Bare Knuckle pickups. Who’s used them. What’s what.

[Rex Rocker]

I'd love to try an Aftermath or a Painkiller... but how is the QC on them?

I remember back in the day, they marketed as "they're all unique because they're hand scatterwound"... which honestly, kinda kept me away from them.

I've had bad luck receiving some odd Duncans that measured abnormally low on the multimeter and sounded weak and thin. It's not happened a lot, but I must have had at least two or three. Are BKP's anything like that?

 

[HanJolo]

I replaced the standard pickups in my Gibson Explorer (496R/500T) with ceramic nailbombs and my ESP Horizon NT-II (jb/59) with alnico nailbombs years ago and I thought it greatly improved the sound of both guitars in pretty much every way. I never tried any other pickups in those guitars though, so I can't speak to anything other than BKP vs the stock ones.

When I bought them I contacted BKP and described what I was looking for in each guitar and they offered a few suggestions with the different characteristics of each pickup.

I thought I recorded the before / after when I swapped pickups but I can't seem to find those clips. If I do find those I'll post them.

I also think the price has gone up quite a bit from what I paid for them, so it's tough to say if the pricetag is worth it. I wanted to put some warpigs into a Jackson I own, but I held off because of the pricetag and I don't play as much anymore.

 

[Metalhex]

I used to have a PRS SE Soapbar ii and I put a Bareknuckle pig p90 in the bridge and it absolutely crushed. Man I miss that rig

 

[cardinal]

I've used a few. They all seem to have sort of a dry, unsaturated sound IMHO, compared to something like the similar Duncan pickup. Whether that's good or bad depends on what you want.

 

[GuitarGuy08]

I've used a few. They all seem to have sort of a dry, unsaturated sound IMHO, compared to something like the similar Duncan pickup. Whether that's good or bad depends on what you want.

I use Silos in a custom guitar and absolutely love them but completely agree with this comment. You either love or hate that sound. Extra clear and tight with any level of gain but zero forgiveness. Putting in a standard 500k pot takes that edge off. I specifically want this guitar to have that clarity and edge and I also find myself leaning towards more unforgiving tones, even if it is to my own detriment I would check out ToneNerd pickups (never have played any) or Planet Tone- I have a single coil set that is balls out freaking amazing from here!!

 

[TX6Strings]

As said earlier, BKPs seem to do very specific things and depending upon what you’re looking for and how they interact with the specific guitar they’re put in your results will very.

I’m running a set of Rebel Yells in one PRS Single Cut and Abraxas in another. I love them, but I’ve also tried their Mules and Black Dog and wasn’t overwhelmed.

 

[PurityS.L.G]

Here's what I currently have;

Riff Raff in an SG
Rebel Yell in an LPC
VHII in a partscaster w/ FR
Juggernaut uninstalled now
Painkiller in a Schecter 007
Nailbomb-C in a Vertigo
Polymath in a Ravelle

With everything I've tried on the LPC, I would say you would be most happy with the Rebel Yell or Black Dog. The BD has more lows without taking away too much from the mids but I liked the extra clarity of the RY better. Didn't care for the Mule. Wasn't bad but it was more vintage sounding than the other two, which give you the best of both worlds IMO.

VHII is my favorite out of all of them. Aggressive highs that make make hi gainers sound so vicious. LOVES Marshall style amps.

Juggernaut has a unique attack and character that I've never heard or felt any pickup do before. Its straight up for dent players only if that's what you are looking for. Its fun for for 5 minutes then you get over it quick. Not a fan overall. Polymath is much more complete sounding for modern metal.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

Have you ever actually played a Duncan Designed pickup? They're less than half as good as a regular Duncan. Awful pickups.

One of the biggest upgrades you can make on any guitar is changing out the pickups. I agree that you don't need to spend $150 or more, but a lot (not all) of those cheaper pickups are really terrible.

I've had a few, and I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't have any hands on experience. Before I went on the amp collection journey I've been on lately, I did the "pickup journey" - I've had every major Dimarzio and Duncan bridge humbucker at one point or another in a guitar, along with a few others (BKP, Gibson Dirty Fingers, PJ Marx, etc) as well as the Duncan Designed HB103 and HB108's, and an assortment of 80s era OEM Dimarzios. I've since gotten rid of a lot of stuff that I didn't like, or by necessity because I've been downsizing the guitar collection.

