Belated NAD - JVM 410

[jchrisf]

Nah it's the other way around. JVM205/210 has the OD2 Green/Orange/Red with the scooped out lower mids EQ values

Which is *fine,* for people who like OD2. But OD2 a bit further away from the traditional Marshall sound than OD1 is.
It's an easy change to make OD2 into OD1, 3 components:
1. Slope resistor on EQ for OD1 uses the 2203 value of 33k, OD2 uses a 47k resistor.
2. C31 change to 1n0
3. C32 change to 3n3
(Don't give me any credit for this, it's from the old JVM forums)

I'm just surprised Marshall hasn't done it in an "official" manner, shoot, and tack on another $100 to the price and call it the JVM "Vintage" or something. Kinda like how EVH does with the 5150 Stealth series amps, it's like 4 or 5 different values from the regular 5150 III and they charge $450 more for the Stealth lol. Ridiculous.

Yeah, if you read the manual it sounds like the overdrive channel on the 205 is the same as channel 3 OD1 on the 410 but everyone who has played them says what you are saying. Playing the Fractal version I actually prefer the OD2 Green and Orange but might have to try that mod to make it OD1 and see what it is like in person.

What I was told on TGP is:
Note that OD2 Orange and Red are in there, and Green is OD1 Green from the 410.

This could actually work for me. I'm really wanting to try this trick at 27:00 (queued up to it) on OD2 Red

 

[angelspade]

Yeah, if you read the manual it sounds like the overdrive channel on the 205 is the same as channel 3 OD1 on the 410 but everyone who has played them says what you are saying. Playing the Fractal version I actually prefer the OD2 Green and Orange but might have to try that mod to make it OD1 and see what it is like in person.

What I was told on TGP is:
Note that OD2 Orange and Red are in there, and Green is OD1 Green from the 410.

This could actually work for me. I'm really wanting to try this trick at 27:00 (queued up to it) on OD2 Red

This video (I posted it recently as well) has made me revisit the possibility of buying a Marshall 410H.

 

[jchrisf]

This video (I posted it recently as well) has made me revisit the possibility of buying a Marshall 410H.

Me too but I really just want a 50 watt.. might have to just get the 410 if I decide to do it.

 

[jabps]

Nah it's the other way around. JVM205/210 has the OD2 Green/Orange/Red with the scooped out lower mids EQ values

Which is *fine,* for people who like OD2. But OD2 a bit further away from the traditional Marshall sound than OD1 is.
It's an easy change to make OD2 into OD1, 3 components:
1. Slope resistor on EQ for OD1 uses the 2203 value of 33k, OD2 uses a 47k resistor.
2. C31 change to 1n0
3. C32 change to 3n3
(Don't give me any credit for this, it's from the old JVM forums)

I'm just surprised Marshall hasn't done it in an "official" manner, shoot, and tack on another $100 to the price and call it the JVM "Vintage" or something. Kinda like how EVH does with the 5150 Stealth series amps, it's like 4 or 5 different values from the regular 5150 III and they charge $450 more for the Stealth lol. Ridiculous.

Yep never understood it myself as I love 50 watters and wanted to get a 205 instead of another 410 as a back up when I used to gig constantly.

Santiago years ago also posted an eq graph from a Boss GE7 EQ that would mimic OD1 Orange from the 410 but I can't find it anywhere.

 

[jabps]

I'm done. If this breaks again, I'm not fixing it myself

I hope it doesn't go kaput as well again. Sounds great.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

Yeah, if you read the manual it sounds like the overdrive channel on the 205 is the same as channel 3 OD1 on the 410 but everyone who has played them says what you are saying. Playing the Fractal version I actually prefer the OD2 Green and Orange but might have to try that mod to make it OD1 and see what it is like in person.

What I was told on TGP is:
Note that OD2 Orange and Red are in there, and Green is OD1 Green from the 410.

This could actually work for me. I'm really wanting to try this trick at 27:00 (queued up to it) on OD2 Red

That's a great trick for OD2, might have to give that a try myself. Kinda hard to tell how good it sounds with the reverb and delay but it's certainly a convincing overall package the way he shows it. I suspect taking the resonance to max is not going to sound very plexi like in an actual room but I'll just have to find out

Whoever told you that on TGP is wrong though - Green/Orange/Red all use the same EQ values, so it's not possible to have Green OD1 and Orange OD2 with the same treble/middle/bass controls. That one little slope resistor being 47k on the 205/210 is a massive difference in sound, and it affects all 3 modes no matter what.

