Crash course on forming chords.....

[Dallas Marlow]

thank you man, I know all of that thankfully I just need to learn the more complex stuff theory wise......like triads, scales, modes, etc etc.

I think I'm going to take guitar online lessons with Carl Roa.

Sweet man, anyone that studied with Randall Dollohan is going to be a good person to learn from, out of all the systems I've seen for scales, chords, sight reading and general guitar knowledge his makes the most sense to me!

I know this might sound very elementary and might not apply to anyone else, but one of my biggest weaknesses that continues to hamstring me is in fretboard memorization, knowing what every note is on each string up and down the fretboard just by looking at it, then all the positions of the chords up and down the fretboard, then what scales the chords are derrived from, at least thats where I am at. I should have learned this a long time ago.

I'll be the first to admit I struggle with it every day still. I'm a self taught player that's back at school to learn all this stuff, and it's killing me because when I play I think sounds. When my hand on a scale I'm thinking about oh I know if I go here I can get this sound etc., etc., while this is good sometimes, it's not good for a lot of things.

I know what the notes are more solid in some spots than others, like some I instantly know and others it takes a second to kick in, it's kind of like I'm taking two sides of knowledge and combining them which is taking its time... for me at least.

I'm getting there though, playing through chord changes with good voice leading and transitions, I refuse to quit till I can know what the fuck I am doing 100% of the time!

My post disappeared?

long story, short. I have a GIT grad schooling me on this, he's the one that’s guiding me on building my foundation of knowledge up and showing me how it works in the real world aka practical application. For me, boiling it all down takes large blocks of time, not something you do right once or twice and then you've got it. Its a lot like learning calculus, stringing polynomials together, every bracket, every parenthetical has to be in the right place before it adds up into something beautiful. Thanks Dallas

Thats the same way I feel man, it's just a lot of information you have to tie together and it takes a TON of time, repetition and practice, and literally breaking your self away from your old habits, I kind of had a break through moment the other day when I was listening to something and heard a D minor coming and was focusing on chord tones inherently which I thought was really cool because for the first time I associated the sound I wanted to create with note names at the same time!

There are a lot of guys out there that have a lot of "facility" on the instrument as my teacher calls it, but that honestly rarely means most of them actually know what they are playing. There are the really elite upper level of guitar players that are really clear as to what they are doing with every move, but I feel that's a very small percentage. Even some of the greats have no idea what they have been doing for their entire careers, and there is NOTHING wrong with that in my opinion. I just feel for me personally I want to be able to take it to that next level you know? At the end of the day if you can record amazing guitar, rhythm, finger picking, riffs, leads and you don't know a damn thing more power to those guys! I'm one of them still and trying to break out of it!

Haha not sure why your thanking me bud but your welcome! I feel like it's a guitar support group!

Just keep at it man you'll nail it in time! (at least thats what I keep telling my self!)

Dallas

 

[Jimmie]

Haha not sure why your thanking me bud but your welcome! I feel like it's a guitar support group!

Just keep at it man you'll nail it in time! (at least thats what I keep telling my self!)

Dallas

We need a twelve step program; "Hi, I'm Jimmie, am a struggling musician and I need help"

 

[Dallas Marlow]

Haha not sure why your thanking me bud but your welcome! I feel like it's a guitar support group!

Just keep at it man you'll nail it in time! (at least thats what I keep telling my self!)

Dallas

We need a twelve step program; "Hi, I'm Jimmie, am a struggling musician and I need help"

Haha, this I could do!

 

[Jimmie]

Haha not sure why your thanking me bud but your welcome! I feel like it's a guitar support group!

Just keep at it man you'll nail it in time! (at least thats what I keep telling my self!)

Dallas

We need a twelve step program; "Hi, I'm Jimmie, am a struggling musician and I need help"

Haha, this I could do!

Any night except mondays, the kids have Tae Kwan Do classes.

 

[sinfish]

The big thing for me was to stop refering to fret/string numbers like tab had taught me. Always use the note names and you will start to see chord shapes, inversions, & relative chords. It also helps you to identify the notes that color the chord. In the long run 12 notes are alot easier to navigate than 144 fret positions on the fretboard(24). Therory was created with the piano. It's easier to get a handle on interval formulas and chords when sitting in front of one. Once you start to get it apply it to the guitar.

It helps too if you trascribe your music with software just force yourself to use notation instead of tab.

Here is a good fretboard trainer for when you have no guitar around.
http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/fretboardwarrior.html

 

[Dallas Marlow]

The big thing for me was to stop refering to fret/string numbers like tab had taught me. Always use the note names and you will start to see chord shapes, inversions, & relative chords. It also helps you to identify the notes that color the chord. In the long run 12 notes are alot easier to navigate than 144 fret positions on the fretboard(24). Therory was created with the piano. It's easier to get a handle on interval formulas and chords when sitting in front of one. Once you start to get it apply it to the guitar.

