Best NOS preamp for PI

[Racerxrated]

In my experience, the best for punch/dynamics is the Tungsram. Ei/Telefunkens are good too, as is the Sovtek LPS but the Tungsram is my winner. Honorable mention goes to the Phillips JAN 12AT7...great for punch/dynamics but is a cleaner sounding tube. The Dirt lessens a little with it.

 

[Meanjoegreene]

I know jack about this stuff but I thought LPS could potentially be dangerous for Marshall style amps in the PI

I have no idea why or if it’s even true but it’s always the most popular tube mentioned for PI when the topic comes up.

 

[Bash_Man]

Sovtek LPS in the PI

I second that one.. I've tried a bunch of difference tubes in my amp's PI socket (Splawn Nitro) and the Sovtek LPS always seemed to let the amp breath easier. its more open and responds to tonal controls changes better. At least that's to my ears

 

[RedB4Black]

I know jack about this stuff but I thought LPS could potentially be dangerous for Marshall style amps in the PI

I have no idea why or if it’s even true but it’s always the most popular tube mentioned for PI when the topic comes up.

the issue is if you put them in a cathode follower position

 

[midnightlaundry]

I've been poking thru eBay for old tubes and shit is outta control price wise..
But old long plates just sound better.. It's a shame they don't make them like they used to..

 

[Krull]

NOS prices aren't for me. I picked up a few at the beginning of the pandemic and not worth it to me. Sovtek LPS in the PI.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Tungsram / EI Yugo

 

[ericb]

Tungsram / EI Yugo

You're a connoisseur. If you can ever find the Yugoslavian 12ax7's from the 1980's before they were stamped "EI" they're my favorite ever and they just said Made in Yugoslavia on them. . They then started having the EI White Circle and they were nowhere near as rich, ballsy and toneful, and although they sounded good, many were microphonic. . I used to buy loads of the old ones for years after I discovered them, and then the prices skyrocketed. Ramlabs was the last place I found them many years back. . Actually I just checked and they're the "Tube Audio Store" now and selling Tungsrams for 90.00 and the lo-noise old Yugo's for 105.00 . . I got all my Tungsrams for about 10.00 each and the Yugo's for 10-20.00. I think the last time I bought the lo-noise Yugo's they were about 35.00 each. Sometimes it pays to be a packrat! RFT preamp tubes also are great, and I never paid more than 20.00 for an RFT. . All too expensive these days, but so are amps, and so are vehicles. I've rambled on , but again I've never had any issue with any PI tube, but for tone tubes, these are my favorites. As for the JAN Phillips WA's(Sylvanias) I have some and they're fine and durable and sound nice, but these others blow them away in tone positions.

Rock on all

Eric

 

[RedPlated]

I use Sovtek LPS in PI.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

You're a connoisseur. If you can ever find the Yugoslavian 12ax7's from the 1980's before they were stamped "EI" they're my favorite ever and they just said Made in Yugoslavia on them. . They then started having the EI White Circle and they were nowhere near as rich, ballsy and toneful, and although they sounded good, many were microphonic. . I used to buy loads of the old ones for years after I discovered them, and then the prices skyrocketed. Ramlabs was the last place I found them many years back. . Actually I just checked and they're the "Tube Audio Store" now and selling Tungsrams for 90.00 and the lo-noise old Yugo's for 105.00 . . I got all my Tungsrams for about 10.00 each and the Yugo's for 10-20.00. I think the last time I bought the lo-noise Yugo's they were about 35.00 each. Sometimes it pays to be a packrat! RFT preamp tubes also are great, and I never paid more than 20.00 for an RFT. . All too expensive these days, but so are amps, and so are vehicles. I've rambled on , but again I've never had any issue with any PI tube, but for tone tubes, these are my favorites. As for the JAN Phillips WA's(Sylvanias) I have some and they're fine and durable and sound nice, but these others blow them away in tone positions.

Rock on all

Eric

Yes Eric,
The older ‘made in Yugoslavia‘ ones are the bomb
I actually prefer these in the PI over Telefunken long smooth plates. They are a touch smoother and have more / better ‘solid bass’…
It’s tough finding anything NOS that’s good these days. Most of it’s just regurgitated microphonic stuff that people are moving because they don’t want it themselves… Unless you know someone and they have a tube tester that test for shorts, microphonics, mutual conductance etc.

