BILL LAWRENCE USA L500XL VS WILDE USA L500XL Differences (Dimebag-Nuno humbucker)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben Waylin
  • Start date Start date
I did this swap to my mahogany N4 a few weeks ago. The Wilde L500XL is much better IMO and I’m glad I made the switch. I have an older N4 that the previous owner swapped for the Wilde as well.
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Here’s another vid
 
PLX said:
The Bill & Becky sounds much better.
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Definitely, I feel it retains all the characteristics of the BL that are good and just fattens it up while rolling off a bit of the shrill high end.

My pickup arrived the day of a gig and I rushed to have it swapped for the show. I hadn’t used the N4 yet so I’m glad I got it done.
 
The BL USA brand is Bill’s old partner whom he had a falling out with. if I’m correct he tried screwing Bill over and keeping the BL name himself, thus two BL’s. Screw that guy. Buy from Bill and Becky, it’s still owned by his family and his wife and daughter still wind and run it. or as Sam said, score some vintage ones for the real real deal.
 
PLX said:
The Bill & Becky sounds much better.
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Fully agree......... :2thumbsup:after hearing the Euge video the Wilde L500XL has more girthy heft and punch and more clarity on the ascending and descending muted runs without the piercing high end that I've heard in the BLUSA's that I had in my Dime guitars. I still have a Wilde L500 and L500XL to try out as well as the Wes Hauch blade pickup. The BLUSA did a great Dime but absolutely nothing else....YMMV. I even flipped the BLUSA L500XL like Dime and it didn't seem much thicker to my ears but I flipped it nonetheless for posterity's sake.:LOL:

FWIW... I had an extra new BLUSA and I gave it away with my Dean Dime guitar when I sold it with absolutely no desire to hear another BLUSA L500XL........................:p:yes:

Thanks for the Count video!
 
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I think Bill Lawrence maintained that Nuno used the original Bill Lawrence L500 and what became the L500XL and by many accounts Dime said in interviews the he used the BLUSA model purchased from Stewart Macdonalds guitar supply which was the BLUSA model at that time in the late 80's and 90's.

That probably accounts for the differences in Nuno to Dime's tones........similar but different to my ears. Alot of people seem to like the Seymour Duncan Dimebucker over the BLUSA's as well.
 
Imo a much simpler solution to this BL quest is to just forget these other versions and just get the real deal vintage version from the ‘80’s or earlier for not a ton more $ (for now at least…)

For similar prices you can get the most popular on forums, current made, “boutique” pickups or get a great vintage pickup (not just BL’s I’m talking about) that makes the former category of pickups come off sterile/bland. To me it’s an obvious choice
 
Nuno has recounted in several interviews that he used the Bill & Becky L500XL.

Bill had gone out of business when Nuno started up his signature guitar with Washburn. Nuno insisted they use the Bill & Becky L500XL in the bridge position.

Washburn told him they couldn't because that company "Wilde Pickups" had gone out of business.

Nuno refused to back down. Washburn contacted Wilde Pickups and placed such a large order, they re-opened their doors and started making pickups again.

Bill has passed, so if you call, you wind up talking to Becky (at least I did), and she flat-out will not tell you the DC resistance of their pickups. They only want to tell you the inductance.
:roll:


So here it is:

L-500 C 4.5 kΩ 3.2 Henries
L-500 R 7.1 kΩ 4.8 Henries
L-500 L 11.8 kΩ 6.9 Henries
L-500XL 13.3 kΩ 9.6 Henries

Now, to muddy the waters even further.. The Bill & Becky L-500L actually just got renamed the L-500XL sometime in late 1981 :

Image



The two companies making the same named pickups are:

OBL Pickups / Bill Lawrence USA (after 1984) CEO: Jzchak 'EZ' Wajcman

Bill Lawrence / Bill & Becky / Wilde Pickups / Keystone Pickups CEO: Willi Lorenz Stich (after Bill's death in 2013, Becky took over operations)


In an effort to help clear up the confusion between "Bill Lawrence" pickups and the new SH-13 Dimebucker by Seymour Duncan, Mr. Wajcman begins using the "Bill Lawrence U.S.A." stamp on the tops of his pickups sometime around 2002.
 
PLX said:
L-500XL 13.3 kΩ 9.6 H
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PLX said:
Nuno has recounted in several interviews that he used the Bill & Becky L500XL.

