Axe-fx vs Tube Amps... my first experience.

[mortega76]

A big thanks to Matt (mhenson42) for inviting us over to his house... it was a pleasure meeting you and your family. Crazy thing is that his buddy (Paul) showed up and after we got to talking a bit we found out that we've jammed out with a couple of the same folks... Such a small world...

Again... big thanks to Matt for the invite... it was an eye opening experience.

I've used the Axe-fx for over 2 years and it's been my go to amp since I've gotten it... before that I had a Vetta II HD and before that I had a Marshall Valavestate 200. When I got the Axe-fx it was on 5.1x and I was not crazy about it... my band mates were telling that I should have stayed with my Vetta II HD... and at the time I completely agreed with them even though I only ever told them that I just needed some time to get acquainted with it. Well, it didn't get any better (for me) until 7.xx came out and the power amp modeling got a big boost from Cliff's voodoo magic code. 8.xx only updated the drive blocks so it didn't affect my tone... then 9.xx came out and the power amp modeling got another big update. 10.xx came out and via my headphones everything sounded soooo much better, but when I had my last practice, everything sounded so much more fizzier... not necessarily a harsh digital fizz, but just a fizz in general... I defaulted the amp parameters, lowered the gain, upped the master, upped the presence and I could not find a way to make it sound "brewtal" enough for me. That's where I'm at with the Axe-fx as of now... powered by my QSC GX5.

Matt had a great line up of amps... Bogner Ubershall, Diezel Herbert, Axe-fx Ultra, Mako Mak4, along with SLA2, Fryette 2/50/2 and the Fryette 2/90/2 and his buddy brought over a ENGL SE that he was going to re-tube for him... pretty much every piece of gear I've ever wanted to hear was there. All this gear was going to go through two awesome looking (and sounding) Mills cabs with V30/G12K-100 X-pattern.

First up was the Diezel Herbert that I've really wanted to play ever since I heard the Cancer Bat song "Hail Destroyer" and someone here on Rig Talk said they used this amp. Well, I was playing on Channel 3 (thinking this should be the best of the three) and I had a hard time trying to make it sound good... I don't have any experience with tube amps so I ask why the tone was "jumping" and why it was a bit "compressed" on the low end, maybe a bit of "pumping"... little did I know that this is exactly what tube amps do... they interact with your playing.

I stopped playing that amp because the ENGL SE was ready to be tested. Well, that amp sounded thick as fuck!!! Brewtals galore!!! He played that for a while and I was initially blown away... After he stopped playing the ENGL I asked if they could A/B it to the the Bogner Ubershall... the Bogner sounded very smooth and no where near as brewtal as the ENGL so, but together they sounded pretty good... I really didn't adjust the Ubershall all that much.

I came back to the Herbert and tried Channel 2... waaaaaay better sounding that Channel 3... much more open and tighter distortion sound.

Well, then we come to the Mako Mak4... Matt connected it to the Fryette 2/90/2 and put it on the Dorado channel... gain around 8-9 o'clock, low to around 11 o'clock, mid at noon, and high to around 2 o'clock and volume to taste. It was the best high gain distortion I have ever heard in my life. That sucker was a buffet of upper frequency goodness. I played that amp for 20 minutes straight and every so often I would pick up my jaw off the floor and tell the guys how awesome this setup sounded. For the first time I really thought of selling my rig and getting a Mako Mak4 and Fryette 2/90/2.

I then asked them to A/B the Mako to the the ENGL SE and it was no comparison... the ENGL SE had a great low end (but very round) and the mids and highs were just ok (after hearing what the Mako sounded like). Together they sounded very very good... the Mako did lack a bit in the lows so the ENGL combo was perfect. Maybe putting a PEQ in the chain would have helped. The Mako was tightest, thickest, meatiest, most brewtal tone I have ever heard... it just needs a bit more low end but damn that setup was phenomenal, I cannot stress that enough...

Finally we connected the Axe-fx with my QSC GX5 and on my best patch it sounded as if the top 25% of the high end (harmonic) juicy goodness was just gone compared to most of the amp sims I tried... we used the SLO, Recto's, Bogner's, Das Metall, and only the Peavey 5150 came close... but still it lacked the top 25% of the goodness that the Mak4-2/90/2 had. The Mako clean channel was a great sounding channel as well... the Plexi, sounded similar to an over driven Plexi amp sim from the Axe-fx without the 25% goodness.

We then disconnected the QSC and connected the SLA2 and it sounded even worse... I've always heard folks saying that it sounds great but it really sounded bad... I don't get what folks hear in the SLA2.

So if I had to rate them...

