Back to 5881s...

[jmgman69]

If you take the MHG be prepared!

For what? You mean because it is dark?

I might look at getting another module soon. Something versatile that is capable of rock and metal in channel A. Would this be the EG5 or the EG3/4? The SL2 interests me but it sounds like channel A may only be good for classic rock and hard rock....not heavier styles.

If I get a boost pedal for leads, then I could use both channel A and B for rhythm as well.

I took my MHG out and jammed with a couple of marshalls and they sort of bury the MHG.I had to crank the the mids,treble and presence to the point of exhaustion.NOW the EG5 just tears ass into the Marshall family The SL2 will cut and sound fine in lots of situations.Two great modules to have.

 

[richedie]

[/quote]
I took my MHG out and jammed with a couple of marshalls and they sort of bury the MHG.I had to crank the the mids,treble and presence to the point of exhaustion.NOW the EG5 just tears ass into the Marshall family The SL2 will cut and sound fine in lots of situations.Two great modules to have.[/quote]

I do crank up the mids and treble but hate the presence up high. I ytalked to some guys who tried the EG5 but said it was too bright and 80s metal sounding so I decided to skip it........however, I am thinking of trying it.

The thing is, I like thick and somewhat dark...but cutting. Does that make sense? LOL! I don't use an EQ in the loop for leads although I am tempted now...because I like lots of mids for soloing and hate bright lead tones so that is part of why I avoid those modules but I also need to be heard!

I was relying on using channel A of a module for rhythm and channel B for lead. Is that too lomiting? Maybe I should just grab an EQ for leads, throw it in the loop so I can just step on it for leads and use both channels.

I know there are some nice EQ pedals and also that Dunlop driver/booster or something.

What do you think would be a good module if I like thick and heavy? EG5 or EG3/4? Does the 3/4 cut better than the MHG?

Guys, are there any EL34s that work well with the Mod 50?

 

[richedie]

Just pick a good EH or Chinese for V1 of the amp. We are talking mainly about the modules. V1 in the module is the one on the left as you face it. Definitely makes a difference.

I have the stock EH, but I also have a Mullard of some sort, not sure if it is a 12AX7 or someother variation. I also have a Tung Sol 12AX7. The Mullard is a W or something?

 

[richedie]

I installed the 5881s and they sound thinner than the SED EL34s.......not as saggy and warm but maybe if I bias it up to about 34 it might thicken and warm up.

 

[jmgman69]

I'm still waiting on mine Damn!

 

[Telefied]

I installed the 5881s and they sound thinner than the SED EL34s.......not as saggy and warm but maybe if I bias it up to about 34 it might thicken and warm up.

I need them at 33-38 before I really like them. Are you refering to clean or dirty tones in your post?

 

[richedie]

I installed the 5881s and they sound thinner than the SED EL34s.......not as saggy and warm but maybe if I bias it up to about 34 it might thicken and warm up.

I need them at 33-38 before I really like them. Are you refering to clean or dirty tones in your post?

The Egnater manual recommends to set them between 28 and 35. I have them at about 32 but will try 34 or 35 since I seem to like tubes biased hot. How do you know if they are a matched pair? About 3m from each other? One is at about 32 and the other around 33.

This is with dirty tones, seems to lack some of the girth I notice with the SED EL34s. I tend to play my best with very thick and juicy, saggy tones. That is a big reason I always like darker amps, thick sounding amps, thick sounding pickups, dark, smooth, etc. Unfortunately I sometimes have trouble staying the mix but not always.

I do find them to add some clarity and sparkle on the top end but there is that one element of missing thick mids. Maybe somewhere there is the perfect EL34 for me and this amp?

Actually, I haven't spent enough time on EQ so I need more time in their defence and I am going to bump up the bias as well. I do notice more detail and clarity which will help since the MHG can be dark. I notice I can dial back the treble on the Mod with the 5881s and not lose as much cut.

Do these work well with other modules as well?

What about preamp tubes for V1? I have some tung sols, mullards and EH. Pretty similar?

 

[Buckeyedog]

Richie, I'll try some KT77's and let you know as they are supposed to be sort of a mix too I think. I have them in my class build Eggie head and I love them! I'll try them in the mod. I also find the 34's give the crunchy modules just a bit extra of that mid thickness too. I set my 5881's around 32, so maybe I'll bump them up a bit and try.

 

[Telefied]

Ahhhhh richedie yeah I hear ya now. I will concurr that the MHG and SL2 sound killer with SED EL34s. The 5881s are the best balance for clean and dirty IMO. But to you your point the darker more modded marsh sounded gains do sound better with the SED EL34s. I play alot of blues rock and straight up blues which the 5881s do excellently. i would say for a more scooped mid modern gain tone the 5881s are the shizz too.

Ultimately if you dig the el34 tone with the MHG then my guess is you will never be happy with a 6L6/5881 type tube. Good luck on the glass search!

 

[Guitarvc]

I agree on the E34L's I have a pair put them in once played for 10 mins and took them out. I have never lit them up since.