I don't really believe in the hocus pocus stuff, if a pickup is the same physical dimensions, with the same strength/size/type of magnet, with the same number of coil windings with the same wire gauge with the same quality copper wire, and the same distance away from the same sized strings, it's going to sound identical to another regardless of what wood the guitar is made from, or how cheap the plastic is, or where in the world it was sourced from. Oh, and pole pieces, of course.

Duncan intentionally changed a few specs on the Designed series pickups to make them different from USA models, but they are not necessarily "worse." For example, the HB103 I mentioned, it's nearly to the SH-6 Distortion, except instead of a double sized ceramic magnet, it's just a regular one. So assuming the wire used is the same gauge, and measures roughly the same resistance, sticking a double sized ceramic magnet in there results in an identical pickup tone-wise - which I did, and I could barely tell any difference using the same guitar and same amp. Now, I don't know for a fact that wire used for the windings is the identical gauge, and I'm sure it's not the same quality (oxygen free etc etc) but there's no way anyone could realistically tell them apart in a blind test. Shoot, some of those pickups have their own following like the HB108's, which have the huge screw pole pieces like an invader, but a more standard sized ceramic magnet like a Custom (a real invader has 3), which is a combination Duncan doesn't normally offer unless you go custom shop.

I just think in terms of things that can be electronically measured. There's no secret magic in a wind of the same spec, regardless of what name is printed on it or where it came from. Like I said, I know I'm in the minority here. There's just a lot of intentionally misleading marketing fluff in my opinion. You also can't categorically say all of X name pickups are bad, while makers have their own style with builds etc, it's down to personal preference and the specific model/wind. If OP is looking for more output than a stock Gibson, and clarity usually means more upper mids, then there's definitely options in the BKP list that check those boxes.

Side note, it's a shame no one has created a "picking" machine, to hit a string with the same power every time. Then put every pickup the same distance under it, and measure the output of each one to a spectrum analyzer. You'd be able to tell side by side which pickups emphasize which frequencies and which have higher output (ohms =/= output level), and you could cut the manufacturer specific measuring and marketing out of the picture.

 

[iff]

Here's what I currently have;

Riff Raff in an SG
Rebel Yell in an LPC
VHII in a partscaster w/ FR
Juggernaut uninstalled now
Painkiller in a Schecter 007
Nailbomb-C in a Vertigo
Polymath in a Ravelle

With everything I've tried on the LPC, I would say you would be most happy with the Rebel Yell or Black Dog. The BD has more lows without taking away too much from the mids but I liked the extra clarity of the RY better. Didn't care for the Mule. Wasn't bad but it was more vintage sounding than the other two, which give you the best of both worlds IMO.

VHII is my favorite out of all of them. Aggressive highs that make make hi gainers sound so vicious. LOVES Marshall style amps.

Juggernaut has a unique attack and character that I've never heard or felt any pickup do before. Its straight up for dent players only if that's what you are looking for. Its fun for for 5 minutes then you get over it quick. Not a fan overall. Polymath is much more complete sounding for modern metal.

How does the ceramic Nailbomb compare?

 

[lespaul6]

I've had a few, and I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't have any hands on experience. Before I went on the amp collection journey I've been on lately, I did the "pickup journey" - I've had every major Dimarzio and Duncan bridge humbucker at one point or another in a guitar, along with a few others (BKP, Gibson Dirty Fingers, PJ Marx, etc) as well as the Duncan Designed HB103 and HB108's, and an assortment of 80s era OEM Dimarzios. I've since gotten rid of a lot of stuff that I didn't like, or by necessity because I've been downsizing the guitar collection.

I don't really believe in the hocus pocus stuff, if a pickup is the same physical dimensions, with the same strength/size/type of magnet, with the same number of coil windings with the same wire gauge with the same quality copper wire, and the same distance away from the same sized strings, it's going to sound identical to another regardless of what wood the guitar is made from, or how cheap the plastic is, or where in the world it was sourced from. Oh, and pole pieces, of course.

Duncan intentionally changed a few specs on the Designed series pickups to make them different from USA models, but they are not necessarily "worse." For example, the HB103 I mentioned, it's nearly to the SH-6 Distortion, except instead of a double sized ceramic magnet, it's just a regular one. So assuming the wire used is the same gauge, and measures roughly the same resistance, sticking a double sized ceramic magnet in there results in an identical pickup tone-wise - which I did, and I could barely tell any difference using the same guitar and same amp. Now, I don't know for a fact that wire used for the windings is the identical gauge, and I'm sure it's not the same quality (oxygen free etc etc) but there's no way anyone could realistically tell them apart in a blind test. Shoot, some of those pickups have their own following like the HB108's, which have the huge screw pole pieces like an invader, but a more standard sized ceramic magnet like a Custom (a real invader has 3), which is a combination Duncan doesn't normally offer unless you go custom shop.