 

[ericb]

Yes Eric,
The older ‘made in Yugoslavia‘ ones are the bomb
I actually prefer these in the PI over Telefunken long smooth plates. They have more and better ‘solid bass’…
It’s tough finding anything NOS that’s good these days. Most of it’s just regurgitated microphonic stuff that people are moving because they don’t want it themselves… Unless you know someone and they have a tube tester that test for shorts, microphonics, mutual conductance etc.

Maybe I need to experiment more with the Phase Inverter tubes in my amps before spouted my mouth off? Ha. . I really havent ever noticed them being very vital for tone, and I thought I gave up my tube neurosis years. I'll have to check. I only have the Orange Tube Tester and it's worked totally fine for me, but the final say for me always is 'my ears'!

p.s. I agree about the hard finding good NOS stuff for decent prices these days, and I'll never need any more tubes anyway, as I bought them all 20-30 years ago. I was just thinking that the places selling them now for 100.00 each are still selling the finite batches that I bought back then, so they have to be the 'bottom of the barrel ' ones. . I mean the place I referenced supplied MANLEY Labs tube studio gear for years also. . oh well, tubes are fun, but they make you crazy

Eric

 

[braintheory]

You're a connoisseur. If you can ever find the Yugoslavian 12ax7's from the 1980's before they were stamped "EI" they're my favorite ever and they just said Made in Yugoslavia on them. . They then started having the EI White Circle and they were nowhere near as rich, ballsy and toneful, and although they sounded good, many were microphonic. . I used to buy loads of the old ones for years after I discovered them, and then the prices skyrocketed. Ramlabs was the last place I found them many years back. . Actually I just checked and they're the "Tube Audio Store" now and selling Tungsrams for 90.00 and the lo-noise old Yugo's for 105.00 . . I got all my Tungsrams for about 10.00 each and the Yugo's for 10-20.00. I think the last time I bought the lo-noise Yugo's they were about 35.00 each. Sometimes it pays to be a packrat! RFT preamp tubes also are great, and I never paid more than 20.00 for an RFT. . All too expensive these days, but so are amps, and so are vehicles. I've rambled on , but again I've never had any issue with any PI tube, but for tone tubes, these are my favorites. As for the JAN Phillips WA's(Sylvanias) I have some and they're fine and durable and sound nice, but these others blow them away in tone positions.

Rock on all

Eric

My experience has been different with those tubes. I liked the Yugo's I've got, but when compared in my various amps found my ribbed plate Telefunken's, Siemens, Mullard Blackburn and Bugle Boy's to be better. The Tungsram's were my go-to's for punch and openness, but found the Blackburn Mullard's to outdo them. JAN Philips ECG's have been my favorite sounding american pre-tubes (especially great in my SLO and Recto's), but not always well suited in more European type amps. The Sylvania's I find to sound quite different than my Philips, a lot thinner and brighter sounding, but can be nice in some amps. I guess with all these things it really can be amp dependent, but I've got 27 amps that are all very different from each other and those have been my findings. I find for European pre's Mullard, Siemens, Telefunken, Bugle Boy and Valvo all have their place (I don't use the others anymore that I've got) and for American: Philips, GE, RCA, Tung-Sol and sometimes Sylvania

 

[ericb]

My experience has been different with those tubes. I liked the Yugo's I've got, but when compared in my various amps found my ribbed plate Telefunken's, Siemens, Mullard Blackburn and Bugle Boy's to be better. The Tungsram's were my go-to's for punch and openness, but found the Blackburn Mullard's to outdo them. JAN Philips ECG's have been my favorite sounding american pre-tubes (especially great in my SLO and Recto's), but not always well suited in more European type amps. The Sylvania's I find to sound quite different than my Philips, a lot thinner and brighter sounding, but can be nice in some amps. I guess with all these things it really can be amp dependent, but I've got 27 amps that are all very different from each other and those have been my findings. I find for European pre's Mullard, Siemens, Telefunken, Bugle Boy and Valvo all have their place (I don't use the others anymore that I've got) and for American: Philips, GE, RCA, Tung-Sol and sometimes Sylvania

