Celestion G12-65's...Old vs New

I tried a pair in an orange tolex SLO combo. The ET65 sounded like the darker 3054 from 82-83, which is to say they sounded good! But, like any/every WGS I’ve tried they wilt a bit under heavy volume. Celestions hold up far better imo.
This pair has been in a semi open back 2-12 cab. Normally use two 2-12’s for gigs. Other cab has the WGS Classic Lead copies..With the Wizard head 2 is as loud as I get and they are ok. Hard to find speakers that hold up in a 2-12. Wonder how the ET90’s would be, almost went with those. Not a big fan of those CL copies. Strange voicing.
 
I run a pair of’81 T3054’s in a Mesa Halfback 2x12. They sound great with about any amp I throw at them, and, really shine under some volume! I’ve tried Two Rocks’ WGS and Eminence versions and much preferred the ‘81’s.
 
Guess I’m the dissenter……I hate 65’s. I keep trying them thinking I’m missing something. The Heritage had an obnoxious nasal honk and were very dark. I just pulled a quad of “1777” originals out of an 81’ Marshall cab because they are too flat and boring sounding. They will reside in my closet until I think I’m missing something again. I’ve also tried the ET-65 and Scumback BM75-LD. Similar results with slight variations.

FWIW, I use Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s for almost everything.
 
Guess I’m the dissenter……I hate 65’s. I keep trying them thinking I’m missing something. The Heritage had an obnoxious nasal honk and were very dark. I just pulled a quad of “1777” originals out of an 81’ Marshall cab because they are too flat and boring sounding. They will reside in my closet until I think I’m missing something again. I’ve also tried the ET-65 and Scumback BM75-LD. Similar results with slight variations.

FWIW, I use Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s for almost everything.
Have you tried them at decent stage volume?
One big thing with the G12-65's is that they need some serious juice to come alive.
 
Guess I’m the dissenter……I hate 65’s. I keep trying them thinking I’m missing something. The Heritage had an obnoxious nasal honk and were very dark. I just pulled a quad of “1777” originals out of an 81’ Marshall cab because they are too flat and boring sounding. They will reside in my closet until I think I’m missing something again. I’ve also tried the ET-65 and Scumback BM75-LD. Similar results with slight variations.

FWIW, I use Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s for almost everything.
They sound really good with a Marshall type circuit; my Mesas like them too but for me they go great with a brighter Marshall.
But, not every speaker works for everyone. Lots use V30s with Marshalls; I find it too ‘middy’ for me. Except my 88 slant with early 8 ohm Marshall Vintages being the exception.
 
Guess I’m the dissenter……I hate 65’s. I keep trying them thinking I’m missing something. The Heritage had an obnoxious nasal honk and were very dark. I just pulled a quad of “1777” originals out of an 81’ Marshall cab because they are too flat and boring sounding. They will reside in my closet until I think I’m missing something again. I’ve also tried the ET-65 and Scumback BM75-LD. Similar results with slight variations.

FWIW, I use Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s for almost everything.
I agree. I hated the recent made ‘65’s I had. Really dark and muffled sounding. Haven’t tried the vintage ‘65’s, but had ‘80’s vented T75’s, which I’ve been told sound similar, just a bit brighter (1777 cones on them I believe it was) and those were also a bit dark sounding. They sounded nice to me, even used successfully in one of friend’s re-amps, but paled vs the pre-rola GB’s I got later on (no surprise I suppose) in terms of actual quality of tone. I also use those speakers (GB & V30’s) for a good majority these days

More powerful speakers in general do sound flatter, not as good tone, but more thump/bottom end, power and efficiency. Celestions imo really excel in their midrange characteristics, while JBL’s and Fane’s (particular the crescendo) are the opposite and much better in the lows and highs, so my approach has been more to use JBL’s or Crescendo’s to supply that and low powered Celestions to supply the tone and mids like ‘60’s Alnico blues or pre-rola GB’s (especially the 20w version). Imo it’s a great formula (worked for EVH too with his JBL D120F/GB 20w combo). I don’t use as much higher powered Celestion’s, doesn’t really play to their strengths imo and vice versa with JBL’s and Fane’s
 
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I agree. I hated the recent made ‘65’ I had. Really dark and muffled sounding. Haven’t tried the vintage ‘65’s, but had ‘80’s vented T75’s, which I’ve been told sound similar, just a bit brighter (1777 cones on them I believe it was) and those were also a bit dark sounding. They sounded nice to me, even used successfully in one of friend’s re-amps, but paled vs the pre-rola GB’s I got later on (no surprise I suppose) in terms of actual quality of tone. I also use those speakers (GB & V30’s) for a good majority these days