1. Mako Mak4 with the Fryette 2/90/2 (we tried it with the 2/50/2 as well but I preferred the 2/90/2)
2. This was really a toss up between the ENGL SE and the Herbert Channel 2... but I gave it to the ENGL SE
3. Herbert Channel 2...
4. Bogner Ubershall... this amp was the one I really wanted to hear and was a bit disappointed compared to the Mako.
5. Herbert Channel 3...
5. Axe-fx... this is another big disappointment... maaaaaaan... I had no idea was I was missing... I really want to buy a Fryette 2/90/2 and run it with my Axe-fx and see if I get better results than what we got at Matt's... I didn't get a chance to try any of my patches with the Fryette 2/90/2... maybe next time. I was lucky that the warden... I mean... my wife didn't get mad at me for staying so long at his pad so I didn't want to push the issue... hahahahaha

Very short review to an awesome day at Matt's house... thank you so much for inviting us into your home.

P.S. Cliff... if you are reading this... please... please... please model the Mako Mak4 Durado channel... that channel is the ultimate in metal brewtalz.

P.S.S. Two things I didn't like about the Mako were that the sucker is big (but still light) and the old school knobs... give us some chrome!!!!

P.S.S.S. Anyone from Mako want to send me a Mak4?!?!?? Please!?!!!? Pretty Please?!?!?!?

 

[bubbastain]

 

[hunter]

Yeah after 2 years with the Axe, having been a tube amp guy for almost 20 years before, I went back to my amps now. It's a great tool, but it doesn't replace the real life experience of a quality amp just yet.

 

[SuperFlyinMonke]

Nice review. Welcome back to the real world.

I have yet to give any of those products the gears, though I would really love to.

 

[sled]

Great review.

I think I can get your liking the Mak4 because I absolutely love my Dorado...

 

[mortega76]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Yeah after 2 years with the Axe, having been a tube amp guy for almost 20 years before, I went back to my amps now. It's a great tool, but it doesn't replace the real life experience of a quality amp just yet.

You obviously didn't dive deep enough into it, two years isn't enough time.

The latest revision is supposed to be even better than the last one

 

[Dallas Marlow]

I know there's a lot of people that absolutely love their Axe-FX I for one have never played one, but at the same time have never had any desire to just based purely on clips. It's not that I think it sounds bad, it just doesn't sound "real" enough to me if that makes sense?

That being said, I think for certain situations it's impossible to beat, if your in a cover band, I don't think there's going to be anything better than showing up to a gig with just an AXE plugging into the PA and going to town. Plus I've heard even using it as just an effects processor is awesome as well.

The other thing to keep in mind, maybe side by side the sound is still lacking, but I bet by the time you get everything tracked for a song and then mix it, the difference in the context of the mix becomes much less apparent and even negligible.

 

[RedB4Black]

Had a great time yesterday. Great to meet you Mo

Glad I could open you eyes to the world of tubes, though I think you and Paul would be better served with a bass amp with your guitars tuned down to drop B flat.

The more I play the Mak4, the more I love it. Yesterday it did take the prize. I think the low-end is fine on the pre-amp - but next to the SE, Uberschall and Herbert, any amp is gonna sound lacking for low-end. Next time we'll bump up the bass and depth on the Fryette a little more.

I still don't discount the Axe FX. It's a killer piece of gear. I think that fizzyness you may be hearing in your patches was due to the reworked presence modeling. If I recall, you run the presence fairly high. I bet if you toned it back a little, it might help. Next time we'll spend more time tweaking the Axe with the 2/90/2.

We put KT66s in the SE. That amp has an insane amount of low end when you engage the depth boost and lo-puch (whatever those switches are called). The SE is still one of my all-time favorite tone for the Brootz.

 

[RedB4Black]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

Cleveland is a far cry from Heaven...but Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is one of my all time favorites.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Yeah after 2 years with the Axe, having been a tube amp guy for almost 20 years before, I went back to my amps now. It's a great tool, but it doesn't replace the real life experience of a quality amp just yet.

You obviously didn't dive deep enough into it, two years isn't enough time.

But after owning a Vetta II HD and a Valvestate 200 you'd figure the Axe-Fx would be a cake walk?

 

[sled]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

Cleveland is a far cry from Heaven...but Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is one of my all time favorites.

I love Porters...

 

[spawnofthesith]

Great review, sounds like it was a blast. Has anyone done any recorded clips of the Mak4 yet? The price on those seems to good to be true

 

[hunter]

Yeah after 2 years with the Axe, having been a tube amp guy for almost 20 years before, I went back to my amps now. It's a great tool, but it doesn't replace the real life experience of a quality amp just yet.

You obviously didn't dive deep enough into it, two years isn't enough time.

I was digging VERY deep. Really wanted to make it work. Search my posts on the Axe forum and you will see that I contributed a lot of good patches and clips.

I also did this vid, quite shortly before I sold the unit:

 

[Ricky Rockhardo]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

Cleveland is a far cry from Heaven...but Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is one of my all time favorites.

The Mistake by the Lake isn't bad, but its no San Antonio. I personally like alot Eliot Ness, but the Edmund Fitzgerald is great.

 

[Mark Day]

We then disconnected the QSC and connected the SLA2 and it sounded even worse... I've always heard folks saying that it sounds great but it really sounded bad... I don't get what folks hear in the SLA2.