As far as lead tone and thickness with the Tung 5881 goes... well that is one of the main reasons I can't stop using them. Not sure what kind of lead tone you dig but overall my "big picture" power tube observations are this for the MOD50. Listed in order of prefrence.

Tung 5881: Solid bottom end, sweet harmonic mid range (i.e. thicknesss!!!!) sparkley top end, detail galore and that tube vibe, you just have a bit more sag I guess. These crunch up sweet regardless of module.

JJ 6V6: Similar to the 5881 above but "smaller" and a bit more "boxy". Lower volume. More power tube saturation. Excellent for bedroom play.

JJ 6L6GC: Big bottom end, clear detail, good harmonics, big ole hole in the mid-range (i.e. lack of thickness) and dark top end. Crunch is not that aggressive and more "modern" dare I say.

Tung Sol 5L6GC-STR: Just got these. Sound very similar to the Winged C but without the farty low end issue. Just missing the warmth and sweetness in the mid range of the TUng 5881's or they would be the perfect tube.

SED 6L6GC Winged C: Sparkley Top end and more mids than most 6L6 tubes. Only thing here is in order to get the crunch to sound harmonic you have to Bias them up hot and then you loose the low end detial and it gets a bit ratty or farty.

Sovtek 5881WXT: Safe, simple flat. These do not color the tone but do not have anything spectacular to offer IMO. Sound decent with any module.

What is not worth giving a one on one description are the following tubes I tried. All had issues in tone one way or anohter soooo bad they never lasted more than 10 mins in the head.
- Groove Tubes 6L6GC-s
- TAD 6L6GC
- JJ E34L
- SED Winged C EL34
- TAD 5881

Later

Thanks for the review. I was considering switching to SED 6L6's in my Mod 50 because of my extremely positive experience using them in a Bogner Shiva. In the Shiva, those tubesw delivered sweet cleans and a smooth yet articulate overdrive. Since I run the TD and SL2 modules, I thought that my cleans would be better with the 6L6 rather than the stock 5881's. Now I don't have to waste my money. I'll stick with the 5881's in this amp. Later I will get the VX and EG5 modules and use the new 2 space preamp that Egnater showed at the NAMM show, along with the 8 button footswitch. Since I use pedalboard for effects, I can use the series loop. I have my Mod 50 with reverb, thus the parallel loop is being used.

As Ted Nugent said " If it sounds like a chainsaw it has good tone!" Right now my tone is outstanding. With the addition of the other 2 modules I will be able to take versatile to all new heights. The Mod 50 is by far the best sounding amp that has almost unlimited tonal verstility.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Just tried the KT77's......nope. They'll stay in the Eggie build head.

Do try to bias the 5881's up a little bit though. Get them to 34 or so. I just boosted mine up a bit and it does make a little difference.

 

[EWSEthan]

Just tried the KT77's......nope. They'll stay in the Eggie build head.

Do try to bias the 5881's up a little bit though. Get them to 34 or so. I just boosted mine up a bit and it does make a little difference.

Yeah, 34 is the magic number for me too.

 

[richedie]

Telefied, what modules do you use?

Are the 5881s supposed to be basically 6L6 tubes? The thing is.....I always admire the big low rubmle from 6L6 tubes but hate em for lead playing.

Okay, I'll try boosting the bias up to about 34 or 35 and see what I think. If not, it will be back to the search for the perfect EL34 or stick with the SED EL34s. I think my next modules will be the SL2 and EG3/4 which should all do well with the EL34s. I even much prefered EL34s in my Rectifier when I had that one. 6L6s and KT88s always felt too stiff and thin for leads. Something about EL34s does it for me I guess.

I wish I could have both...that modern low rumble of a rectifier or othe rmodern amp with the thick lead voice of a Marshall in one mod! hehehe.....it is tough since they share the same power section.

 

[Telefied]

Telefied, what modules do you use?

Are the 5881s supposed to be basically 6L6 tubes? The thing is.....I always admire the big low rubmle from 6L6 tubes but hate em for lead playing.

Okay, I'll try boosting the bias up to about 34 or 35 and see what I think. If not, it will be back to the search for the perfect EL34 or stick with the SED EL34s. I think my next modules will be the SL2 and EG3/4 which should all do well with the EL34s. I even much prefered EL34s in my Rectifier when I had that one. 6L6s and KT88s always felt too stiff and thin for leads. Something about EL34s does it for me I guess.

I wish I could have both...that modern low rumble of a rectifier or othe rmodern amp with the thick lead voice of a Marshall in one mod! hehehe.....it is tough since they share the same power section.

Well I am using B'Man and SL2 as my main setup. The B'Man A set warm clean and the B setup with the gain like 12:00 for bluesy breakup. SL2 A is setup for Blues rock leads with gain only at like 11:00 or a bit less. The B is actually used for chunky heavy rhtyhm (like soundgarden or AIC) and gain is at 12:00.

Basically I am not using the modules to sound traditional marsh at all. Thus one of the reasons the 5881 sound so good.