Bill had gone out of business when Nuno started up his signature guitar with Washburn. Nuno insisted they use the Bill & Becky L500XL in the bridge position.

Washburn told him they couldn't because that company "Wilde Pickups" had gone out of business.

Nuno refused to back down. Washburn contacted Wilde Pickups and placed such a large order, they re-opened their doors and started making pickups again.

Bill has passed, so if you call, you wind up talking to Becky (at least I did), and she flat-out will not tell you the DC resistance of their pickups. They only want to tell you the inductance.
:roll:


So here it is:

L-500 C 4.5 kΩ 3.2 Henries
L-500 R 7.1 kΩ 4.8 Henries
L-500 L 11.8 kΩ 6.9 Henries
L-500XL 13.3 kΩ 9.6 Henries

Now, to muddy the waters even further.. The Bill & Becky L-500L actually just got renamed the L-500XL sometime in late 1981 :

Image



The two companies making the same named pickups are:

OBL Pickups / Bill Lawrence USA (after 1984) CEO: Jzchak 'EZ' Wajcman

Bill Lawrence / Bill & Becky / Wilde Pickups / Keystone Pickups CEO: Willi Lorenz Stich (after Bill's death in 2013, Becky took over operations)


In an effort to help clear up the confusion between "Bill Lawrence" pickups and the new SH-13 Dimebucker by Seymour Duncan, Mr. Wajcman begins using the "Bill Lawrence U.S.A." stamp on the tops of his pickups sometime around 2002.
Click to expand...
All good info. The good news is if we just go for BL's when they were at their best we don't really need to know as much lol (that's what I've done). I heard Bill himself also didn't like talking about DC in his pickups (sometimes got irritated when asked), so maybe she's just keeping up with his way. I will say a decent amount of my vintage BL's don't sound exactly how you might expect them too if you just go by DC rating
 
PLX said:
Nuno has recounted in several interviews that he used the Bill & Becky L500XL.

Bill had gone out of business when Nuno started up his signature guitar with Washburn. Nuno insisted they use the Bill & Becky L500XL in the bridge position.

Washburn told him they couldn't because that company "Wilde Pickups" had gone out of business.

Nuno refused to back down. Washburn contacted Wilde Pickups and placed such a large order, they re-opened their doors and started making pickups again.

Bill has passed, so if you call, you wind up talking to Becky (at least I did), and she flat-out will not tell you the DC resistance of their pickups. They only want to tell you the inductance.
:roll:


So here it is:

L-500 C 4.5 kΩ 3.2 Henries
L-500 R 7.1 kΩ 4.8 Henries
L-500 L 11.8 kΩ 6.9 Henries
L-500XL 13.3 kΩ 9.6 Henries

Now, to muddy the waters even further.. The Bill & Becky L-500L actually just got renamed the L-500XL sometime in late 1981 :

Image



The two companies making the same named pickups are:

OBL Pickups / Bill Lawrence USA (after 1984) CEO: Jzchak 'EZ' Wajcman

Bill Lawrence / Bill & Becky / Wilde Pickups / Keystone Pickups CEO: Willi Lorenz Stich (after Bill's death in 2013, Becky took over operations)


In an effort to help clear up the confusion between "Bill Lawrence" pickups and the new SH-13 Dimebucker by Seymour Duncan, Mr. Wajcman begins using the "Bill Lawrence U.S.A." stamp on the tops of his pickups sometime around 2002.
Click to expand...
Any info on the ones made for Gibson prior to 1979?
 
PLX said:
Like to hear your results !
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I got my Bill & Becky Wilde L500XL today and I’ve installed it in my strat, replacing the BL USA L500XL. I didnt do any clips because I think they’re not really that useful for comparing picukps, most of the difference between pickups is only apparent to the player I think, in how the guitar feels. The Euge Valovirta video above is good for comparing the BLUSA vs B&B in his nuno sig, good video to check out if you want clips.

I’ve been enjoying the BLUSA in the strat, but does require some additional EQ work in the amp, boosting more mids and cutting more highs/treble than with other pickups. right into an amp set up for a 'normal' pickup, and it sounds harsh and overly bright/piercing. Cleans are real nice though, I usually dont like bridge humbucker cleans and I think they sound like honk-city.

