BKP Riff Raff vs VHII vs MCP Detroiter

[Soundstorm]

Well those are all hotter pickups, so Tone Specific doesn’t have an equivalent for that right now. Of the stuff made today honestly I don’t think anything is really that great. The Wagner Iron Man would probably be the best one I’ve had of stuff made now, but there’s so many ‘70’s & ‘80’s hot pickups you can buy for the same price that sound & feel just so much better such as the ‘70’s & ‘80’s Bill Lawrence’s (500L, XL, 550L, XL, L90, L100 (my favorite of the bunch)), Tim Shaw Dirty Fingers, Mighty Mite 1400. Seriously these current made pickups sound so bland & sterile, almost dead in comparison. These others are much more full of life, response and more importantly quality of tone while being more aggressive & raw. I challenge anyone who says their BKP or whichever recent made pickup they like to compare in the same guitar to one of the my recommendations and see if they don’t sound neutered and bleh in comparison

It's all on what you're going for, and most importantly how you set up your pickups and guitar. I've got BKP in three of my guitars now, but I go for disgustingly heavy tones. I've owned a lot of different pickups over the years, including MCP, and I've finally settled on these for everything. They sound phenomenal, but you have to know how to set them up properly or they won't sound good. BKP are especially sensitive to height adjustments, and it took me awhile to figure that out because I was trying to set them like other pickups I've had.

 

[angelspade]

It's all on what you're going for, and most importantly how you set up your pickups and guitar. I've got BKP in three of my guitars now, but I go for disgustingly heavy tones. I've owned a lot of different pickups over the years, including MCP, and I've finally settled on these for everything. They sound phenomenal, but you have to know how to set them up properly or they won't sound good. BKP are especially sensitive to height adjustments, and it took me awhile to figure that out because I was trying to set them like other pickups I've had.

Thanks for your input here...What BKP models have been best for your purposes?

 

[braintheory]

It's all on what you're going for, and most importantly how you set up your pickups and guitar. I've got BKP in three of my guitars now, but I go for disgustingly heavy tones. I've owned a lot of different pickups over the years, including MCP, and I've finally settled on these for everything. They sound phenomenal, but you have to know how to set them up properly or they won't sound good. BKP are especially sensitive to height adjustments, and it took me awhile to figure that out because I was trying to set them like other pickups I've had.

Trust me, I’m well aware of all that and tinker all the time with pickup height and screw heights. I don’t make those kinds of oversights. I’ve spent many years only using BKP’s for a while until I discovered better stuff. I’ve tried almost the entire line-up of bkp’s and often go very heavy tones too. The inherent quality of tone of the BKP’s is just to me too sterile, 2D, lacking complexity & rawness in tone vs the pickups I mentioned. Compare them in the same guitar and the differences are not subtle at all, at least not to me. Comparing in the same guitar exposes the qualities IME

For what it’s worth also here is a list of some of the brands of pickups I’ve been through, several models from many (minus the vintage stuff, which is an even more extensive list). Point is I’ve done my homework and it’s just my opinion based on that:
Tone Specific
Haussel
Dry
Virgil Arlo
Wolfetone
Klein
Ian Anderson
WB
Arcane
Motor City
Wagner
Suhr
Fralin
Lollar
Budz
Throbak
Lundgren
Bare Knuckle
Carvin
Seymour Duncan
Dimarzio
EMG

 

[Fiesta Red]

Trust me, I’m well aware of all that and tinker all the time with pickup height and screw heights. I don’t make those kinds of oversights. I’ve spent many years only using BKP’s for a while until I discovered better stuff. I’ve tried almost the entire line-up of bkp’s and often go very heavy tones too. The inherent quality of tone of the BKP’s is just to me too sterile, 2D, lacking complexity & rawness in tone vs the pickups I mentioned. Compare them in the same guitar and the differences are not subtle at all, at least not to me. Comparing in the same guitar exposes the qualities IME

For what it’s worth also here is a list of some of the brands of pickups I’ve been through, several models from many (minus the vintage stuff, which is an even more extensive list). Point is I’ve done my homework and it’s just my opinion based on that:
Tone Specific
Haussel
Dry
Virgil Arlo
Wolfetone
Klein
Ian Anderson
WB
Arcane
Motor City
Wagner
Suhr
Fralin
Lollar
Budz
Throbak
Lundgren
Bare Knuckle
Carvin
Seymour Duncan
Dimarzio
EMG