It helps too if you trascribe your music with software just force yourself to use notation instead of tab.

Here is a good fretboard trainer for when you have no guitar around.
http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/fretboardwarrior.html

Haha I tell people this all the time, playing guitar is like visualizing 6 pianos at once!

 

[dfrattaroli]

Note to self: Schedule that damn lesson with Carl!!!

 

[Jimmie]

Note to self: Schedule that damn lesson with Carl!!!

I need to get one of those steel edged rulers and hand it to my teacher, behavior modification is the only thing I haven't tried yet.

 

[kasperjensen]

It's all been covered in here... Just trying to explain my thought process, if it should help.

When I looked at that chord, I presumed the bottom note, D, to be the root (1).

Next I visualize the D Major scale from that particular fret. D. E. F*. G. A. B. C*. D.

With that in mind, I find that the next note is an F*. Since this is the natural 3rd, I know the chord is a Major.

Next note is a C*, which is the natural 7th. I now know it's a Major 7th.

Then comes an E, which is the 2nd, but an octave up. In this particular case, it's the second note played when repeating the Major scale, an octave above the root note of the chord. Now instead of it being counted again from 1, that scale is counted from 8 (8 being the root note an octave up). So it's:

8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 (root again) which corresponds to:
1...2...3.....4...5....6....7....8

Therefore I know it to be a natural 9th.

This is a note that is considered to be "added", as it's not something you would normally associate with the particular chord. Hence: add 9

Put all this together and you got:

D maj7 add 9

 

[glpg80]

It's all been covered in here... Just trying to explain my thought process, if it should help.

When I looked at that chord, I presumed the bottom note, D, to be the root (1).

Next I visualize the D Major scale from that particular fret. D. E. F*. G. A. B. C*. D.

With that in mind, I find that the next note is an F*. Since this is the natural 3rd, I know the chord is a Major.

Next note is a C*, which is the natural 7th. I now know it's a Major 7th.

Then comes an E, which is the 2nd, but an octave up. In this particular case, it's the second note played when repeating the Major scale, an octave above the root note of the chord. Now instead of it being counted again from 1, that scale is counted from 8 (8 being the root note an octave up). So it's:

8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 (root again) which corresponds to:
1...2...3.....4...5....6....7....8

Therefore I know it to be a natural 9th.

This is a note that is considered to be "added", as it's not something you would normally associate with the particular chord. Hence: add 9

Put all this together and you got:

D maj7 add 9

very well explained, thanks for sharing

 

[degenaro]

lots of good info...some added stuff and corrections...

Basic harmony and minor keys...
It is not the relative of major...for that most time you will just see it as a major/mode thereof seeing that dorian and phrygian is just as much minor as aeolian (natural) minor.
When writing in minor...and this is where the dominant V chord comes from we're talking harmonic or melodic minor (ascending)...
Then the scale harmonizes like this...
Harm.Min.
i m/mj7
ii m7b5
III mj7#5 (aug)
iv m7
V 7(b9)
VI mj7
vii dim

in Mel Min
i m/mj7 or m6
ii m7
III mj7#5
IV 7(b5#11)
V 7(#5)
vi m7b5
vii m7b5


As for the OP's question yes the most obvious choice for the chord is Dmj9, and no it MOST CERTAINLY is not an add9. Add9 denotes a triad (major or minor) without the 7 that adds the 9. The absence of the 5 (A) doesn't ever matter since harmonically speaking the note is the first to go and won't change a thing.

As for stuff to work on, if you have a handle on the major scale and it's degrees, how they relate and how the non scale tones relate (to the V chord) then you're on your way.
Also that particular voicing for me doubles as a nice E13 grip.

 

[glpg80]

so if its not an add9 then what is the e in that chord then? its not a root since the root is the D and the third is the F# if im understanding this correctly?

 

[degenaro]

so if its not an add9 then what is the e in that chord then? its not a root since the root is the D and the third is the F# if im understanding this correctly?

It's a Dmaj9. If you have a 7th chord (which it is because of the c#) then you throw the 9 on top it's a maj9. You add the 9 to a triad without the 7 you get an add9 chord.

When you extent the chord, no add, when you add without extending the previous note...add9.

 

[glpg80]

so if its not an add9 then what is the e in that chord then? its not a root since the root is the D and the third is the F# if im understanding this correctly?

It's a Dmaj9. If you have a 7th chord (which it is because of the c#) then you throw the 9 on top it's a maj9. You add the 9 to a triad without the 7 you get an add9 chord.

