Captor X vs Suhr rl IR vs Box of Doom

[dudu]

My ears also tell me that Suhr is better as a load for IR's than the torpedo. I use the CAB m+ and reload as my load. A trick is using the through feature on the CAB m+ BEFORE it hits the load. So to me, I am grabbing the unaltered signal off the amp through the cab m (applying the IR and listening through phones) and then having it hit the load rather than having it hit the load and then taking that signal into IR.

In theory, I "should" be minimizing the coloration of the load on my tone but I am sure some nerds will tell me why I am not. I have a bunch of the torpedo cabs that came with the software and some I bought from ownhammer a few years back but I use my own two the most. One is a 57 on a weber legacy and the other is a cascade fat head mixed with a 57 also on the legacy. Sometimes all the extra shit they add in the IR's makes it sound too polished and not raw enough.

The line out on the Suhr RL taps into the signal before the load element so it already does what you want

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The line out on the Suhr RL taps into the signal before the load element so it already does what you want

Bingo, that's probably way it sounds better head to head. My way of doing it just involves more parts so technically a person could save themselves a ton of cash by just getting a CAB M or other loader and putting it between the amp and any old crappy attenuator set to load. Jet city makes a cheapo and there are many others.

 

[VESmedic]

Thanks for the replies. I'm looking more for how well it does a recorded sound rather than attenuated sound as I can't really play loud at all.

From what I heard initially the Suhr has always sounded best, but the mix on the Trivium stream was decent and certainly better than what we sound like live. I don't know for sure if that's what they were using in the hanger but that is what was said in chat.

To get a decent live tone with out much fuss and having a little flexibility in the moment with the app would be a pro for the captor X, but it seems you may have to work a bit more for it.

I'm not the best recorder by any means but in my experience even an sm58 on a cardboard box sounded better than what I could get with IRs, but this could likely be due to lack of experience.

It was for sure the captor X and the nolly IR I mentioned, trust me haha. Either way, you gotta rmemeber they also have a pro FOH and monitor guy, it’s alllll gonna sound good no matter what brotha.

 

[ZEN Amps]

This came up in the other recent thread I think, but it's important to remember that it's a two-way street. That is the load affects what the amp is actually outputting, and in some cases quite radically.

For example your amp may produce significantly less low-mids and bottom end when used with an inaccurate load. So even if you're tapping off the speaker output before the load, the damage is done. This is one of the reasons IR's are hit and miss - if you choose one lacking in lows and your load is off, you've got zero chance of getting a ballsy sound.

 

[VESmedic]

This came up in the other recent thread I think, but it's important to remember that it's a two-way street. That is the load affects what the amp is actually outputting, and in some cases quite radically.

For example your amp may produce significantly less low-mids and bottom end when used with an inaccurate load. So even if you're tapping off the speaker output before the load, the damage is done. This is one of the reasons IR's are hit and miss - if you choose one lacking in lows and your load is off, you've got zero chance of getting a ballsy sound.

zen nailed it, as usual. Unfortunately the reason these discussions haven’t happened much in the last 10 years in my opinion is that there was such a jump in what was accessible and doable, that nuances like this haven’t come up except in super nerdy/audiophile type discussions. Meaning engineers and producers with good ears are aware of these issues, the average guitar player without the developed ear has not. Whether it matters to him or not is up to him. But I’m hoping im the future, after the experience I’ve had with two notes compared to some newer technologies, that this problem gets addressed and fixed.

 

[Tone Monster]

I have to really watch the low end using the Captor X (just like micing). It puts out a ton of low end energy. I always reach for a multiband compress to control the palm mutes.

 

[Holy-diver]

I have the Suhr Reactive load ir and it sounds awesome. I have no experience with any of the other load boxes, this is just the one I went with after researching and it isn’t disappointing. It is very high quality as well

 

[Whatamada]

I've only used the Captor X and I think it's amazing.
My amp sounds amazing, can't hear any loss of any kind and as an IR and into my DAW it's extremely flexible.
The app on my phone is so easy to use and changes can be made and assigned real quick, when at a gig or rehearsal to be able to connect wirelessly and that fast is great.

 

[PBGas]

The low end is great if you are listening to only the guitar. However, if you drop that into a mix, you are quickly going to find out that you need that space for your bass and drums.

In any case, I haven't found any issues with the bottom end being lost with the Captor X as I have had several other load boxes to compare from the past. The unit works and sounds great for the purpose that I need it.

 

[Deleted member 27935]

The low end is great if you are listening to only the guitar. However, if you drop that into a mix, you are quickly going to find out that you need that space for your bass and drums.

In any case, I haven't found any issues with the bottom end being lost with the Captor X as I have had several other load boxes to compare from the past. The unit works and sounds great for the purpose that I need it.

The low end is not missing with the Torpedo Captor. It‘s just very inaccurate. The impedance curve of a guitar speaker normally has a peak that resembles a parametric EQ. The low end of the Captor‘s impedance curve is more like shelf EQ.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

This came up in the other recent thread I think, but it's important to remember that it's a two-way street. That is the load affects what the amp is actually outputting, and in some cases quite radically.

For example your amp may produce significantly less low-mids and bottom end when used with an inaccurate load. So even if you're tapping off the speaker output before the load, the damage is done. This is one of the reasons IR's are hit and miss - if you choose one lacking in lows and your load is off, you've got zero chance of getting a ballsy sound.

This was the nerdy response I was looking/ hoping for. While I think it is the best way to hook up what I have, it seems logical that a load sort of "pushes" back or affects what an amp can put out.

