Buying new amp... but which one?

[Johnie Darko]

Hi everybody!
After spending a few years with my Vetta, I decided to let it go and buy (once again) a tube amp.
I used to have a couple of tube amps (Peavey Ultra 120, Marshall, Crate etc) before but in the end I sold 'em and bought a Vetta, with which I'm quite happy...
However, I still miss that tube tone... no matter how good the Vetta sounds it just doesn't have the same kind of "feel" , sustain, articulation and response that a full tube amp has.
So I decided to sell my vetta (and a fender strat SRV) and buy a tube amp.
Ok, so now I'm in a bit of a dilemma... I've found a used JCM800 Jubille Slasg sig amp head and a soldano hot rod 50 (no xl) head.
But what I really want to buy is a diezel amp. I might have to spend a lot more money for a vh4 or a herbert, or I can go for the einstein.
I play many different kinds of music but mostly I play blues (SRV=God), Hard rock and 80's metal (from Maiden,ACDC,Metallica,Priest to Whitesnake,G'n'R,Extreme,Skid Row, Gary Moore etc).
Which amp would you guys recommend?
I was thinking that with the money I'd have to spend to buy a vh4 or herbert, I could buy both the einstein and say the Slash sig Marshall. Or I can just go for a vh4... I like to be able to have a few sounds readily accessible and so I guess a 4 channel amp would be great for me, but on the other hand, an einstein with the switch mod for channel 1 is also a good solution. Keep in mind that most of the times I will be using the amp indoors (though I don't have a problem with high but reasonable volumes).
Btw, I will be using the amp (for now) with a Peavey 4x12" Shefield 75s cab.
So, what do you think? Will I get the sounds I'm searching for from an einstein? (I'm not into nu metal stuff but I DO LOVE the master of puppets era metal sound).
I mean I'd like to be able to dial tones from master of puppets to Gary Moore (2 of my favourite lead sounds are Gary Moore's and Slash's lead sound) to SRV!
I know I'm asking a lot, but... anyway, which one would you recommend?
Thanks for any help!

 

[scottph]

Herbert.

With the Midcut the Herbert offers you six different sounds at the tip of your fingers / MIDI-switcher.

 

[Johnie Darko]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but it's also 180watts... will it be useable indoors? I mean I haven't even used my vetta above half way... I usually play with the Vetta at about 9.30-10.30 (clockwise) and it's 100watts (although It is a combo with 2x12" and I have it also connected on my 4x12" peavey cab)

Oh, btw, I forgot to mention that since I'm selling my srv, for the time being I will only be playing through the amp with my Lag Arcane Master Prestige (Emg 81,SA,89, floyd rose original)

 

[scottph]

Look at my avatar. I hardly play anywhere else but at home. Master and Channel Vol at around 9 AM.

Don't let the watts fool you: 180 is not "louder" than 100. You just have more headroom.

 

[itsme]

I'd get the Einstein. It is great for blues, and 80's rock. Nice and simple 2 channel. Also cheaper. I think the Herbert has too much gain. I can't run my gain on Channel 2 above 2:00, or Channel 3 above 12:00 or it is too much. I'd like to have a 50 watt Einstein.

 

[Me]

9am! I play at home at somewhere between 7am (off) and 8am. I find the first 0 to 0.75 of the knob it's hearable and the volume barely seems to change, then there's a magic spot where I tweak the knob up and down by a few fractions of a degree and it goes from this "fine but a bit quieter than I need" (where the power tubes probably aren't providing any current at all ) to "LOUD!!!" (Whooah, it's kicked in! ). I turn the knob back and forth for a bit until I get just the right level in the 0.1 degrees between them both.

Maybe I'm too considerate of my neighbours and I could actually play at 9am without upsetting them. It sounds nicer past the "Yay, it's rocking" point. Might this have something to do with having 2 6L6s with 4 EL34s? Does everyone else get the quiet but hearable from off to about 1, then at anything above this it seems to suddenly kick in?

I'm using G12s, not V30s (due to gear history, not choice) so the extra efficiency of the G12s might make it a bit more obvious?

 

[Me]

BTW, to answer your question... You'll be happy with any diezel really, as they're all quite flexible. Put the names in a hat and pull one out! I like the MIDI thing with a VH4 or Herbert as my rig is midi switchable. If not I'd probably buy an Einstein, then buy a small 1x12" 2nd hand combo with reverb with the change so I can turn up places and jam without taking my "big rig" out every time. Or at the moment I'd actually buy a nice new Diezel cab as my Marshall 1960A with G12T-75s doesn't exactly do my Herbert justice.

Some of my friends play in a band and I quite liked their general guitar sound on both guitars, although I thought it wasn't nearly as nice as my Herbert. I then found out they were both using a line 6 Herbert amp model!!! Nice, but definitely not the real thing!

 

[sden]

go with the Einstein.
It delivers exactly the sounds you mentioned, I don't think there's a need to pick up the Marshall.

 

[nbarts]

I'd say you should look at VH4 first & Einstein second. VH4 will nail all the metal you have mentioned, Einstein will do blues better. You will need to try both & decide for yourself. As much as I love Herbert I don't think it fits your description, not even close.

