Anyone have or had a TOL? How do they compare to Bogners?

[richedie]

I hear the TOL is essentially what the Egnater EG3/4 is modelled after? If so...I wonder why most find the EG3/4 too dark for anything other than smokey leads...when the TOL seemed popular for all sortys of music, rhythm and lead!

 

[nenadb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj7T8Bzddiw

 

[richedie]

Egnater TOL sounds smoother and warmer. XTC sounds more harsh. Wonder if both are EL34.

 

[nenadb]

Yes they are.

 

[guitarslinger]

I have:

Fish

M4

IE4

MiCA TOL100




IMO, yes, they are similar, but not the same.

Kind of like

Irish Whiskey -> Egnater
Scotch -> Bogner
Vodka -> Soldano

 

[richedie]

So is the EG3/4 the exact tone of the channel 3 and 4 of the TOL? If so...it is really Bognerish. Maybe that is why I hear guys saying Bogner Ecstacies from the 90s were really dark....but smooth.

 

[mentoneman]

own the tol 100. came with TOS mod done by bruce, a mumetal wrap around the torroidal transformer because the proximity hum was nasty before, and then just had dave friedman mod it for more bluesy gain in ch 2 and more marshallesque snap in ch 3, just because....

i had the bogner 100A and pre-rock tol 100 side by side, into a bogner cab, and it was the first time i heard either amp.
i played the bogner for about 10 minutes and thought it was nice. loved the cab. then i plugged into the tol and a half hour later HAD to have it.

i played the ie4 and 100 combo at friedman's old shop when he was the west coast rep and they were also very cool, but i knew i wanted the head and the bogner cab after that experience. oh yeah the ie4 had a way better sounding channel 2 than the tol 100 ch 2 sounded to my ears. and the pre-rock ch 2 was better than the rocktron channel 2.

in any event, a decade later that amp still stands tall.


my biggest quibble with the amp i have is the channel and master presence circuits are pretty skinny/harsh by my standards.
mojave and VHT have thick organic presence which i LOVE. the tol presence circuit is more cold and solid state-ish by comparison, but oddly, what comes across as harsh to my naked ear actually filters nicely through the mic, sorta like a v30, so your mileage may vary.

 

[richedie]

mentoneman, how do the modules, EG3/4 compare ot the TOL and IE4?

What was the IE4???

So that presence issue...do you hear that in the modular line? I have a 1999 VHT ST/50 for comparison but it has no presence knob!

 

[Beagle1]

own the tol 100. came with TOS mod done by bruce, a mumetal wrap around the torroidal transformer because the proximity hum was nasty before, and then just had dave friedman mod it for more bluesy gain in ch 2 and more marshallesque snap in ch 3, just because....

i had the bogner 100A and pre-rock tol 100 side by side, into a bogner cab, and it was the first time i heard either amp.
i played the bogner for about 10 minutes and thought it was nice. loved the cab. then i plugged into the tol and a half hour later HAD to have it.

i played the ie4 and 100 combo at friedman's old shop when he was the west coast rep and they were also very cool, but i knew i wanted the head and the bogner cab after that experience. oh yeah the ie4 had a way better sounding channel 2 than the tol 100 ch 2 sounded to my ears. and the pre-rock ch 2 was better than the rocktron channel 2.

in any event, a decade later that amp still stands tall.


my biggest quibble with the amp i have is the channel and master presence circuits are pretty skinny/harsh by my standards.
mojave and VHT have thick organic presence which i LOVE. the tol presence circuit is more cold and solid state-ish by comparison, but oddly, what comes across as harsh to my naked ear actually filters nicely through the mic, sorta like a v30, so your mileage may vary.

Mentoneman,

Can you describe the mumetal wrap a bit more? Did Bruce actually do it for you? I get a pretty bad hum out of my MICA 100. It's really not noticeable in the context of a band, but it does bug me a bit in home/practice situations. By contrast my rack rig (either IE-4 or M4 into RT2/50) is dead silent. I asked my amp tech once about the hum from the MICA and he said it was pretty normal for that type of design. Would love to decrease that hum a bit though.

BTW, I totally agree about IE-4 Ch 2. Not that Ch 2 on the MICA is bad or anything, I just love the dynamics and grit on the IE-4 Ch 2. It is pure heaven for that SRV thang. Wish Bruce would do an EG2 dual-channel module for the M4!

 

[mentoneman]

mentoneman, how do the modules, EG3/4 compare ot the TOL and IE4?

What was the IE4???

So that presence issue...do you hear that in the modular line? I have a 1999 VHT ST/50 for comparison but it has no presence knob!

eg3/4 is nice and is basically tol ch 3 an 4...i think there are some minor differences but not bad...just different

ie4 was the 4 channel preamp based on the tol line and the precurser to the modular preamp....independant eqs per channel, versus tol 100 head which shares eq between ch1+2, and again between 3+4

i don't hear the same presence harshness in the modular stuff.

