mod were not modded to get a different tone. He put a choke transformer in my 5150 to tighten it up. I couldn't turn a knob to do that. Aside from that, all I had him do to my amps was a simple re-tube and bias. He replaced an old cap in my Red Bear. Nothing to do with turning knobs.

My analogy was more about the housing than about the functionality. The headlights of your car are sealed in a water-tight housing for a similar reason there are covers on the preamp tubes. The covers "doing it's job to block RF" and "the shield preventing vibration" is why I choose to leave mine on. When you strike a tuning fork, it resonates to a specific pitch. The same is true for a microphonic preamp tube. Vibration would cause it to be prominent, where limiting vibration would help reduce it's presence.

I'm not saying I'm one of you well educated amp tweakers, so I can't hang in the tech talk. All I'm saying is that I'm happy with my tone, and I would rather keep the shields on my tubes and keep my tone. Ignorance is bliss. I don't want to mess with my satisfaction.
 
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