I just think in terms of things that can be electronically measured. There's no secret magic in a wind of the same spec, regardless of what name is printed on it or where it came from. Like I said, I know I'm in the minority here. There's just a lot of intentionally misleading marketing fluff in my opinion. You also can't categorically say all of X name pickups are bad, while makers have their own style with builds etc, it's down to personal preference and the specific model/wind. If OP is looking for more output than a stock Gibson, and clarity usually means more upper mids, then there's definitely options in the BKP list that check those boxes.

Side note, it's a shame no one has created a "picking" machine, to hit a string with the same power every time. Then put every pickup the same distance under it, and measure the output of each one to a spectrum analyzer. You'd be able to tell side by side which pickups emphasize which frequencies and which have higher output (ohms =/= output level), and you could cut the manufacturer specific measuring and marketing out of the picture.

I think seymour uses a picking machine when prototyping and designing.. I think the latest premier guitar factory tour shows it.

 

[scottosan]

I don't really believe in the hocus pocus stuff, if a pickup is the same physical dimensions, with the same strength/size/type of magnet, with the same number of coil windings with the same wire gauge with the same quality copper wire, and the same distance away from the same sized strings, it's going to sound identical to another regardless of what wood the guitar is made from, or how cheap the plastic is, or where in the world it was sourced from. Oh, and pole pieces, of course.

I would somewhat agree from some big box (Mc)winders that use generic winding patters with no variations. But, with hand wound, there can be very big variations in both tone and feel, all else appearing to be identical with published specs. In the industry there is a term called TPL, Turns per layer. You can control the resonant peak and brightness by how many rotations of the bobbin it takes you to traverse the width of bobbin. So if I do 100 turns to go the entire width of the bobbin, then there is less space between each subsequent turn of wire compared to 50 turns per layer. The 100 will have less capacitance and a higher resonant peak AND higher q factor (magnitude of the resonant peak frequency). Many big box winders stay around 50-65 TPL for much of their catalog and simply swap a magnet and bam, new model. Thus, 2 vendors can have a similar sounding and spec wire.

You can add scatter to flatten the q factor giving the pickup a more bouncy feel. Modern sounding pickups typically have a higher TPL resulting in a tighter more immediate attack and less forgiveness.

Here is an example of of how 2 similar spec pickups can sound vastly different, and 2 different spec pickup can sound similar l nthis is accomplished through winding pattern and tension.

The Roxy and whiskey are same on paper yet sound vastly different. The Whiskey and W8 use different magnets and different wire and patterns, but have a similar feel, simply be compensating the winding to compensate for magnet difference. Listen with full range speakers. Roxy is mich tighter than the Whiskey. Only difference is the winding pattern.

 

[godgrinder]

I used to have a PRS SE Soapbar ii and I put a Bareknuckle pig p90 in the bridge and it absolutely crushed. Man I miss that rig

Pig90 is my favorite pickup ever, I even have it in some of my humbucker guitars.

 

[tallcoolone]

Had BDs, Mules and a Riff Raff. Moved on quickly from each.

 

[PurityS.L.G]

How does the ceramic Nailbomb compare?

To Alnico? It’s a tad tighter, especially on lower tunings. They sound very identical honestly. Not a world of difference.

In comparison to everything else I listed, the Polymath beats it. Much more clarity and even sounding. Nailbombs are just all out aggression and congested. Certainly not a bad thing if that’s what you’re looking for. They are a mean pickup

 

[Metalhex]

Pig90 is my favorite pickup ever, I even have it in some of my humbucker guitars.

Isn't it so good? It's been about 7 years since I had that guitar but I just remember it being pretty articulate while crushing

 

[ners]

Not what this thread is focused on but I've got the Piledriver and love it. It's a tele styled (aka single coil) pickup with the output of a humbucker and some extra low end.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I hated every Bare Knuckle pickup I owned or tried. I believe it was around 4-5 different one. lol

+1

I tried a Holy Diver when I was replacing the bridge pup in my SG. The Burstbucker 3 sounded thin in that guitar.
I went thru quite a few pups before the Motor City Detroiter did the trick.
The Holy Diver was dead, flat, boring in that guitar.
Buddy had Nailbombs in a Les Paul. Did not dig at all. Hot, but not great sounding.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

I think seymour uses a picking machine when prototyping and designing.. I think the latest premier guitar factory tour shows it.