 

[mentoneman]

Mentoneman,

Can you describe the mumetal wrap a bit more? Did Bruce actually do it for you? I get a pretty bad hum out of my MICA 100. It's really not noticeable in the context of a band, but it does bug me a bit in home/practice situations. By contrast my rack rig (either IE-4 or M4 into RT2/50) is dead silent. I asked my amp tech once about the hum from the MICA and he said it was pretty normal for that type of design. Would love to decrease that hum a bit though.

BTW, I totally agree about IE-4 Ch 2. Not that Ch 2 on the MICA is bad or anything, I just love the dynamics and grit on the IE-4 Ch 2. It is pure heaven for that SRV thang. Wish Bruce would do an EG2 dual-channel module for the M4!

i sent it to bruce for some work including the wrap. you take the torroidal transformer and unscrew the nut holding it down on the long bolt in the chassis, so you can lift the tranny up, then you take a circular cut disc of the mumetal and place it under the tranny, extending beyond the tranny slightly, then sit the tranny back down on it. take another piece the height of the tranny and cut it into a strip long enough to encircle the edge of the tranny. finally cut another disc for the "lid", so you basically cover it up like a tuna can and solder it as carefully as you can so there are minimal "leaks".

it really works well. there is still a slight hum if i'm a foot away from the amp, but before it was loud at 3-4 feet away.

yeah i really got a great SRV tone out of ie4 ch2, and on my rock tol100 ch2 it was a totally different vibe. it is the least satisfying channel to play feel wise but if you crank the power section, and hit it with a compressor and a tube screamer type pedal set for low gain, it is a tasty dumble variant ala COD module. but i hear you on the eg2!

 

[mentoneman]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=705969

 

[richedie]

Interesting man, funny so many people complain the EG3/4 is too dark to use on a gig...when I know guys have killed on gigs with the TOL AND you had compared the TOL to a Bogner and chose TOL.

mentoneman, how do the modules, EG3/4 compare ot the TOL and IE4?

What was the IE4???

So that presence issue...do you hear that in the modular line? I have a 1999 VHT ST/50 for comparison but it has no presence knob!

eg3/4 is nice and is basically tol ch 3 an 4...i think there are some minor differences but not bad...just different

ie4 was the 4 channel preamp based on the tol line and the precurser to the modular preamp....independant eqs per channel, versus tol 100 head which shares eq between ch1+2, and again between 3+4

i don't hear the same presence harshness in the modular stuff.

 

[ericsabbath]

the schematic of the 50w version reminds me a lot of the bogner shiva or a cascade wired plexi with more saturation, but it has a lot of hard to read mid voicing tricks before the gain pot

 

[mentoneman]

Interesting man, funny so many people complain the EG3/4 is too dark to use on a gig...when I know guys have killed on gigs with the TOL AND you had compared the TOL to a Bogner and chose TOL.

i think it's all a matter of perspective.

i guarantee if i set the tol with the treble, channel presence, and master presence dimed on channel 3 or 4, no one would ever accuse that amp of being too dark.

the density control makes things fatter/analog sounding without adding too much bass, but too much density makes it mushy.

like any good marshall, you have to involve the power amp to extract the goods and the tol is no different. thus my use of the hotplate. however you can get nice tones at soft volumes, just maybe not as fat and as stable in the stage mix as when you crank it. this is where it gets tricky with the modular. just because you can get nice enjoyable tones at low volumes doesn't mean you should set your tone that way. for me it's always been the case that the more channel and global master i can get away with, the better the tone behaves.

i achieve some power tube compression with the hotplate and it stabilizes the overall performance and sound of my tone live.

one thing i love about the tol is you don't have to have the tone controls dimed in order to achieve sustain and fullness, like a bunch of marshalls i've played.

 

[mentoneman]

the schematic of the 50w version reminds me a lot of the bogner shiva or a cascade wired plexi with more saturation, but it has a lot of hard to read mid voicing tricks before the gain pot

totally different amp from the tol 100.

i had the tol 50 in 2x12 combo form, with a jensen p12n and a gh30, and it was like taking channel 2 of the ie4 and focusing on that particular texas blues voice of the egnater tol line in ampform, like taking the one weakness of the tol 100 and making it a strength in the tol 50. very bluesy bouncy amp as a combo, killer cleans and mid gain rhythm/leads that could go either fender bassman or vox ac30, but not as chimy. but when i plugged that amp into my bogner 4x12 it behaved like a totally different amp. way more marshall gring came out, aerosmith and zz top crunch and leads in terms of gain levels and color.

 

[mentoneman]

you may have seen my tol 100 demo but in case you haven't:

pretty accurate to how i hear the tones i set on the amp and what i love about the amp---flexibility, quality on all channels, and a velvety fat lead and crunch tone with note definition and dynamics.

the squish and forgiveness is very pleasant, but that can work against you if you desire that bold, glassy plexi thing you get from low preamp gain and cranked power tubes ala jtm 45. mojaves have that in spades but the tradeoff is they are very unforgiving and stiffer. germino, ceriatone, and komets are more forgiving and still have that glassy plexi twang

 

[PSGuitar]

Yea, I haven't owned a Marshall in years so I forget having to dime the controls! I like about the Mod 50 is that I can get killer tones at low volume and higher volumes. I don't find I have to push it as hard! My VHT ST needs to be opened up to about 10:00 or so...luckily I have both per situation. I wonder how the Ecstacy would behave in a small club or if the Mod 50 would do me better.