I do like the BLUSA but it is very bright and piercing in the treble, almost like a single coil in the high end. It is quite stiff and tight feeling also, hard to get a saturated sound from, even piling on the gain doesnt quite do it. Also, too close to the strings and it can get kind of flubby sounding.

the B&B L500XL is quite a bit hotter (all set to the same distances from the strings), the treble is quite a bit smoother yet still quite bright. I thought it sounded a bit funny at first but then just re-dialing my amp to how I usually have it set (rather than how i set it for the BL USA) and it suddenly just sounded 'right'. Fantastic level of saturation, very clear. Maybe hotter than the Lundgren M7 in my main guitar, as it clips my buffers a lot so I had to turn them off.

The guitar is an american deluxe ash strat from about 2006, set up with 250k volume 250k tone (usually i like 500k volume and no tone on humbucker bridge pickups). Sounds very good, The BLUSA with that setup was still very bright and spikey in the highs, and a little hard to work with, but sounds 'just right' with the B&B. I would like to try putting the tone knob on a switch so i could remove it from the circuit but I dont really feel like pulling the strat pickguard again right now, especially as it sounds really good as-is. Bill Lawrence recommended 500k pots as a minimum for the L500XL and preferred 1M. While 250k were OK for the L500L and lower output models.

Fit and finish - not amazing. I like the brass tapped inserts in the pickup tabs, but the tabs are still plastic like the BL USA (chrome plated though) and one was cracked where the insert went in (I put a dab of superglue on to prevent it from breaking off). An improvement over the BLUSA which is just machine screws into tapped plastic, which i have had strip out randomly when in a guitar before which is pretty annoying.

The tops of the coils don’t sit completely flat either, and on one side have a slight ‘curl’ you may be able to see in the picture. Most other pickups I have, the coils sit perfectly flush with one another, this one is more like some of my pickups where I’ve done mag-swaps and disturbed the coils a bit, so they are just marginally askew from one another.

Not sure if they are potted as you can clearly see the tape on the sides of the coils through the gap on top, and the windings through the tape. Doesn't howl or feed back though and I play loud and dont use a gate.

Packaging - was just the pickup in some bubblewrap in a padded envelope. I mean at the end of the day the pickup, not the packaging, is the important part, and these do still sell significantly cheaper than the usual SD, Dimarzio, etc.

Measurements

Bill & Becky L500XL
series 15.17k
split 7.54k (the coil used if you follow their instructions on coil split)
other coil 7.63k

BL USA L500XL
series 11.38k
split 5.71k (the coil used if you follow their instructions on coil split)
other coil 5.67k

pickup thickness: both 21mm approx

from the readings above I started to think maybe this BLUSA is a L500L rather than XL, however after some googling, 11k to 12k seem to be what the BL USA L500XL measures. I think i had read somewhere the B&B switched to Alnico magnet some time in the mid 2000's also.

My overall conclusion is I really like it and I want to buy more, but I dont really have any other guitars that need new pickups right now. Also I should probably at least give it a few weeks to really get a feel for the pickup.

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chris lykins said:
Had an old one in an old maple Mockingbird and couldn't pull it out fast enough. Was shrill and an ear killer in an all maple guitar.
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yep .. I have both and have never found a use for them in the bridge ... they do work ok in the neck though..but both of them are sitting in my pickup box hahaha
 
mnemonic said:
I got my Bill & Becky Wilde L500XL today and I’ve installed it in my strat, replacing the BL USA L500XL. I didnt do any clips because I think they’re not really that useful for comparing picukps, most of the difference between pickups is only apparent to the player I think, in how the guitar feels. The Euge Valovirta video above is good for comparing the BLUSA vs B&B in his nuno sig, good video to check out if you want clips.

I’ve been enjoying the BLUSA in the strat, but does require some additional EQ work in the amp, boosting more mids and cutting more highs/treble than with other pickups. right into an amp set up for a 'normal' pickup, and it sounds harsh and overly bright/piercing. Cleans are real nice though, I usually dont like bridge humbucker cleans and I think they sound like honk-city.