More powerful speakers in general do sound flatter, not as good tone, but more thump/bottom end, power and efficiency. Celestions imo really excel in their midrange characteristics, while JBL’s and Fane’s (particular the crescendo) are the opposite and much better in the lows and highs, so my approach has been more to use JBL’s or Crescendo’s to supply that and low powered Celestions to supply the tone and mids like ‘60’s Alnico blues or pre-rola GB’s (especially the 20w version). Imo it’s a great formula (worked for EVH too with his JBL D120F/GB 20w combo). I don’t use as much higher powered Celestion’s, doesn’t really play to their strengths imo and vice versa with JBL’s and Fane’s
Did you have a 412 with the 65s? I’ve had a couple combos with them, they aren’t the best in an open back scenario. But in a 412 with some volume they do come alive. And while similar to the vented 75s the 65s are easily better sounding to me anyway. Sold off my T75s.
 
Did you have a 412 with the 65s? I’ve had a couple combos with them, they aren’t the best in an open back scenario. But in a 412 with some volume they do come alive. And while similar to the vented 75s the 65s are easily better sounding to me anyway. Sold off my T75s.
Yes they were in my Kerry Wright 412 (stock speakers in it I believe), which is a closed back, rear loaded 412, I believe somewhat Marshall influenced cab. I played it plenty loud and still too dark and just wasn’t great. Almost all the countless swaps I’ve done since in that cab sounded much brighter

I’ve not tried the vintage 65’s, so can’t say about that, but between the 20 GB’s & Blues for tone & mids and JBL’s & Creacendo’s for thump & power I’m not sure if the 65’s would contribute anything vs those, but maybe it could be worth trying for peace of mind lol. I also always test and compare speakers isolated (not in a cab) before installing them to really understand them as tonal ingredients. Most guys seem to just hear them in cabs, so don’t always know the true flavor of the speaker
 
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Yes they were in my Kerry Wright 412 (stock speakers in it I believe), which is a closed back, rear loaded 412, I believe somewhat Marshall influenced cab. I played it plenty loud and still too dark and just wasn’t great. Almost all the countless swaps I’ve done since in that cab sounded much brighter

I’ve not tried the vintage 65’s, so can’t say about that, but between the 20 GB’s & Blues for tone & mids and JBL’s & Creacendo’s for thump & power I’m not sure if the 65’s would contribute anything vs those, but maybe it could be worth trying for peace of mind lol. I also always test and compare speakers isolated (not in a cab) before installing them to really understand them as tonal ingredients. Most guys seem to just hear them in cabs, so don’t always know the true flavor of the speaker
They do sound like a higher powered GB; when pushed anyway. Mine are the Marshall labeled 3120s and when I play my 72 loud, it’s through the 72 Pulsonic cab and the 79 with 65s.
 
They do sound like a higher powered GB; when pushed anyway. Mine are the Marshall labeled 3120s and when I play my 72 loud, it’s through the 72 Pulsonic cab and the 79 with 65s.
Cool if I can find a 3210 at a good price I’ll give it a shot and compare isolated vs both my 25 & 20 pre-rola. Very exposed differences in those types of comparisons. The vented 75’s I had imo a GB-ish voicing, just not as good tone vs the pre-rola’s, but wasn’t as far behind imo vs the ‘70’s Creambacks 25’s I used to have when compared

Out of curiosity which 65 cones have that really bright voicing like a JBL? The only speaker I’ve tried so far that’s brighter than any of the JBL’s have been just my one 20w pre-rola GB. My other 20 GB actually isn’t as bright (probably was played more), but otherwise sounds the same and has that same ferocious midrange thing going on. They’re in the top row of my KW currently with a pre-rola 25 GB and Alnico Gold on bottom (for now…)
 
Cool if I can find a 3210 at a good price I’ll give it a shot and compare isolated vs both my 25 & 20 pre-rola. Very exposed differences in those types of comparisons. The vented 75’s I had imo a GB-ish voicing, just not as good tone vs the pre-rola’s, but wasn’t as far behind imo vs the ‘70’s Creambacks 25’s I used to have when compared

Out of curiosity which 65 cones have that really bright voicing like a JBL? The only speaker I’ve tried so far that’s brighter than any of the JBL’s have been just my one 20w pre-rola GB. My other 20 GB actually isn’t as bright (probably was played more), but otherwise sounds the same and has that same ferocious midrange thing going on. They’re in the top row of my KW currently with a pre-rola 25 GB and Alnico Gold on bottom (for now…)
If you can find them, they made some 65s with aluminum dust caps like JBLs, and also with these weird ‘wizzer’ cones. I think they are talked about on the Bygone Tones site. Bizarre
 
Racerxrated took the time, coached and helped me in my search for the ‘right’ 65’s loaded cab.
This one’s a 1980 with the T3120’s with the 1777 cones. Great sounding speakers, so much better than the one I tried a few years back with the 444 cones. It was a bit muddy in my opinion,
this one is REAL good
The closest to ‘the perfect’ cab I’ve had.
I actually prefer these speakers to all the greenback cabs I have including 6402 cones, Blackback 1777 cones, Blackback 444 cones and the real old vintage 102-003 cones.
These T3120 speakers have the magic warm woody crunch of the old 25w speakers with much more ‘solid’ intact, tight clarity in the bass.