Sorry I know the technical stuff is boring, amp sounds good, and the 205/210 is a killer amp either way. But there's a reason why they intentionally gave it the modes it has, so they could sell 410's.

Another little detail is that the combined clean/crunch channel on the 205/210 makes some sacrifices too. All three modes of the 205/210 clean channel use a post-gain stage EQ with the 33k slope resistor, just like the 410's Crunch and OD1 channels. The real clean channel of the 410 uses a pre-EQ just after the input gain stage with very different values (like a Fender, or a 6100). The "trickery" is that on the 2-channel JVM's, the clean channel has a little "fixed" Pre-EQ that engages on the clean green mode only. It's basically a regular T/M/B EQ but instead of pots/knobs, it has resistors with specific values. It's actually pretty ingenious, but it means you don't get the same kind of control as you would on the 410 (obviously).

Hmm, maybe I should do a video on this one to clear the air a bit, might be fun.

 

[jabps]

Hey guys, I posted this before in the thread but will post again - great interview HERE with Santiago about the JVM and other Marshall related stuff from when he worked at Marshall as one of the lead designers. Worth the thread read as he clears some things up regarding the JVM.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

Ah nice to have it confirmed by the man who actually designed it. I'm just working from the schematic here, but on that thread Santiago says:

They are pretty much the same amp. The only difference is the JVM2 clean green which is designed specifically for that amp as the JVM4 has a different clean channel that can't be easily integrated in the 2-channel version. Other than that, I think JVM2 CH1 orange and red are JVM4 CH2 orange and red, JVM2 OD channel is JVM OD2. The main pcb is actually the same in all the amps with different firmware and number of tubes of course.

Exactly what I was talking about in my post above. Sweet.

He also says:

The starting point I was given to "take a TSL and add a 4th channel with more gain", so pretty much I took a TSL, put it on a shelf as reference and got a JCM800 2203 as starting point.

That rings true with what I said earlier about why I sold my JVM the first time actually, since it sounded identical to my TSL on OD1. Glad I wasn't going crazy then either.

Schematics never lie... (except sometimes )

 

[angelspade]

That's a great trick for OD2, might have to give that a try myself. Kinda hard to tell how good it sounds with the reverb and delay but it's certainly a convincing overall package the way he shows it. I suspect taking the resonance to max is not going to sound very plexi like in an actual room but I'll just have to find out

Whoever told you that on TGP is wrong though - Green/Orange/Red all use the same EQ values, so it's not possible to have Green OD1 and Orange OD2 with the same treble/middle/bass controls. That one little slope resistor being 47k on the 205/210 is a massive difference in sound, and it affects all 3 modes no matter what.

Sorry I know the technical stuff is boring, amp sounds good, and the 205/210 is a killer amp either way. But there's a reason why they intentionally gave it the modes it has, so they could sell 410's.

Another little detail is that the combined clean/crunch channel on the 205/210 makes some sacrifices too. All three modes of the 205/210 clean channel use a post-gain stage EQ with the 33k slope resistor, just like the 410's Crunch and OD1 channels. The real clean channel of the 410 uses a pre-EQ just after the input gain stage with very different values (like a Fender, or a 6100). The "trickery" is that on the 2-channel JVM's, the clean channel has a little "fixed" Pre-EQ that engages on the clean green mode only. It's basically a regular T/M/B EQ but instead of pots/knobs, it has resistors with specific values. It's actually pretty ingenious, but it means you don't get the same kind of control as you would on the 410 (obviously).

Hmm, maybe I should do a video on this one to clear the air a bit, might be fun.

I would definitely watch that video...and thank you for the detailed explanations, appreciated.

 

[angelspade]

That's a great trick for OD2, might have to give that a try myself. Kinda hard to tell how good it sounds with the reverb and delay but it's certainly a convincing overall package the way he shows it. I suspect taking the resonance to max is not going to sound very plexi like in an actual room but I'll just have to find out

In regards to the OD2 trick at the conclusion of this video...I do not think it accurately mimics the tone and response of a Plexi, but I do think it's a pretty cool sound.

 

[angelspade]

Hey guys, I posted this before in the thread but will post again - great interview HERE with Santiago about the JVM and other Marshall related stuff from when he worked at Marshall as one of the lead designers. Worth the thread read as he clears some things up regarding the JVM.

