Computer Guitar Rig

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Jack Luminous said:
If Neural DSP stuff has trouble running on a modern computer then maybe they are accurately simulating the nuclear power plant feeding the power grid itself feeding the modeled amp for a more realistic experience. Or maybe they don't know what they are doing. I wouldn't rely on such software experts for my live gigs in any case.

Indeed, if DMX, midi clicks, backing tracks etc. are to be handled by the same hardware as the guitar rig then a computer is the only possible solution. For my own pleasure, I'd keep the DMX/clicks/backing tracks/whatever firmly separate from my guitar rig.

A 4 years old used Dell and a low end Focusrite interface is a cheap solution but not the same thing at all as a MacBook and an Apollo interface.
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It doesn't have trouble, you can select high or regular mode. It's just in high mode is designed for more high end CPUs. They do know what they are doing, they respected and used by thousands of musicians. Don't immediately dismiss something you don't understand.

The Dell and Focusrite sounded no different from the Macbook and Apollo. Both ran the whole week without issue.

I'll happily make up a video showing how to do it using an old laptop and a Focusrite I have here. Fun wee evening project.
 
I've been at it for a long time, creating software, playing guitar in different contexts, recording etc. I do know what I know and what I like. Please don't assume what I do understand, we don't have to agree, it's totally OK.
 
Jack Luminous said:
I've been at it for a long time, creating software, playing guitar in different contexts, recording etc. I do know what I know and what I like. Please don't assume what I do understand, we don't have to agree, it's totally OK.
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I didn't assume, you discouraged people with negative assumtions. So I felt it best to correct some of those assumptions with real world examples. Also so @rsm isn't put of by the negativity and just gives up, as you recommended.

"It's still time to give up before it's too late. Anymore effort in that direction will lead to more aggravation." - This just isn't helpful, nor inspiring, nor is it true. Plenty people do it fine. It's a fantastic solution for people with limited space, budget etc.

"Or maybe they don't know what they are doing." - This shows ignorance. Neural are fantastic engineers and amp nerds. Their work speaks for itself.

Nolly-amps.png
 
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ghosty999 said:
I didn't assume, you discouraged people with negative assumtions. So I felt it best to correct some of those assumptions with real world examples. Also so @rsm isn't put of by the negativity and just gives up, as you recommended.

"It's still time to give up before it's too late. Anymore effort in that direction will lead to more aggravation." - This just isn't helpful, nor inspiring, nor is it true. Plenty people do it fine. It's a fantastic solution for people with limited space, budget etc.

"Or maybe they don't know what they are doing." - This shows ignorance. Neural are fantastic engineers and amp nerds. Their work speaks for itself.

Nolly-amps.png
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It was negative in your opinion, positive for me because I thought I would help him avoid time and money consuming mistakes. Feel free to disagree. "Fantastic solution for people with limited space, budget etc.". OP didn't write about limited space or budget in his first post. Usually, heavy constraints don't lead to "fantastic" solutions, more like whatever works.

Lastly, your opinion about Neural DSP is what it is. Mine may differ. If a guitar amp sim outgrows current modern procs computing power, maybe something's amiss somewhere and I would add that it indeed speaks for itself, not in a positive way. YMMV, depending on your own experience in signal processing, software development, electronic circuit modeling and simulation etc.
 
Jack Luminous said:
It was negative in your opinion, positive for me because I thought I would help him avoid time and money consuming mistakes. Feel free to disagree. "Fantastic solution for people with limited space, budget etc.". OP didn't write about limited space or budget in his first post. Usually, heavy constraints don't lead to "fantastic" solutions, more like whatever works.

Lastly, your opinion about Neural DSP is what it is. Mine may differ. If a guitar amp sim outgrows current modern procs computing power, maybe something's amiss somewhere and I would add that it indeed speaks for itself, not in a positive way. YMMV, depending on your own experience in signal processing, software development, electronic circuit modeling and simulation etc.
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In my opinion, telling RSM to "give up" on something plenty of people do, kinda feels negative. The hobby should be about trying new things and innovating with guitar tech. I'm sure some people told Eddie to "give up" on his technical endeavors and he uckily ignored them.

With NDSP at 16 block and 48k on an older PC, just flip to normal and it works fine. I'm sure you'd feel it unjustified for someone who's never seen your software work to say "they probably don't know what they are doing." If something was a "amiss," the reddit with 12k users would be on it like a hawk haha.

If this is just a covert way of saying you don't like amp sims, that's totally chill. My opinion is I don't like them either. I like big complex racks, but I'm curious if you'd encourage me to not mess with them because they are also expensive, time consuming and frustrating? ;)
 
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If 12K reddit users are perfectly happy with bloated software, more power to them. I've got nothing against amp sims. I'd rather gig with a proper hardware DSP guitar device, be it Fractal/Line6/Hotone/whatever suits your taste than a laptop running plugins with an usb interface. Am I allowed to continue thinking that a laptop running plugins as an electric guitar gigging rig is a bad idea despite your opposite opinion ? I'd rather use ad hoc hardware, that's all. Nothing wrong with that. That was my advice basically. Involving EVH in the argument won't change my mind LOL I like big racks too.
 