Thanks, RacerX!
View attachment 109583

RacerX helping folks out with this stuff seems to be a common thing.
Here's your chance to pay it forward. Just send me 2 of said speakers and your karma will reach new levels.
 
Have you tried them at decent stage volume?
One big thing with the G12-65's is that they need some serious juice to come alive.

I traded a blond tolex Fender Bandmaster cab with V30's for an early 80's JCM 800 cab with '65's, not sure which ones. I noted they weren't as loud, but man the clean and solo tones were deluxe, especially with the Rivera M60 head I was using at the time.

The band I was in played post-core/grunge kind of music, and the amp lacked the punch and edge I needed to compete with my other guitarist's 5150 and 1960 A/V cab. Had I been using an M100 things may have been different. Ended up getting a Trace Elliot 4x12 and running two 16 ohm UK V30's detuned with my 60 watt head, more volume and punch.

Selling that cab, in hindsight, was foolish. It just needed moar powah! :uzi:
 
If you can find them, they made some 65s with aluminum dust caps like JBLs, and also with these weird ‘wizzer’ cones. I think they are talked about on the Bygone Tones site. Bizarre
G12-65 are cursed for me. I bought that 'wizzer' cones at first attemp to reach them. I think its called 'twin cone'. Oh god, sold them almost for free. Second pair was some re-cones with no rubbing cones, sounded dull. 3rd trial was succesful, all original 4x12 from mid 80's. Sounded good but it was not quite a match with Friedman Smallbox I had at time. I heard few of them thru the years. I use G12-65 for home 1x12, one of the best low volume speaker. Heritage version is great because of consistency, sound great too, not so dull, not so bright as some revisions mentioned before.
How different are G12-80 cabs ?
 
G12-65 are cursed for me. I bought that 'wizzer' cones at first attemp to reach them. I think its called 'twin cone'. Oh god, sold them almost for free. Second pair was some re-cones with no rubbing cones, sounded dull. 3rd trial was succesful, all original 4x12 from mid 80's. Sounded good but it was not quite a match with Friedman Smallbox I had at time. I heard few of them thru the years. I use G12-65 for home 1x12, one of the best low volume speaker. Heritage version is great because of consistency, sound great too, not so dull, not so bright as some revisions mentioned before.
How different are G12-80 cabs ?
I’ve had 2 JCM 800 cabs with the G12 80s and what I remember is they are a bit more neutral sounding compared to a 65 cab. Deeper lows and good mids, highs but less mids than a 65. They weren’t that far off though. Lows were tighter too.
 
I've played at least two old G12-65 Marshall cabs and have owned the Heritage reissues. There was a huge space of time between trying all that stuff out and all the guitars/amps were different but my recollection is that maybe, the old ones were a tad more open and bold sounding. That is also to say the Heritage ones broke up a bit more with a touch more compression. I can't be sure but that's what my faded memory tells me.
 
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I had two WGS ET65's loaded into a 4x12 with two Scumback M65 Pulsonic clone greenbacks and the WGS mixed well with the Scumbacks. I didn't t hate the WGS by any means at all they were very complimentary of one another.

I have never heard a full 4x12 cabinet with the Heritage G1265 but the 8 ohm one in my 1x2 combo amp screams nice mids and a somewhat rolled off top end but almost perfect for any Marshall style amp IMHO and possibly an SLO where you want a greenback vibe but with power handling capability I don't think one can go wrong with the Heritage G1265.:2thumbsup:
Celestion G12-65 speaker.jpg

I bought a used Celestion Heritage G12-65 off of the local Craig's List for $120 used and installed it in my Reverend Kingsnake 1x12 combo amp. The amp originally had a Jensen Neo 12-100 100 watt speaker in it. It was lightweight, tight in the bass (good), but found it to be bright when I played it overdriven since I use the amp as a clean pedal platform. Buying & installing the Celestion Heritage G12-65 speaker gave my amp more mids & darker high end that is pleasant to play through on the amp and hear onstage with the band.

Guitar George
 
There’s over 30 different T types when it comes to 65s. I’ve had 2 1979 slants with 3120s, an 82 cab with 3054s and an 83 with 3101s. The only difference between them is the 3120 has extended highs, and the 3101 is looser in the lows being bass cones.
The Heritage is a great repro of the og 65 that seems to sit between the brighter 3120 and the darker 3054.
 
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