When I first got my AxeFx I tried a bunch of different amps. The SLA2, Mesa 2:100, Fryette 2/50/2, OD100se+ power section and my Egnater Seminar head power section.
At the time my order of preference was:
OD100
Mesa 2:100
Fryette 2/50/2
Egnater
SLA2

I was able to tweak the AxeFx by adding a PEQ and GEQ block to get the SLA2 to sound more like the Mesa 2:100, not by any means perfect, however very close.

My criteria for a poweramp was: stereo, weight, cost, size and tone.
Lets face it the SLA 2 is very inexpensive. If I had the extra bucks I would definitely go for the Mesa 2:100 or Fryette but they cost at least $1200 more where I am in Canada.

This is not saying that the AxeFx is way better than tube amps or vise versa, this is not saying that the AxeFx needs tube power to sound great. What I'm saying is that any amp that costs $299 probably is not in the same tone category as an $1800 poweramp.

Is the ART SLA2 the best amp for the AxeFx or any preamp....FUCK NO!!! Is it a light, inexpensive single rack space LOUD stereo amp that can work well with the AxeFX..yup.

Before anyone starts slagging me for the AxeFx.....I still own and love my tube amps and I love my AxeFx.

The only thing that's better than both is of course is, bacon...but that's a whole different discussion.

Mark

 

[mortega76]

We then disconnected the QSC and connected the SLA2 and it sounded even worse... I've always heard folks saying that it sounds great but it really sounded bad... I don't get what folks hear in the SLA2.

When I first got my AxeFx I tried a bunch of different amps. The SLA2, Mesa 2:100, Fryette 2/50/2, OD100se+ power section and my Egnater Seminar head power section.
At the time my order of preference was:
OD100
Mesa 2:100
Fryette 2/50/2
Egnater
SLA2

I was able to tweak the AxeFx by adding a PEQ and GEQ block to get the SLA2 to sound more like the Mesa 2:100, not by any means perfect, however very close.

My criteria for a poweramp was: stereo, weight, cost, size and tone.
Lets face it the SLA 2 is very inexpensive. If I had the extra bucks I would definitely go for the Mesa 2:100 or Fryette but they cost at least $1200 more where I am in Canada.

This is not saying that the AxeFx is way better than tube amps or vise versa, this is not saying that the AxeFx needs tube power to sound great. What I'm saying is that any amp that costs $299 probably is not in the same tone category as an $1800 poweramp.

Is the ART SLA2 the best amp for the AxeFx or any preamp....FUCK NO!!! Is it a light, inexpensive single rack space LOUD stereo amp that can work well with the AxeFX..yup.

Before anyone starts slagging me for the AxeFx.....I still own and love my tube amps and I love my AxeFx.

The only thing that's better than both is of course is, bacon...but that's a whole different discussion.

Mark

That was funny... I wonder if Cliff could model the thick juiciness of a good piece of crispy bacon... mmmmmmmmmmm.... bacon.

I actually preferred the Fryette 2/90/2 over the 2/50/2... definitely sounded beefier. Have you tried it? I wonder how much better the Mesa 2:100 is to the Fryette 2/90/2... damn! I never thought I'd ever being talking about tube (power)amps.

 

[mortega76]

Had a great time yesterday. Great to meet you Mo

Glad I could open you eyes to the world of tubes, though I think you and Paul would be better served with a bass amp with your guitars tuned down to drop B flat.

The more I play the Mak4, the more I love it. Yesterday it did take the prize. I think the low-end is fine on the pre-amp - but next to the SE, Uberschall and Herbert, any amp is gonna sound lacking for low-end. Next time we'll bump up the bass and depth on the Fryette a little more.

I still don't discount the Axe FX. It's a killer piece of gear. I think that fizzyness you may be hearing in your patches was due to the reworked presence modeling. If I recall, you run the presence fairly high. I bet if you toned it back a little, it might help. Next time we'll spend more time tweaking the Axe with the 2/90/2.

We put KT66s in the SE. That amp has an insane amount of low end when you engage the depth boost and lo-puch (whatever those switches are called). The SE is still one of my all-time favorite tone for the Brootz.

Matt, Thank you for inviting me into your home... you were a gracious host and one of the coolest guys I've ever met. Paul was a blast as well... I can't believe he's jammed out with two of the guys I pretty much (musically) grew up with... it was a pleasure to meet you as well... hope to do it again soon!!!

 

[Mark Day]

Before anyone starts slagging me for the AxeFx.....I still own and love my tube amps and I love my AxeFx.

and we love you Mark, always forever....

and I love you for all the kind things you say here and also for changing your avatar

 

[RedB4Black]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

Cleveland is a far cry from Heaven...but Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is one of my all time favorites.

The Mistake by the Lake isn't bad, but its no San Antonio. I personally like alot Eliot Ness, but the Edmund Fitzgerald is great.

I drove that keg all they way back from Cleveland. You could say I'm a beer junkie. Try some of their Blackout Stout. Great stuff.