You've got both WB and Ian Anderson on this list. You're lucky you received anything at all once you sent them your money

 

[braintheory]

You've got both WB and Ian Anderson on this list. You're lucky you received anything at all once you sent them your money

Yeah I waited almost a year (11 months) for that Ian Anderson paf set, excuse after excuse, lol. The WB’s I bought used second hand. They were both good pickups, but for the same price I thought the Wolfetone’s & Klein’s were similarly good and I got them delivered fast from them, but Tone Specific’s & Virgil Arlo’s are imo on another level or 2 from all those brands in terms of quality of tone & feel and of course the good vintage pickups I’ve come across are my favorite pickups I’ve had. I’m lucky to have gotten one real paf last year out 6 that I got to compare in the same guitars of mine. They were all amazing, but 2 of them stood out a bit more over the others to me

 

[Dale B]

I have a BKP VHII. To me, it was a lot like having a lower output Duncan JB with a tighter low end. It’s very hot on top. It wasn’t “chewy” in the Les Paul Standard I used it in.

Take what Braintheory just said about his experiences with BKPs, mix it with what I just mentioned and you have my take on the VHII.

 

[blackie13]

I just don't see a reason why you should not invest in Tonenerd pickups...
I have not heard a clip where a BK is better than TN...apart from the price and the fact that we all contributed in making the pickups tones in RigTalk...
Especially if you are into hard rock and classic metal sounds...I don't care about djents...maybe BK are better at those shitty 0-1-1-1-0-0-0...

PS: I have had 3 BK pickups and no TN...so not biased...I would never get a BK pickups again...so overrated...

 

[LPMojoGL]

I have and love the Detroiter in my SG. Really thickened that tone up, which was exactly what it needed.
I've only tried a couple of BKP models, but didn't care for them.
Godwood by JWP is great. Loved the set in my Explorer.
Roxy by Tonenerd is tight with some nice lower mids. Love in my Charvel build, and plenty of guys on this forum enjoy them in their LPs. @scottosan here builds them. Great quality and price.

 

[Soundstorm]

Thanks for your input here...What BKP models have been best for your purposes?

I went with the Alnico Warpigs first, and then recently moved to the Aftermaths. The Warpigs are 21k and have too much low end for digital stuff IMO, but the Aftermaths are 15k and are more balanced but still have that same nasty grind that the Warpigs have. Which with a low tuning and enough gain gives you something of a chainsaw effect.

 

[Soundstorm]

Trust me, I’m well aware of all that and tinker all the time with pickup height and screw heights. I don’t make those kinds of oversights. I’ve spent many years only using BKP’s for a while until I discovered better stuff. I’ve tried almost the entire line-up of bkp’s and often go very heavy tones too. The inherent quality of tone of the BKP’s is just to me too sterile, 2D, lacking complexity & rawness in tone vs the pickups I mentioned. Compare them in the same guitar and the differences are not subtle at all, at least not to me. Comparing in the same guitar exposes the qualities IME

For what it’s worth also here is a list of some of the brands of pickups I’ve been through, several models from many (minus the vintage stuff, which is an even more extensive list). Point is I’ve done my homework and it’s just my opinion based on that:
Tone Specific
Haussel
Dry
Virgil Arlo
Wolfetone
Klein
Ian Anderson
WB
Arcane
Motor City
Wagner
Suhr
Fralin
Lollar
Budz
Throbak
Lundgren
Bare Knuckle
Carvin
Seymour Duncan
Dimarzio
EMG

I get that you've been through a lot of pups. I just figured if you were calling Motor City and BK pickups bland and sterile, something was probably wrong with your setup

 

[scottosan]

I just don't see a reason why you should not invest in Tonenerd pickups...
I have not heard a clip where a BK is better than TN...apart from the price and the fact that we all contributed in making the pickups tones in RigTalk...
Especially if you are into hard rock and classic metal sounds...I don't care about djents...maybe BK are better at those shitty 0-1-1-1-0-0-0...

PS: I have had 3 BK pickups and no TN...so not biased...I would never get a BK pickups again...so overrated...