I do like the BLUSA but it is very bright and piercing in the treble, almost like a single coil in the high end. It is quite stiff and tight feeling also, hard to get a saturated sound from, even piling on the gain doesnt quite do it. Also, too close to the strings and it can get kind of flubby sounding.

the B&B L500XL is quite a bit hotter (all set to the same distances from the strings), the treble is quite a bit smoother yet still quite bright. I thought it sounded a bit funny at first but then just re-dialing my amp to how I usually have it set (rather than how i set it for the BL USA) and it suddenly just sounded 'right'. Fantastic level of saturation, very clear. Maybe hotter than the Lundgren M7 in my main guitar, as it clips my buffers a lot so I had to turn them off.

The guitar is an american deluxe ash strat from about 2006, set up with 250k volume 250k tone (usually i like 500k volume and no tone on humbucker bridge pickups). Sounds very good, The BLUSA with that setup was still very bright and spikey in the highs, and a little hard to work with, but sounds 'just right' with the B&B. I would like to try putting the tone knob on a switch so i could remove it from the circuit but I dont really feel like pulling the strat pickguard again right now, especially as it sounds really good as-is. Bill Lawrence recommended 500k pots as a minimum for the L500XL and preferred 1M. While 250k were OK for the L500L and lower output models.

Fit and finish - not amazing. I like the brass tapped inserts in the pickup tabs, but the tabs are still plastic like the BL USA (chrome plated though) and one was cracked where the insert went in (I put a dab of superglue on to prevent it from breaking off). An improvement over the BLUSA which is just machine screws into tapped plastic, which i have had strip out randomly when in a guitar before which is pretty annoying.

The tops of the coils don’t sit completely flat either, and on one side have a slight ‘curl’ you may be able to see in the picture. Most other pickups I have, the coils sit perfectly flush with one another, this one is more like some of my pickups where I’ve done mag-swaps and disturbed the coils a bit, so they are just marginally askew from one another.

Not sure if they are potted as you can clearly see the tape on the sides of the coils through the gap on top, and the windings through the tape. Doesn't howl or feed back though and I play loud and dont use a gate.

Packaging - was just the pickup in some bubblewrap in a padded envelope. I mean at the end of the day the pickup, not the packaging, is the important part, and these do still sell significantly cheaper than the usual SD, Dimarzio, etc.

Measurements

Bill & Becky L500XL
series 15.17k
split 7.54k (the coil used if you follow their instructions on coil split)
other coil 7.63k

BL USA L500XL
series 11.38k
split 5.71k (the coil used if you follow their instructions on coil split)
other coil 5.67k

pickup thickness: both 21mm approx

from the readings above I started to think maybe this BLUSA is a L500L rather than XL, however after some googling, 11k to 12k seem to be what the BL USA L500XL measures. I think i had read somewhere the B&B switched to Alnico magnet some time in the mid 2000's also.

My overall conclusion is I really like it and I want to buy more, but I dont really have any other guitars that need new pickups right now. Also I should probably at least give it a few weeks to really get a feel for the pickup.

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View attachment 204046

View attachment 204052
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Thanks for the write-up !

All good info. (y)

As I said, I've tried the BL USA L500XL, but haven't tried the Bill & Becky. Getting a new guitar today and I might order one and try it out.
 
RaceU4her said:
I just remembered an interview with dime where he said he uses the stewmac which are the usa ones backwards, figured there had to be something to it
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Usually people flip them "backwards" so that they phase align with a neck pickup from another pickup maker.
 
PLX said:
On my Dean From Hell they at least remembered to put the bridge pickup in backwards.

:ROFLMAO:
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You nailed Dimebag's tone doing that , for sure .

I prefer to use my Bill Lawrence L250's and XL-500's in the neck position, only if they are wound below 12k ohms .

I have a collection of old Bill Lawrence XL-500's and L-250's, from the late 1970's until 1984.
Those old BL pickups are like a valued Strativarios Violin, to me.

What I love about those pickup, when put in the neck position, they don't add or take away from the guitars tone, they only bring out what's in that guitar, totally uncolored.

The k ohms / Henries, vary with each pickup, they had lots of winding inconsistancies back in those times.

I dropped in some Seymour Duncan Triple Shot pickup rings with my Bill Lawrence XL-500's in both my 1974 Gibson LPC and 2007 Epiphone LPC and I hit the switch , hit my MIDI controller to activate my Decibel Eleven Loop Expander to use an Acoustic Modeller and with the nature of the Bill Lawrence XL-500 and L-250 in the neck position, I have a very convincing Acoustic guitar sound .

Those pickups are very versatile in that regard.
 
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