Dave....what EL34's are reliable today? JJ's still junk?

[rallye440]

Tungsol EL34B's are great sounding, and pretty rugged. I really dig the JJ KT77's too. I've not had an issue with them in 10 years, in NUMEROUS amps, and my tube of choice for some nice chunk, and aggressive tones. Great harmonics too. I've had them in 3 Friedmans, a Helios 50, Quick Rod, Competition, Engl Artist Edition, and Retro, JSX's, XXX's, they always delivered for me.

I have only twice tried Tungsol EL34B's and that is enough for me. The first quartet redplated at ~490V plate voltage (bias was set at 32 mA) and smoked the OT of my WZRD MTL clone. No problem with JJ EL34 II's after replacing the OT. Seems that JJ's can handle the higher voltage better than Tungsol.

The second set of Tungsol's has survived a year now in my 2204 with lower plate voltage at 450V but I'm little cautious about them and wouldn't put a set in again for amps with high B+.

 

[RACKSYSTEMS]

Anyone know if the NOS Siemens/RFT EL34's will survive a Smallbox's plate voltage? Biased at 32mv.

yeah just fine

 

[tlp1234]

Thank you for all that.

No more TAD EL34B-STR's for me. My last 2 sets lived short lives. Even though they were biased on the lower end of their operating range. I could be wrong on this, but I understand they come from the Shuguang factory where production of tubes has been shuttered.

I find buying tubes this past year has been a crap shoot. Just the way it is sometimes. I can only imagine what a PIA it is for Friedman.

I've got an old set of Mesa branded STR's in my SB50 at the moment. We'll see how they hold up.

I've got a set of JJ's coming from AES. We'll see how that gamble works out.

I'm left with doing my own testing (if you can call it that) letting these things burn a while in the amps I use the most. Especially the Wizards where they'll get harsh treatment. If they live in those a while, then they should live in my others as well.

I'm going to start pulling them after a good hard 20 or so hours, and hang onto them as spares.

Oh well.....I suppose we're lucky to even be able to buy something as ancient as vacuum tubes anymore.

When you factor in the differences in peoples hearing, and the inconsistency in vacuum tube mfr's,...........getting tubes I can be relatively satisfied with long to moderate term seems impossible lately for me.

I'll have to lower my standards.

Developing a stash of my own good pulls. The Mesa branded EL34's have survived over 45 hours of gig use at moderately high amp volume in SB50. Also two of JJ's sets I recently got from Antique Electronic Supply. The JJ's were cheap enough.

I'm not the guitar-amp-electronics expert-guru, just someone who knows the basics from being a ham radio op for over 40yrs. That experience helps. Back in 1976, the FCC didn't publish all exam element questions and answers like I they do now. You actually had to understand the material to pass the test. Same for the commercial First Class Radiotelephone OP test which I passed back in 1977 at the FCC office in downtown Dallas, TX. We built and maintained more of our own gear then.

I will say I don't trust the spec sheets these tube sellers & resellers have on their sites, so I just set power tube bias as low as possible where the amps still sounds good to my ears.

In some respects, sometimes I believe all of us (myself absolutely included) are moronic to be hanging onto this god damned ancient bullshit vacuum tube technology with a death grip in the 21st century.

 

[Nigel]

In some respects, sometimes I believe all of us (myself absolutely included) are moronic to be hanging onto this god damned ancient bullshit vacuum tube technology with a death grip in the 21st century.

Dispense with this blasphemy! ?

 

[hellzington]

I've been re-tubing a lot of my amps since I bought most of them used, all EL-34 so far.

I managed to get my hands on a few matched quads of NOS TAD EL34-B STR's from a friend. They sound ok in my Marshalls and Friedmans, but I don't love them. Yes, the treble is very detailed but almost brittle and sharp. These tubes sound kind of "crispy." They also tighten up the amp quite a bit, which I don't feel like my Marshalls or Friedmans need. The only one of those amps I liked them in was my JCM 800. Now in my Mesa Rev F Dual Recto, they sound amazing. Exactly what that amp needed: a tighter low end, a little dip in the low mids, and some good, detailed treble. That thing sounds insane with them. Huge improvement. The amp sounds like a weird, fun Marshall now. Very cool sound. I don't do much downtuning but I could also definitely see a world in which guitarists who are doing a lot of downtuning would like these tubes to keep everything tight and sharp.