BK has a hig product line and certainly covers a much larger tonal spectrum. I haven't dabble that much I lower output for several reasons. That market is saturated and I feel that everyone classified low output humbuckers as PAFs and as such people perception of what a PAF should sound like, is all over the place. If I'm going to make a PAF type, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of endless snake oil. I'd love to make 1;really good PAF type, but I can't get a consensus of what models to use as a baseline.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth!]

BK has a hig product line and certainly covers a much larger tonal spectrum. I haven't dabble that much I lower output for several reasons. That market is saturated and I feel that everyone classified low output humbuckers as PAFs and as such people perception of what a PAF should sound like, is all over the place. If I'm going to make a PAF type, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of endless snake oil. I'd love to make 1;really good PAF type, but I can't get a consensus of what models to use as a baseline.

Bryan in Flower Mound here…….love the Roxy you just sent.

As far as PAF’s, I would start with an A3 Gibson Custombucker and try to make it “slightly” hotter and a bit warmer on top. I’ve had dozens of supposed PAF types and that is my benchmark for true vintage tone. For something slightly hotter, it’s the Wolfetone MKII.

I’ll send you a Custombucker if you want to dissect it.

 

[scottosan]

Bryan in Flower Mound here…….love the Roxy you just sent.

As far as PAF’s, I would start with an A3 Gibson Custombucker and try to make it “slightly” hotter and a bit warmer on top. I’ve had dozens of supposed PAF types and that is my benchmark for true vintage tone. For something slightly hotter, it’s the Wolfetone MKII.

I’ll send you a Custombucker if you want to dissect it.

Thanks. I love ALNICO 3 for high gain. Maybe I'll mess around with some in the 8.7k-9.2k range.

 

[DanTravis62]

I might be the only guy out there that hasn't tried these higher-end boutique pickups. I'm still interested in experimenting and several have recommended the BK Miracle Man to me. That said, the standard Duncan JB, Custom and my EMGs have always sounded so good with my LPs that I'm a little hesitant. Do you guys really find a noticeable difference with the BKs, Motor Citys. etc.???

If you like higher output type stuff, I would try the Wagner Ironman and the ToneNerd Psykes.

Another under the radar great pickup is the Duncan sh-14.

BKP and Motor City certainly sound good, but I think they are both a little overrated, just my personal opinion.

I really do like all the aesthetic options BKP offers though.

 

[DanTravis62]

I get that you've been through a lot of pups. I just figured if you were calling Motor City and BK pickups bland and sterile, something was probably wrong with your setup

Different strokes for different folks, but I agree with @braintheory esp re BKP

Most of their pickups I find to be incredibly bland (esp for what they cost)

... but my "bland" may work perfectly with your rig, or for what you play, you know what I mean?

MCP makes much better sounding stuff than BKP imo, but wade is absolutely terrible at customer service, and there are also much better options imo in that price range - Wagner, tonenerd, etc

 

[braintheory]

I get that you've been through a lot of pups. I just figured if you were calling Motor City and BK pickups bland and sterile, something was probably wrong with your setup

What I really mean is they sounded bland & sterile in comparison to other good quality pickups in the same guitars of mine. I can get plenty good sounds with them of course if using them in a good guitar & amp, but there’s just imho higher quality stuff out there in regards to tone & feel. I think a lot of guys get into BKP or MCP as some of their first boutique pickups, get impressed, then stop searching, but I never stop and always try to look for the next step up. IME the pinnacle has been my various vintage pickups from the ‘50’s up to early ‘90’s (stuff by Bill Lawrence, Tim Shaw, Mighry Mite, Gibson, Gretsch, Hofner, Fender, vintage Japanese ones) & Tone Specific’s for lower output. Going back to any of this other stuff is now very bland & uninspiring for me. Just my experience/opinion though

 

[braintheory]

Different strokes for different folks, but I agree with @braintheory esp re BKP

Most of their pickups I find to be incredibly bland (esp for what they cost)

... but my "bland" may work perfectly with your rig, or for what you play, you know what I mean?

MCP makes much better sounding stuff than BKP imo, but wade is absolutely terrible at customer service, and there are also much better options imo in that price range - Wagner, tonenerd, etc

We can make plenty of bland gear “work”/fit well with the music, but to me at least having it just “work” is like a minimum baseline. It’s to me about making it work and on top of that having as good quality of a tone as I can get and those 2 pickup brands are just imho not optimal imho toward that goal. I want the gear where you play one or 2 simple notes (even open strings) and already it’s impressive

 

[braintheory]

If you like higher output type stuff, I would try the Wagner Ironman and the ToneNerd Psykes.