Very cool...Digging in Now.

 

[jchrisf]

Very cool...Digging in Now.

TLDR: Please post your findings LOL

 

[jchrisf]

That's a great trick for OD2, might have to give that a try myself. Kinda hard to tell how good it sounds with the reverb and delay but it's certainly a convincing overall package the way he shows it. I suspect taking the resonance to max is not going to sound very plexi like in an actual room but I'll just have to find out

Whoever told you that on TGP is wrong though - Green/Orange/Red all use the same EQ values, so it's not possible to have Green OD1 and Orange OD2 with the same treble/middle/bass controls. That one little slope resistor being 47k on the 205/210 is a massive difference in sound, and it affects all 3 modes no matter what.

Sorry I know the technical stuff is boring, amp sounds good, and the 205/210 is a killer amp either way. But there's a reason why they intentionally gave it the modes it has, so they could sell 410's.

Another little detail is that the combined clean/crunch channel on the 205/210 makes some sacrifices too. All three modes of the 205/210 clean channel use a post-gain stage EQ with the 33k slope resistor, just like the 410's Crunch and OD1 channels. The real clean channel of the 410 uses a pre-EQ just after the input gain stage with very different values (like a Fender, or a 6100). The "trickery" is that on the 2-channel JVM's, the clean channel has a little "fixed" Pre-EQ that engages on the clean green mode only. It's basically a regular T/M/B EQ but instead of pots/knobs, it has resistors with specific values. It's actually pretty ingenious, but it means you don't get the same kind of control as you would on the 410 (obviously).

Hmm, maybe I should do a video on this one to clear the air a bit, might be fun.

Thanks for the explanation! On my FM3, I actually prefer the OD2 channel. I didn't like the Red of the OD1 or OD2 but now that I know this trick I'm sure I would love the Red on the 205 Overdrive channel. I'm also more interested in the Orange and Red Crunch which is on the 205. It's a bummer that the clean mode on the 205 doesn't have a working volume control.

If I was buying new I'd just get the 410 because it is only $200 more than the 205... but I really would prefer a 50 watt.

It's also cool to know that an easy mod could switch it to OD1 just to try.

Thanks also for posting Santiago's info.

I'd love to see your video if you make it.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

I can't believe the price difference is so close - I remember like 10 years ago the JVM410 was almost $1000 more than the JVM210. I think I remember seeing the JVM410 being $2999 just last year?
I don't expect there will be many JVM2's on the used market with the prices so close now... maybe they'll lower the price on them to somewhere in between (as of current writing the DSL100 is $829, JVM210 $1799, and JVM410 $1899 at sweetwater)

 

[jabps]

I can't believe the price difference is so close - I remember like 10 years ago the JVM410 was almost $1000 more than the JVM210. I think I remember seeing the JVM410 being $2999 just last year?
I don't expect there will be many JVM2's on the used market with the prices so close now... maybe they'll lower the price on them to somewhere in between (as of current writing the DSL100 is $829, JVM210 $1799, and JVM410 $1899 at sweetwater)

The JVM 410's been my main amp pretty much since it was introduced. At the time I was shooting out a Sig X and the JVM and ultimately went with the JVM.

Personally I think it's time to update the amp. Remove the Reverb and put in the Noise Gates from the Satch model. Further just put in a serial loop from the Satch model as well. Granted I've never had issue with the loop but some do. Also I'd put a choke in there just to satisfy those that really want it. I've had a modded 410 with the choke, NFB etc... and for me, I couldn't tell the difference but alot of people hang their hat on that.

Basically take what they added with the Satch model except the revoicing of the channels which I did not like at all, update the amp with some IR's and viola, updated JVM.

 

[angelspade]

The JVM 410's been my main amp pretty much since it was introduced. At the time I was shooting out a Sig X and the JVM and ultimately went with the JVM.

Personally I think it's time to update the amp. Remove the Reverb and put in the Noise Gates from the Satch model. Further just put in a serial loop from the Satch model as well. Granted I've never had issue with the loop but some do. Also I'd put a choke in there just to satisfy those that really want it. I've had a modded 410 with the choke, NFB etc... and for me, I couldn't tell the difference but alot of people hang their hat on that.

Basically take what they added with the Satch model except the revoicing of the channels which I did not like at all, update the amp with some IR's and viola, updated JVM.

Agree with this all...I also would like to see some cosmetic options like a limited silver Jubilee and the black out steal edition they once did.