 

[Johnie Darko]

Thanks for the replies guys...
I'm not really concerned about neighbors as I have a really nice and big basement and I play there anytime I want to, without "disturbing the peace"
However I don't feel the need to really crank up the volume, that's why I thought it might be an overkill to go with the Herbert... I like reasonable volumes, but of course not low.
I guess this might be a problem with master volume heads (like the JCM and the Hotrod 50) cause you do have to crank them up to find their sweet spot.
On the other hand, since the einstein's price is almost half the herbert's price, (and I can't say I'm a big midi fan) and it comes in 50 and 100watts too, this might be the way to go...
The only thing I'm worried is if the einstein can also deliver the "heavier" sound (ala Metallica's oldies).
I've listened to herberts and I know they can, but what about einsteins?
Has anybody recorded any hard rock/heavy sounds with it? If yes a link would be really appreciated as I can't seem to find a good quality sample (with no other instruments) in youtube...
Finally, would you recommend the head or the combo? I do have a 4x12" cab which I can connect to any of these 2 but maybe the combo is better (more flexible) because of the added reverb?

 

[slate]

the einstein has more than enough gain for old school metallica tones - you'll never use it all , i promise .
and forget the marshall - you'll get the best "hot rodded marshall" sound that youve ever heard from the einstein .
i played marshalls for 25 years until i heard the einstein - now i'd never even look at one again .
the diezels are in a totally different league .

 

[Me]

If you're not getting the Marshall, which kinda seems like the best idea according to everyone here, and you had money for an einstein & marshall, I'd get the Einstein & a diezel cab!

Just because the Eini isn't the most "metal" of the diezels makes it no way soft or light. I can get plenty of fat metal out of my Herbert's 2nd (not even 3rd!) channel with the gain just over half!

As the website decribes the Eini..

"The sounds are a sparkling clean, a pretty vintage sounding crunch (goes from SRV to AC/DC) and the typical Diezel mega-crunch of mode three in the first channel.

The lead, the unique sound-mode of channel two, is fluid and is able to make you and your guitar either sing or cry, either scream or shout. "

(yes, that does say "mega-crunch of mode three in the first channel")

You can always check out the sounds on the site too...

 

[nbarts]

I'd forget about the "Watt" thing. Herbert can provide better tone in lower volumes than a 15w head. I've noticed that most of quality 100watters with master volume get a great tone in bedroom level, may be not suitable for apartment situation, but not ear blasting either. You could easily use Herby in an apartment too.

 

[scottph]

I'd get the Einstein. It is great for blues, and 80's rock. Nice and simple 2 channel. Also cheaper. I think the Herbert has too much gain. I can't run my gain on Channel 2 above 2:00, or Channel 3 above 12:00 or it is too much. I'd like to have a 50 watt Einstein.

So turn the gain down...

 

[scottph]

9am! I play at home at somewhere between 7am (off) and 8am. I find the first 0 to 0.75 of the knob it's hearable and the volume barely seems to change, then there's a magic spot where I tweak the knob up and down by a few fractions of a degree and it goes from this "fine but a bit quieter than I need" (where the power tubes probably aren't providing any current at all ) to "LOUD!!!" (Whooah, it's kicked in! ). I turn the knob back and forth for a bit until I get just the right level in the 0.1 degrees between them both.

Maybe I'm too considerate of my neighbours and I could actually play at 9am without upsetting them. It sounds nicer past the "Yay, it's rocking" point. Might this have something to do with having 2 6L6s with 4 EL34s? Does everyone else get the quiet but hearable from off to about 1, then at anything above this it seems to suddenly kick in?

I'm using G12s, not V30s (due to gear history, not choice) so the extra efficiency of the G12s might make it a bit more obvious?

My Herbie seems to react to vol changes better then. There's no real spot where it goes from bedroom-level to WTF?!
Also, I have a Rocktron Xpression in the loop which would let me change volume there to when the loop is engaged, but I don't bother with that too much.
I have an Engl pro with V30's.

 

[scottph]

I'd forget about the "Watt" thing. Herbert can provide better tone in lower volumes than a 15w head. I've noticed that most of quality 100watters with master volume get a great tone in bedroom level, may be not suitable for apartment situation, but not ear blasting either. You could easily use Herby in an apartment too.

I second that...well, actually I already said that. Watts != Volume.

 

[hairychris444]

the einstein has more than enough gain for old school metallica tones - you'll never use it all

True.

Doesn't quite have the gain of the Herbert but has a different voice and you can get old Metallica easily out of it. It doesn't do the stupido level of gain that some amps do, but if you want heavy with clarity it'll be your best friend. I use the 'mega-cruch' channel primarily, and switch to the lead channel to get more saturation, both plenty of gain for the thrash-type stuff that I play. It's not as straight down butal as my fiddled-with Mesa, but has a tone and clarity that the Mesa can't do and feels way more precise. And the 100w version does mixed tube sets for more fun!

 

[itsme]

I'd get the Einstein. It is great for blues, and 80's rock. Nice and simple 2 channel. Also cheaper. I think the Herbert has too much gain. I can't run my gain on Channel 2 above 2:00, or Channel 3 above 12:00 or it is too much. I'd like to have a 50 watt Einstein.

So turn the gain down...

I wasn't saying that I couldn't use it, Mr ESP. I've been gigging with my Herbert for the past 2 years and will never get rid of it. Best amp I've ever played. Just saying that 2:00 and 12:00 are basically the stop points for me. The Einstein has just as much.

 

[scottph]

Oh ok, then I must have misunderstood that "I think the Herbert has too much gain. I can't run my gain on Channel 2 above 2:00, or Channel 3 above 12:00 or it is too much." for "I can't use it with that much gain."...Mr. Touring Musician...

 

[jcj]

I'd say the Herbert. Channel 2 is easily the best voiced amp channel I've personally experienced. I have an Einstein as well as the Herbert, and while the Einstein is a great amp, the Herbert has much more "clarity" to my ears. Much tighter. Play with the mid cut (small doses) on channel 2, and there's very few sounds you can't acheive. Killer, killer tones, with tons of open, ringing harmonics. Fantastic amp.