In my Marshalls and Friedmans I greatly prefer the Groove Tube EL34-M's. I got ones rated 5's and 6's. They sound perfect in my old Marshalls. They brought out what the TADs were hiding in my '87 Jubilee (tasty mids, friends) and my '86 JCM 800 2204 fills out nicely with them, giving it exactly the mid hump and softer treble that amp needs. Overall, the GT's give a more round, warm sound than the TADs. The mids are raised a bit and very rich in harmonic content. The bottom is a little bigger and looser (but in a good way) and the high end is softer and smoother. Great for Marshalls. My Smallbox also sounds glorious with these tubes. In fact, the way I discovered them is that the previous owner had put a pair of them in my SB. I was wondering what made that amp sound so good; now I know: it was those GT EL34-M's. They're great.

Finally, in some amps I like the small bottle EL34's. Currently I have ones from Electro Harmonix and Mesa/Boogie, but I think they're actually made by the same factory. The BE-100 Deluxe sounds awesome with the little EH 34's. It makes the amp a bit brighter and keeps the lows very tight while producing some good upper midrange content. I also use small bottle Mesa/Boogie EL34 STR 447's in my vertical input '84 JCM 800 2204 that was modded in '85 by Lee Jackson at Metaltronix. After my experience with TADs helping out the big low end in my Recto, I expected this amp to sound good with the TADs because it actually has a lot of bass (Lee says to never raise it over four; I leave it at zero), but unfortunately it didn't tighten up the bottom end the way I had hoped. I also thought the little mid scoop would help on this amp because it has such powerful mids, but I just didn't like the way it sounded with those tubes. The amp was almost too fizzy and it got very wild with a bad-sounding gain when you cranked the power section. I put another set of Mesa EL34 STR 447's and it was back to being awesome. You know what they say: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Erbo1808]

I've been re-tubing a lot of my amps since I bought most of them used, all EL-34 so far.

I managed to get my hands on a few matched quads of NOS TAD EL34-B STR's from a friend. They sound ok in my Marshalls and Friedmans, but I don't love them. Yes, the treble is very detailed but almost brittle and sharp. These tubes sound kind of "crispy." They also tighten up the amp quite a bit, which I don't feel like my Marshalls or Friedmans need. The only one of those amps I liked them in was my JCM 800. Now in my Mesa Rev F Dual Recto, they sound amazing. Exactly what that amp needed: a tighter low end, a little dip in the low mids, and some good, detailed treble. That thing sounds insane with them. Huge improvement. The amp sounds like a weird, fun Marshall now. Very cool sound. I don't do much downtuning but I could also definitely see a world in which guitarists who are doing a lot of downtuning would like these tubes to keep everything tight and sharp.

In my Marshalls and Friedmans I greatly prefer the Groove Tube EL34-M's. I got ones rated 5's and 6's. They sound perfect in my old Marshalls. They brought out what the TADs were hiding in my '87 Jubilee (tasty mids, friends) and my '86 JCM 800 2204 fills out nicely with them, giving it exactly the mid hump and softer treble that amp needs. Overall, the GT's give a more round, warm sound than the TADs. The mids are raised a bit and very rich in harmonic content. The bottom is a little bigger and looser (but in a good way) and the high end is softer and smoother. Great for Marshalls. My Smallbox also sounds glorious with these tubes. In fact, the way I discovered them is that the previous owner had put a pair of them in my SB. I was wondering what made that amp sound so good; now I know: it was those GT EL34-M's. They're great.