For the record, I also found a lot of the cabs that shipped with Torpedo stuff to be extremely bass heavy. They lack the cut and detail which is why I like my own and some of the older IR's like Redwirez. I'm interested in testing out the Lynch pack though but who knows with George these days. He seems to like a mushier tone. Either way if I were starting from scratch today, I'd go with the Suhr no question. Pete thorn did a vid a few years back with a bunch of highly regarded units and the Suhr was the best to my ears. Not sure how the Fryette stuff stacks up but Suhr has a good ear for things I find. Pedals, pickups, amps. The guy is dialed in.

 

[VESmedic]

I can only speak for the two notes torpedo live, but the low end on it is just wrong, period, and I never knew why. Im not saying it doesn’t HAVE low end, just that the response is not at all accurate to a real amp, or a better load box. I can’t speak for the captor X, it may very well be much better who knows. But the live isn’t at all. The impedence curves shows why, it has a low end shelf below 125 hz, while real 4x12s have a sharp resonant peak between 90-100hz or so, sometimes lower, that’s why the response is better on products like the suhr, and the st rock reactive IR. They manipulate this curve much more accurately, creating a much better feel and response, it’s more natural and what you would expect from a real head and cab. If it works for you that’s awesome, that’s all that matters. I personally notice it big time, and many of my amps are so far and away off from when I use a real cab and mic vs an IR, even an IR I created with the same setup.

 

[VESmedic]

The low end is not missing with the Torpedo Captor. It‘s just very inaccurate. The impedance curve of a guitar speaker normally has a peak that resembles a parametric EQ. The low end of the Captor‘s impedance curve is more like shelf EQ.

bingo. 100 percent, I just posted this as well. Ironically, there isn’t much talk about this, but I have a feeling you will see this more and more. Many guys using load boxes have never heard a real mic and cab mic’d up, so they don’t realize what they are missing or what is actually inaccurate, that’s important to remember. Probably doesn’t apply to many guys here, but definitely the newer younger generation of guitarists.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

It was for sure the captor X and the nolly IR I mentioned, trust me haha. Either way, you gotta rmemeber they also have a pro FOH and monitor guy, it’s alllll gonna sound good no matter what brotha.

Good point, it's hitting his mixer and then getting the treatment to sit best in the mix.

 

[Spaceboy]

your load is influencing the tone befo

I use the CAB m+ and reload as my load. A trick is using the through feature on the CAB m+ BEFORE it hits the load. So to me, I am grabbing the unaltered signal off the amp through the cab m (applying the IR and listening through phones) and then having it hit the load rather than having it hit the load and then taking that signal into IR.

In theory, I "should" be minimizing the coloration of the load on my tone but I am sure some nerds will tell me why I am not. I have a bunch of the torpedo cabs that came with the software and some I bought from ownhammer a few years back but I use my own two the most. One is a 57 on a weber legacy and the other is a cascade fat head mixed with a 57 also on the legacy. Sometimes all the extra shit they add in the IR's makes it sound too polished and not raw enough.

The load is influencing your tone regardless of where you tap for your line.

 

[ZEN Amps]

The low end is not missing with the Torpedo Captor. It‘s just very inaccurate. The impedance curve of a guitar speaker normally has a peak that resembles a parametric EQ. The low end of the Captor‘s impedance curve is more like shelf EQ.

Yeah most loads are a simple hi and low shelf eq, or call it a mid cut. The problem with this low boost is that it sounds and feels quite different to a large peak like a cab has - especially if you live a chug life. But as many have found, it doesn't matter at all so I guess the moral is use the tools you have and just play

 

[Webb]

Also yes the trivium guys were originally planning on using the box of doom for the megadeth tour that just started. They even tracked the new album with it originally, however josh was not happy with the tone, thought it was alittle boxy in the mids, no pun intended. They ended up retracking all of the rhythm guitars with my Mesa OS cab with a 57. Leads on the new record are an SLO, with I believe still the box of doom
Though, with a redback 150 speaker. the problem with things like the box of doom is the whole thing is the speaker/cabinet. It’s not nearly as solid as a real cab on the back baffle, which can lead to some non pleasing results.

The IR they are using live and during streaming is an IR from nolly getgood, a 57 on one of his Mesa cabs.

Interesting. Thought they were big Kemper fans. So they’re no longer using one?

 

[Devin]

I have not tried the box of doom, but based on the Jet City ISO cab I do have.....I can not recommend any ISO cab.

The comb filtering effect you get with them fucking sucks

 

[Devin]

Also just wanted to say that I saw Trivium (along with Lamb of God and Megadeth!) Saturday night and they fuckin killed it (all the bands did!)

 

[VESmedic]

Interesting. Thought they were big Kemper fans. So they’re no longer using one?

Yep, Paolo the bassist is the only one still using it . Corey and Matt are both using the 5153 stealth with the captor X and the IR i mentioned above. The Kemper will still be used overseas though more than likely, as they have an A rig here in the states and a B rig that is housed I believe in Germany that goes wherever they are playing on that side of the world, which is loaded with Kemper’s. They just got tired of it man, Atleast Corey did, he’s the tone and gear guy in the band for sure. It’s great, and I played over 500 shows with mine as well live, but there’s just something about using a real amp still, no doubt about it. Plus for them, they have techs, it’s not like they are the ones setting everything up etc, but at the same time, any band on that level is worried about freight cost above many other things too, so gotta factor that in.