Jack Luminous said:
If 12K reddit users are perfectly happy with bloated software, more power to them. I've got nothing against amp sims. I'd rather gig with a proper hardware DSP guitar device, be it Fractal/Line6/Hotone/whatever suits your taste than a laptop running plugins with an usb interface. Am I allowed to continue thinking that a laptop running plugins as an electric guitar gigging rig is a bad idea despite your opposite opinion ? I'd rather use ad hoc hardware, that's all. Nothing wrong with that. That was my advice basically. Involving EVH in the argument won't change my mind LOL I like big racks too.
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You can think that, I also think that. My objection was telling RSM not bother, then making assumptions about software you haven't tried ;)
 
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ghosty999 said:
Neural are fantastic engineers and amp nerds. Their work speaks for itself.
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I demo'ed their Mesa Boogie amp sim recently, and though it wasn't for me, it was pretty convincing sounding !
 
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PLX said:
I demo'ed their Mesa Boogie amp sim recently, and though it wasn't for me, it was pretty convincing sounding !
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I feel the same. There is just something about amp sims I struggle with. I always get way to much low end I can't dial out without an external EQ. Then the latency... A Fractal is 1ms rountrip which I'm too used to.
 
ghosty999 said:
I feel the same. There is just something about amp sims I struggle with. I always get way to much low end I can't dial out without an external EQ. Then the latency... A Fractal is 1ms rountrip which I'm too used to.
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I've been trying amp sims and modelers for about 20 years now, and can say they are getting better.
 
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PLX said:
I've been trying amp sims and modelers for about 20 years now, and can say they are getting better.
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100%. I opened up Guitar Rig 3 in an ancient project and it sounded like a can of bees. I'd still take an AxeFX Standard over most plugins.
 
update on the computer rig. The device I purchased to deal with the noise didn't work for my guitar rig but it's good to have.

It seems it's only some of my high gain lead patches in my PolyChrome DSP McRocklin Suite plugin that have excessive noise.

The solution is to use my Blue Cat Audio PatchWork vst host app, and put a noise gate in front of the PolyChrome patches that have too much noise. Worked like a charm. Even my son said it sounded good - no easy feat!

My Neural DSP Archetype Petrucci and Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite don't have the noise issue.

This rig is working great...


...until I plugged into my Marshall tube amp.

Seriously tho, the computer rig is working great for me, but it's not a tube amp it's a modeling rig. Once I remember this, it works even better.
 
All in, It's under $1500 for this rig. Not finding the components on Amazon now which is strange?!

I already had most of the cables and the KMI SoftStep2 ($369 now, but I paid much less years ago, new), and pedals (wah, volume and expression - around $100 each). So another $40 in cables.

It was around $85 for the 12" touchscreen monitor, and around $329 for the Intel core i5, 16GM RAM, 512GB SSD, Windows 11 Pro.

I got the PolyChromeDSP McRocklin Suite for $99, and Blue Cat Audio PatchWork for $99 which I already owned.

edit: I forgot to include the USB-C Audio Interface: Arturia MiniFuse 1, $99.

So everything above is around $1,400 if I had to buy it all today.

The Neural DSP plugins are extra, as I planned to use only the PolyChromeDSP McRocklin Suite for all the sounds. The noise required use of my PatchWork (already owned).
 
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ghosty999 said:
I feel the same. There is just something about amp sims I struggle with. I always get way to much low end I can't dial out without an external EQ. Then the latency... A Fractal is 1ms rountrip which I'm too used to.
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Finally this computer rig is working (see prior posts above). I'm not experiencing any noticeable latency, but the feel and responsiveness isn't there.

That said, with the noise issue identified and managed, this computer rig is very usable for me. The Neural DSP plugins, which don't need the external noise gate, work great too.

For each of my PolyChromeDSP patches with excessive noise, I'm fine-tuning the external noise gate, and creating patches in BCA PatchWork. I have my lead patches and my high gain rhythm patches made, though still tweaking here and there.

Mission (almost) accomplished.
 
Here's the rig:

Mini-PC, wireless keyboard, audio interface...into the mixer

computer-audio-interface.JPG



USB-C touchscreen, running Neural DSP Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite

touchscreen2.JPG




Not shown: KMI SoftStep2, EHX wah, volume and expression pedals.
 
Putting this computer rig into a 2U rack case; looking for a 1U sliding rack shelf, ordered one it had rear rack tabs so didn't fit; ordered another without rear rack tabs and it's backordered until October.

Here's the Gator 2U rack case,

Amazon.com: Gator Cases Portable 2U Rack Bag with 14 Rackable Depth; (GRB- 2U) : Musical Instruments
 
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