NOt a problem! We have not sat in the same room, with the same amps, dialed in the same, played at the same volumes, with the same guitars, playing the same styles. All that factors in, and I KNOW my ears are nowhere the same today as they were 10, 20 , 30 , or 40 years ago! With that said, my RCA 7025's have been far better than any of my Philips or other Sylvanias tonewise for mellow stuff (that's only with the sample I've had) I've had some great Bugle Boys, Amperex (German or Dutch I believe, as they got relabled all the time) . . I've only had 1 Mullard preamp tube and never was able to use the good ones, and I've never had any Siemens preamp tubes, although I have lots of Siemens el34's. (Which I love) . . I have a bunch of Telefunkens and to me the Yugo's are so much better sounding it's not close. The Telefunkens I have are clear as can be but just not the harmonically richness of old Yugo's in any amp I've used them in. I did use them in studio gear though. Again, I'm not talking about the EI's that were available everywhere in the 90's, my great ones were all the 80's. Anyway, tubes are fun, but I'm done with it, as it was a long fun phase I went thru but gets too neurotic. Now I pretty much know what I love and what'll work in each amp, and the same for my speakers , where I went thru the same neurosis! I've been a gearhead too long and spent way too much forum time on the newsgroups, Weber, HC, TGP,here, etc ... I would encourage everyone though to try tubes other than JJ's and Chinese and see what they hear for themselves with their own amps, and then decide if they want go down that rabbithole or not : ) Today the rabbithole is WAY more expensive than when I went thru it

p.s. I've never been lucky enough to try great Mullard Preamp tubes OR Power TUbes, other than the one time I had Mullards they were EL84's and sounded way better than all my other EL84's I tried in a Tophat Club Royale (a long time ago) and I sold the tubes in the amp like a f'in dummy. .The next guy sold the amp and kept the tubes

Eric

 

[Nigel]

Mullard long plate f91/f92 17mm 12AX7's are my fave just about everywhere in older circuits. Gotta have them in the PI.

Ei's tend to go microphonic and they're great in the PI as well. Sylvania backplate long plates rule too, and talk about a HIGH CURRENT VALVE HORY SHET 2,400gm and what not.

My little Orange Brent Hinds doesn't like much of anything but the Chinese it came with.

One cool way to get Mullard toanz on the cheap is the CV4024/12AT7 for the Pi. That was my first exposure to the refined tweed jacket, stiff upper lip British glory, refinement and class that is genuine Mullard tone.

 

[braintheory]

NOt a problem! We have not sat in the same room, with the same amps, dialed in the same, played at the same volumes, with the same guitars, playing the same styles. All that factors in, and I KNOW my ears are nowhere the same today as they were 10, 20 , 30 , or 40 years ago! With that said, my RCA 7025's have been far better than any of my Philips or other Sylvanias tonewise for mellow stuff (that's only with the sample I've had) I've had some great Bugle Boys, Amperex (German or Dutch I believe, as they got relabled all the time) . . I've only had 1 Mullard preamp tube and never was able to use the good ones, and I've never had any Siemens preamp tubes, although I have lots of Siemens el34's. (Which I love) . . I have a bunch of Telefunkens and to me the Yugo's are so much better sounding it's not close. The Telefunkens I have are clear as can be but just not the harmonically richness of old Yugo's in any amp I've used them in. I did use them in studio gear though. Again, I'm not talking about the EI's that were available everywhere in the 90's, my great ones were all the 80's. Anyway, tubes are fun, but I'm done with it, as it was a long fun phase I went thru but gets too neurotic. Now I pretty much know what I love and what'll work in each amp, and the same for my speakers , where I went thru the same neurosis! I've been a gearhead too long and spent way too much forum time on the newsgroups, Weber, HC, TGP,here, etc ... I would encourage everyone though to try tubes other than JJ's and Chinese and see what they hear for themselves with their own amps, and then decide if they want go down that rabbithole or not : ) Today the rabbithole is WAY more expensive than when I went thru it

p.s. I've never been lucky enough to try great Mullard Preamp tubes OR Power TUbes, other than the one time I had Mullards they were EL84's and sounded way better than all my other EL84's I tried in a Tophat Club Royale (a long time ago) and I sold the tubes in the amp like a f'in dummy. .The next guy sold the amp and kept the tubes