When you extent the chord, no add, when you add without extending the previous note...add9.

that seems to be really confusing to most everyone here on the forum including myself, didnt know this at all

so if you wanted to add13 to a d chord you would not play the 5th, 7th, or 9th, or 11th and only hit the 13th degree which would be the same as hitting a 5th on this example chord which would be what?

 

[degenaro]

so if its not an add9 then what is the e in that chord then? its not a root since the root is the D and the third is the F# if im understanding this correctly?

It's a Dmaj9. If you have a 7th chord (which it is because of the c#) then you throw the 9 on top it's a maj9. You add the 9 to a triad without the 7 you get an add9 chord.

When you extent the chord, no add, when you add without extending the previous note...add9.

that seems to be really confusing to most everyone here on the forum including myself, didnt know this at all

so if you wanted to add13 to a d chord you would not play the 5th, 7th, or 9th, or 11th and only hit the 13th degree which would be the same as hitting a 5th on this example chord which would be what?

Add means you technically have 1-3-5 and then the one extension named in the add moniker.
Add 1-3-13...is the same as 1-3-6, which is a 6 chord.

As for leaving the 5 out...when you wanna get technical about this since you can only play 6 notes at a time on guitar when you go have a "real" 13...which is 1-3-5-b7-9-11-13 you got 7 notes, impossible on guitar so then the 5 goes first.
Also look at common voicings for dom 7 chords... 1-b7-3 or 1-3-b7...next to go is the root since chances are the bass player will take care of that. Now in order to play a dom 7 all you need is 3-b7 or b7-3. A typical tritone.
Also most of the time you will hear 3 and 4 note chords that can be seen/heard as a number of things. For example
e-g-b...
the b3-5-b7 of an E m
the 3-5-7 a C major7
the 6-1-3 of a G6
the 5-b7-9 of an Am9
the 9-11-13 of a D13
the 7-9-#11 of a Fmaj9#11 stretching here...

and now the fun begins...
the #9-b5-b7 of C#7alt
the b5-13-b9 of Bb13alt
the b9-3-#5 of Eb7alt

etc...

 

[kasperjensen]

Aha... I never knew that. I just assumed it to be an add9... Since well... Same chord with an added note. Thanks for clearing that up.

So in this case, if it had been D F# A E... Then it's a Dadd9?

And a Dmajor7add9 doesn't exist? It would be a Dmajor7 9? Since add can't exist if a 7th is present?

I am still waiting for the penny to drop on this one... I am I will wake up in the middle of the night and have it all figured out

 

[degenaro]

Aha... I never knew that. I just assumed it to be an add9... Since well... Same chord with an added note. Thanks for clearing that up.

So in this case, if it had been D F# A E... Then it's a Dadd9?

And a Dmajor7add9 doesn't exist? It would be a Dmajor7 9? Since add can't exist if a 7th is present?

I am still waiting for the penny to drop on this one... I am I will wake up in the middle of the night and have it all figured out

Yup...d,f#,a,e=D add9
add the 7+9 the name is Dmajor7 with the 9 becomes Dmajor9...assumes to have the 7 when it isn't called add9.

 

[kasperjensen]

Aha... I never knew that. I just assumed it to be an add9... Since well... Same chord with an added note. Thanks for clearing that up.

So in this case, if it had been D F# A E... Then it's a Dadd9?

And a Dmajor7add9 doesn't exist? It would be a Dmajor7 9? Since add can't exist if a 7th is present?

I am still waiting for the penny to drop on this one... I am I will wake up in the middle of the night and have it all figured out

Yup...d,f#,a,e=D add9
add the 7+9 the name is Dmajor7 with the 9 becomes Dmajor9...assumes to have the 7 when it isn't called add9.

Gotcha

 

[mark520]

The good news is with a guitar, you really do not understand all of music theory in order to become a great player ....... there are so many amazing guitar guitarist (past and present) can not even begin to tell you what is the key, the scale of , pattern, they are given chords ..... just know that it sounds great! However, the greatest guitarist IMO has a good deal, "Mode"and the mode in the entire fingerboard ..... although they may not understand the theory behind all this.

 

[70strathead]

so if its not an add9 then what is the e in that chord then? its not a root since the root is the D and the third is the F# if im understanding this correctly?

It's a Dmaj9. If you have a 7th chord (which it is because of the c#) then you throw the 9 on top it's a maj9. You add the 9 to a triad without the 7 you get an add9 chord.

When you extent the chord, no add, when you add without extending the previous note...add9.

i agree with this. Cmaj9 was what i picked out as well. learning and memorizing all the triads to minor/major chords is what helped me see the fretboard better, then expanding on intervals. i actually discovered that learning key signatures >chords/arpeggios helped me visualize easier and retain better more than modes/scales. so many approaches u can take and great tips on this thread.