Yea.....I know the EG3/4 is supposed to be like the dark TOL....but like you said...raise the treble and presence! I know some guys complain it doesn't sound as good as modding the module for more upper mids. I disagree...having these modules side by side I can get them identical with the right tweaking. No need to mod.
You actually convinced me (indirectly) to take the EG3/4X back to stock and I think I prefer it....it can be as bright as I want.

I feel like with my VHT I get the best of both worlds....between pre and power amp.....still smooth and forgiving but I get some of the power amp crunch mixed in. I need a pedal when playing it at home.....get it out to a gig...and it needs no pedal. I guess that is the preamp opening up plus the power tubes doing more work.

You have me thinking of looking for an older TOL rather than a Bogner XTC, LOL. Althought that new 20th Shiva is tempting. I hear you can get it with EL34s.

Interesting man, funny so many people complain the EG3/4 is too dark to use on a gig...when I know guys have killed on gigs with the TOL AND you had compared the TOL to a Bogner and chose TOL.

i think it's all a matter of perspective.

i guarantee if i set the tol with the treble, channel presence, and master presence dimed on channel 3 or 4, no one would ever accuse that amp of being too dark.

the density control makes things fatter/analog sounding without adding too much bass, but too much density makes it mushy.

like any good marshall, you have to involve the power amp to extract the goods and the tol is no different. thus my use of the hotplate. however you can get nice tones at soft volumes, just maybe not as fat and as stable in the stage mix as when you crank it. this is where it gets tricky with the modular. just because you can get nice enjoyable tones at low volumes doesn't mean you should set your tone that way. for me it's always been the case that the more channel and global master i can get away with, the better the tone behaves.

i achieve some power tube compression with the hotplate and it stabilizes the overall performance and sound of my tone live.

one thing i love about the tol is you don't have to have the tone controls dimed in order to achieve sustain and fullness, like a bunch of marshalls i've played.

 

[richedie]

Have you played the EG3/4???? Your TOL reminds me of the stock EG3/4. Sounds like you like my kind of tones. Having the EG3/4 back in my MOD 50 has me thinking I'll be keeping this hea d awhile.

Wish they had made a TOL50! Did they? Your tones kill! Love that channel 2....nice crunch tones! Channel 4...Oh my! Wow! So thick and rich, smooth! That is what caused me to fall in love with the EG3/4...not sure why I ever changed it to the EG3/4X.

On the PLexi thinkg and stiffness. A buddy of mine gigs with a PLexi but runs it on 1....he then gets his gain from a dirt pedal. HEY, it works and sounds killer!

 

[mentoneman]

Yea, I haven't owned a Marshall in years so I forget having to dime the controls! I like about the Mod 50 is that I can get killer tones at low volume and higher volumes. I don't find I have to push it as hard! My VHT ST needs to be opened up to about 10:00 or so...luckily I have both per situation. I wonder how the Ecstacy would behave in a small club or if the Mod 50 would do me better.

Yea.....I know the EG3/4 is supposed to be like the dark TOL....but like you said...raise the treble and presence! I know some guys complain it doesn't sound as good as modding the module for more upper mids. I disagree...having these modules side by side I can get them identical with the right tweaking. No need to mod.
You actually convinced me (indirectly) to take the EG3/4X back to stock and I think I prefer it....it can be as bright as I want.

I feel like with my VHT I get the best of both worlds....between pre and power amp.....still smooth and forgiving but I get some of the power amp crunch mixed in. I need a pedal when playing it at home.....get it out to a gig...and it needs no pedal. I guess that is the preamp opening up plus the power tubes doing more work.

You have me thinking of looking for an older TOL rather than a Bogner XTC, LOL. Althought that new 20th Shiva is tempting. I hear you can get it with EL34s.

imo bogners have come a long way....the xtc classic really sweetened a bunch of things in that amp....way more open and alive
but price makes the TOL an amazing deal, from day one. and if you rig it up w/ effects, the features become deal sealers. 4 channels, great loop, slave out to drive w/d/w, and the amp was almost born to live in a great rack system.

i shot that youtube bradshaw rack demo with the tol as the tone generator feeding zachman's rack and in that context the amp takes on so many personalities....my friend brad played on that demo and used different approaches like playing on ch 4 with the gtr vol rolled down..something i wouldn't normally do on that channel but it sounded great.
channel 2 which i'm not in love with sounded ridiculous with the pedals in front of it. SRV!
and channel 1 was landau city!

yet when i use the amp with my gforce rig i tend to stay on ch 3 alot and use it like a marshall...roll off for cleaner stuff, hit it with a bb preamp for leads...tends to be less hassle setting levels, but ch 4 is at the ready when i wanna soar, and the chorus/delay/verb fendery cleans are just a button away as well.