Eric

I'm younger than all the guys I know hear, so possible that I also am hearing things a little differently. RCA's are very good pre's. For mellow stuff I'd probably agree with them being better, but for high gain and most clean stuff would choose a good Philips at least 9/10 times. The best sounding Philips I have are the ones with the blue letters. There's a reason those Philips are the most expensive American tubes. IMO they are superb. In my Recto's and SLO in particular they were the clear favorites of all my stuff. Sylvania's I don't use often, but can be very good in the right amp and they're my faves for 12BZ7's

Siemens pre-tubes are strangely overlooked and not talked about much, but are excellent. I'm more impressed with their pre than power tubes. For Telefunkens it depends which ones you had. The smooth plate ones I wasn't crazy about, but the ribbed plate ones sound great and are more harmonically rich than Yugo's and really all the European pre tubes I've had, but only the ribbed versions

Overall, Mullard are still my overall favorites and most well rounded for my taste for European pre-tubes and EL34's (I've got just XF4's currently). The Yugo's and Tungsram's are very good, but to me the Mullard's make them obsolete. Their EL84's are great too, but the Valvo's are usually for me the clear winner there for EL84's and Telefunken's also great for 84's, but Mullard have their place too for that and have been keepers for me. These were tested in my 1963 AC30 TopBoost Copperpanel and Xits Piper 30 (just EL84's I meant, not those pre tubes)

 

[ericb]

I'm younger than all the guys I know hear, so possible that I also am hearing things a little differently. RCA's are very good pre's. For mellow stuff I'd probably agree with them being better, but for high gain and most clean stuff would choose a good Philips at least 9/10 times. The best sounding Philips I have are the ones with the blue letters. There's a reason those Philips are the most expensive American tubes. IMO they are superb. In my Recto's and SLO in particular they were the clear favorites of all my stuff. Sylvania's I don't use often, but can be very good in the right amp and they're my faves for 12BZ7's

Siemens pre-tubes are strangely overlooked and not talked about much, but are excellent. I'm more impressed with their pre than power tubes. For Telefunkens it depends which ones you had. The smooth plate ones I wasn't crazy about, but the ribbed plate ones sound great and are more harmonically rich than Yugo's and really all the European pre tubes I've had, but only the ribbed versions

Overall, Mullard are still my overall favorites and most well rounded for my taste for European pre-tubes and EL34's (I've got just XF4's currently). The Yugo's and Tungsram's are very good, but to me the Mullard's make them obsolete. Their EL84's are great too, but the Valvo's are usually for me the clear winner there for EL84's and Telefunken's also great for 84's, but Mullard have their place too for that and have been keepers for me. These were tested in my 1963 AC30 TopBoost Copperpanel and Xits Piper 30 (just EL84's I meant, not those pre tubes)

THanks for posting your experience. . I'm going to dig out my Jan Phillips as I believe they also have the blue lettering. If they're that great and I missed it years ago when I got them, that'll be great Otherwise I'll sell them to someone else who'll appreciate them, as I think I have 5-6 of them. . I'll post a picture when I can find them and if you'd be so kind to let me know if they're the ones you're talking about that'd be cool

Eric

 

[braintheory]

THanks for posting your experience. . I'm going to dig out my Jan Phillips as I believe they also have the blue lettering. If they're that great and I missed it years ago when I got them, that'll be great Otherwise I'll sell them to someone else who'll appreciate them, as I think I have 5-6 of them. . I'll post a picture when I can find them and if you'd be so kind to let me know if they're the ones you're talking about that'd be cool

Eric

Yeah no problem I'll let you know. A lot of guys on here will know the technical details that I wouldn't. My others with yellow or green lettering still sound great and very similar, just think the blue ones sound a little better. Of course, there are some amps where those tubes wouldn't be my first choice, but not sure which amps you've tried them in

I made lists/keep tracks and they shined most in my ‘89 SLO and Rev D Dual Rectifier, also good in my ‘79 JMP2203, Naylor, ‘64 Vibroverb, CCV, Wizard MTL and Schroeder DB. For most of my other amps would prefer other pre tubes