Probably, and Dimarzio has some similar method too so they can give the output mv specs etc.
I mean it would be nice if an independent party would do it, and use the same testing method across all pickups from any maker. Since nothing is standardized, say you measured the mv of a Seymour Duncan JB, then compared that to a pickup on the Dimarzio website, you can't really learn anything from that because the test is too different.

But, with hand wound, there can be very big variations in both tone and feel, all else appearing to be identical with published specs. In the industry there is a term called TPL, Turns per layer. You can control the resonant peak and brightness by how many rotations of the bobbin it takes you to traverse the width of bobbin. So if I do 100 turns to go the entire width of the bobbin, then there is less space between each subsequent turn of wire compared to 50 turns per layer. The 100 will have less capacitance and a higher resonant peak AND higher q factor (magnitude of the resonant peak frequency). Many big box winders stay around 50-65 TPL for much of their catalog and simply swap a magnet and bam, new model. Thus, 2 vendors can have a similar sounding and spec wire.

Super interesting and useful info there, thanks for that. Most of my pickups are still from the "ancient" era of hand winding... almost all of my JB's, Customs, and the only Duncan Distortion I still own are all marked with the winder's sticker/name. I kind of forget sometimes that modern Duncans and such are not hand wound anymore except special models.

There's a lot of info about pickups that is intentionally obfuscated because it improves sales. How many of us have gone through 3 or 5 or 10 pickups just for fun, chasing some tonal quality? If you knew in advanced exactly how it was going to sound people would just buy the one pickup they want and that's it.

My response was mostly directed at someone who categorically said that Duncan Designed pickups were "less than half as good as a regular Duncan." To this person, maybe that's true, but that's not going to be true for everyone. In your example above, someone might prefer the more common 50-65 TPL vs 100 TPL (otherwise same spec), and so on. To take it even further, if there's a lot of variation in a hand-wound pickup, some might like one wind of the same pickup and not another (for example, people have reverence for an MJ wound SH-5 Custom, but what about L (Lidia Daniels) SH-5 Custom?)

Anyway, I'm way off topic now from what OP even asked for. From the limited description it sounds like they want something like the Rebel Yell, but that may not be enough output - hard to tell without just buying and installing one and hearing it yourself.

 

[scottosan]

Probably, and Dimarzio has some similar method too so they can give the output mv specs etc.
I mean it would be nice if an independent party would do it, and use the same testing method across all pickups from any maker. Since nothing is standardized, say you measured the mv of a Seymour Duncan JB, then compared that to a pickup on the Dimarzio website, you can't really learn anything from that because the test is too different.


Super interesting and useful info there, thanks for that. Most of my pickups are still from the "ancient" era of hand winding... almost all of my JB's, Customs, and the only Duncan Distortion I still own are all marked with the winder's sticker/name. I kind of forget sometimes that modern Duncans and such are not hand wound anymore except special models.

There's a lot of info about pickups that is intentionally obfuscated because it improves sales. How many of us have gone through 3 or 5 or 10 pickups just for fun, chasing some tonal quality? If you knew in advanced exactly how it was going to sound people would just buy the one pickup they want and that's it.

My response was mostly directed at someone who categorically said that Duncan Designed pickups were "less than half as good as a regular Duncan." To this person, maybe that's true, but that's not going to be true for everyone. In your example above, someone might prefer the more common 50-65 TPL vs 100 TPL (otherwise same spec), and so on. To take it even further, if there's a lot of variation in a hand-wound pickup, some might like one wind of the same pickup and not another (for example, people have reverence for an MJ wound SH-5 Custom, but what about L (Lidia Daniels) SH-5 Custom?)

Anyway, I'm way off topic now from what OP even asked for. From the limited description it sounds like they want something like the Rebel Yell, but that may not be enough output - hard to tell without just buying and installing one and hearing it yourself.

Those early Duncans are still machine wound. Even if you get a custom shop, MJ only hand winds single coils. While they are made by MJ, they are really just machine operated by MJ. The Duncan specs have changed over time though, so you are getting a different pickup than from the shop floor.

 

[lespaul6]

Those early Duncans are still machine wound. Even if you get a custom shop, MJ only hand winds single coils. While they are made by MJ, they are really just machine operated by MJ. The Duncan specs have changed over time though, so you are getting a different pickup than from the shop floor.

I think all the old gibson pickups were machine wound too?