Well from what Jon atthe Tubestore and other amp pros have told me the Tung Sol 5881 are true 5881s and they are like a 6l6 with a shorter plate and bottle and actualy a lower plate voltage. Orignially thought to be the perfect 6L6 for Fender style "hanging down" type tubes sockets while 6L6 was for horizontal of "straight up" marshall style sockets. The Sovtek 588WXT is actually not a 6"6 or a 5881 it is some weird russian military tube that has so many similaritys Sov said ahhhh we call it 5881 haha

I also use the Erect, Vox and T/D modules and dig diff tubes with each but Tung 5881s are my main for all around

 

[richedie]

It sounds like you are saying the MHG and SL2 might be best with the EL34s? How about JJs? Although you said the 5881s are the best balance for clean and dirty. It is confusing.

I am thinnking for my next module, I'll go SL2 or EG3/4, however, I thikn I need some sort of clean boost for leads so I do not have to rely on always using channel B for all leads as that is limiting. I like that you said you can get heavy chunky rhythm from the SL2. I just need to spend more time to be sure I can get a thick lead from the 5881s.

I thikn I recall Bonb at Eurotubes telling me 5881s are basically just 6L6s. At least I have both the 5881s and the SED EL34s if I want to go back but my bias seems to drift so maybe I need new EL34s. Are JJEL34s the way to go on EL34s?

Can you get those chunky heavy rhtyhms (like soundgarden or AIC) on channel A of the SL2? I thought channel A and B are different - B is the hot rodded Marshall. I ask because I tend to use channel B for all solos and just crank the gain on channel A for all rhythms. This way I can roll back the guitar volume for less gain or just reach over and roll it back on the amp. It is a problem if channel A and B are different however. I would need an external boost.

I envy a friend of mine who just uses one channel of his Marshall for gigs. He cranks the gain and this way controls all gain with his guitar's volume knob. However, in my situations, I would need two identical channels...one for lead and one for rhythm, unless I get a boost pedal like the Keely.

 

[Telefied]

It sounds like you are saying the MHG and SL2 might be best with the EL34s? How about JJs? Although you said the 5881s are the best balance for clean and dirty. It is confusing.

Haha yeah I think it is the word "dirty" that is the cause fo the confusion. When i say dirty I mean bluesy break-up dirty. I think when you hear "dity" you are thinging saturated Marshall distorted lead dirty.

I do not mean that EL34 are "best" for SL2 and MHG I just think they may be best for you based on your prefrence and how you use those modules. Some dudes just love that mid-range harmonics from El34 type tubes. As far as JJ E34Ls go I liked them better than the SED EL34 but again for my taste the 5881s by Tung Sol are the choice.

Can you get those chunky heavy rhtyhms (like soundgarden or AIC) on channel A of the SL2? I thought channel A and B are different - B is the hot rodded Marshall. I ask because I tend to use channel B for all solos and just crank the gain on channel A for all rhythms. This way I can roll back the guitar volume for less gain or just reach over and roll it back on the amp. It is a problem if channel A and B are different however. I would need an external boost.

I have not been able to achive those thypes of tones on Channel A of the SL2 or at least not to my liking. You are correct the two channels are voice and respond a bit different. You may need the EG5 or EG3/4 and then like the VOX for cleans and run JJ E34L tubes.

In my case I get the following with Tung Sol 5881s and I am happy (these all have EH 12aX7 in them)
- B'Man A: Clean and Warm
- B'Man B: Bluesy Breakup
- SL2 A: BLues Rock Leads
- SL2 B: Heavy Chunky Rhythm

Not sure if that helps but bottom line for me is El34 tubes can not do all 4 things I just listed above. Although they could do the Sl2 B option I listed.

Hope that helps

 

[richedie]

Thanks dude, I know Doug at Doug's tubes was saying the JJ E34Ls are not that great due to exagerated bass and many guys say just do the standard JJEL34s but who knows! It is all opinion, right?

Anyway, can the EG3/4 (3) get more gain than the SL2 channel A?

Right now with the MHG and I assume I would do the same with the EG5, I do the following:
Bsman A - clean and warm
B - dirty rhythm for old AC/DC and Led Zep
MHG A - high gain rhythm and I roll back the gain or guitar volume for lower gain Led Zep, Rush and others.
Channel B - High gain lead.

With something like the SL2 I thikn I would need the boost pedal but I am not sure if the EG3/4 have identical channels although I assume not!

 

[EWSEthan]

For what its worth, Jason (jmgman) told me last week that his SL2 has more gain than mine and we think it might be becuase he has chinese tubes in it. Reinhold also uses chinese preamp tubes in the Bogner amps so thats something to try, for sure.

 

[jmgman69]

I really think it did!I've been jammin for a couple of hours on and off with the SL2 and the YJs in and it's killer.I've got a set of these tung sols due in at any time now and I'll do a little comparison,not that it matters,LOL but these little YJs do some coolshit!I love my MOD!!!!!

 

[jmgman69]

O.K. I just put these in and I didn't get much time to crank it(wife was here)but W.T.F. these tubes sound SWEEEEEEET.I can't wait for the wife to split or roll the MOD out in the garage