Another under the radar great pickup is the Duncan sh-14.

BKP and Motor City certainly sound good, but I think they are both a little overrated, just my personal opinion.

I really do like all the aesthetic options BKP offers though.

Yes I gotta admit they have some of the coolest looking pickups I’ve seen with great names (hence why I think marketing is part of their popularity). I seriously wish I could just buy their burnt chrome covers alone for my keeper pickups lol. They look sick!

As far a as current made stuff go those would also be my favorite high output pickups along with the Roxy & Sunset Strip, but these vintage highoutput pickups I’ve got just have a magic & rawness to them that makes it too hard to back lol and price wise they’re not much different anyway go than an Iron Man except for the Dirty Fingers, which are pricy and of course they feedback a lot

 

[DanTravis62]

Yes I gotta admit they have some of the coolest looking pickups I’ve seen with great names (hence why I think marketing is part of their popularity). I seriously wish I could just buy their burnt chrome covers alone for my keeper pickups lol. They look sick!

As far a as current made stuff go those would also be my favorite high output pickups along with the Roxy & Sunset Strip, but these vintage highoutput pickups I’ve got just have a magic & rawness to them that makes it too hard to back lol and price wise they’re not much different anyway than an Iron Man except for the Dirty Fingers, which are pricy and of course they feedback a lot

I have played a couple impressive vintage pickups (dirty fingers and l500, x2n) but honestly IMO they vary so much from pickup to pickup that it's a bit of a gamble.

I know Jim Wagner and Scott's stuff is going to be relatively steady. Although, I would certainly love a great L500 or Shawbuckers or something.

We can make plenty of bland gear “work”/fit well with the music, but to me at least having it just “work” is like a minimum baseline. It’s to me about making it work and on top of that having as good quality of a tone as I can get and those 2 pickup brands are just imho not optimal imho toward that goal. I want the gear where you play one or 2 simple notes (even open strings) and already it’s impressive

I completely agree - I can make anything sound "good" in a relative sense, but it is really nice when you soundcheck a couple of power chords at a club and you hear a couple of "woooooo"s and "holy shit"s from the pre-gig crowd

or your buddy picks up your guitar and makes that "oh my god" face after playing a couple of his favorite riffs or solos - that honestly never gets old, taking my rig to buddy's houses or practice pads for gear nerding out.

Having your rig dialed in that surgically is really a freeing feeling, and lets you concentrate and put your energy into everything else as far as playing guitar

 

[braintheory]

I have played a couple impressive vintage pickups (dirty fingers and l500, x2n) but honestly IMO they vary so much from pickup to pickup that it's a bit of a gamble.

I know Jim Wagner and Scott's stuff is going to be relatively steady. Although, I would certainly love a great L500 or Shawbuckers or something.

Yeah IME it depends. IME most vintage pickups I’ve had vary a bit from each one (like PAF’s, old fender & Gretsch pickups, 500L’s, Shaws), some vary a lot (like Hofner’s, BL L90’s), and some models have been very consistent (Mighty Mites), BUT even the worst examples I’ve had of any of these vintage pickups I still imho think they smoke all the current made pickups I’ve had in tone & feel except for some of the Tone Specific’s (but those are not as suited for metal), so I don’t really see it as too much of a gamble as long as they don’t have functional issues, but that has happened several times sadly for me

Some of those ‘80’s Shaw PAF’s can be incredible and scary close sounding to real ‘50’s PAF’s imo, just a bit edgier and not quite as 3D or warm. I have this one unusual vintage Shaw paf set where the bridge pup is almost 16k and the neck in the 9’s and it just sounds like way hotter paf set with still all that midrange squish & bluesy goodness just way hotter

For the stuff you play in your clips my top choices would be probably be my ‘70’s Bill Lawrence L90, ‘70’s L100, ‘60’s Hofner Blade or ‘60’s Gretsch Supertron. The last 2 feedback a lot by nature under high gain, but their quality of tone, rawness, snarl, grind, bite and articulation is just unrivaled imo. This is the kind of gear where for me the real fun happens