Finally, in some amps I like the small bottle EL34's. Currently I have ones from Electro Harmonix and Mesa/Boogie, but I think they're actually made by the same factory. The BE-100 Deluxe sounds awesome with the little EH 34's. It makes the amp a bit brighter and keeps the lows very tight while producing some good upper midrange content. I also use small bottle Mesa/Boogie EL34 STR 447's in my vertical input '84 JCM 800 2204 that was modded in '85 by Lee Jackson at Metaltronix. After my experience with TADs helping out the big low end in my Recto, I expected this amp to sound good with the TADs because it actually has a lot of bass (Lee says to never raise it over four; I leave it at zero), but unfortunately it didn't tighten up the bottom end the way I had hoped. I also thought the little mid scoop would help on this amp because it has such powerful mids, but I just didn't like the way it sounded with those tubes. The amp was almost too fizzy and it got very wild with a bad-sounding gain when you cranked the power section. I put another set of Mesa EL34 STR 447's and it was back to being awesome. You know what they say: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Hello hellz,
Thanks for your post, I own a be100dlx but really don't know nothing about tubes. Here in Paris France, the only amp repair shop works with JJ tubes exclusively... So when I read the posts here, i think I have to search myself the best tubes for my babe100dlx.
Can you tell me the best tubes that I have to find for it ? The little EH34's seems to be great, what about the 12ax7 ? Do I have to replace it all ?
And where can I found them ? Any reliable website ?
Thanks a lot to all !

Éric

Ps : I prefer the BE and clean channel over the HBE, only cause I'm a hard/rock/blues player and less metal guy
The dirty shirley is one of my fav, but I sold it to get the be100dlx, and now waiting for the twin sister here in paris (Dave do something for the poor frenchs !! We are waiting since a year now -->> "l'ampli à lampe" shop in paris France)

 

[hellzington]

Hello hellz,
Thanks for your post, I own a be100dlx but really don't know nothing about tubes. Here in Paris France, the only amp repair shop works with JJ tubes exclusively... So when I read the posts here, i think I have to search myself the best tubes for my babe100dlx.
Can you tell me the best tubes that I have to find for it ? The little EH34's seems to be great, what about the 12ax7 ? Do I have to replace it all ?
And where can I found them ? Any reliable website ?
Thanks a lot to all !

Éric

Ps : I prefer the BE and clean channel over the HBE, only cause I'm a hard/rock/blues player and less metal guy
The dirty shirley is one of my fav, but I sold it to get the be100dlx, and now waiting for the twin sister here in paris (Dave do something for the poor frenchs !! We are waiting since a year now -->> "l'ampli à lampe" shop in paris France)

Hey Erbo,

You're very lucky to live in Paris. I've been there many times for work. It's such a wonderful, charming city.

I don't have any experience with JJ tubes but my feeling from people on this board is that they are a little unreliable right now. If you want to try something different, I would just order yourself some tubes. I suggest Antique Electronic Supply or Tube Amp Doctor. They are based here in the USA but I think they ship internationally.

In my BE-100 I like the small bottle Electro Harmonix EL34's or the Groove Tube EL34-M. I've had two sets of EH EL34's, one rated at 36 and one at 39 plate current. Both sounded great. The Groove Tubes only come in matched pairs, not matched quads. I'd suggest a power rating of 5 or 6 on those.

You don't have to replace your 12AX7's very often. Preamp tubes wear differently than power tubes. They do wear out, but it takes a very long time (years and years). I'd stick with what Dave put in your amp unless your BE is very old or you are a professional putting a lot of hours on your amp.

You should consider using the HBE channel for solos! It's great for hard rock and blues solos. Just dial the gain back a little on that channel and then set the master a little above the BE master. You'll get a nice volume and gain boost to take your solos over the top.

I have a Twin Sister and it's super great. You're going to love it. It has a lot more highs and lows than the BE, with a slightly more scooped midrange. It sounds best with lower or vintage output pickups. I've found Alnico 2 pickups really sing with that amp. The response under your fingers is different too because of the tube rectification. It's a great amp, I love mine.

 

[Erbo1808]

Thank you so much hellzington !!
You helped me a lot !
I will check those web sites

If I understand correctly, I have to find 2 sets of matched EH EL34's, each rated between 36 and 39 plate current ? With power rating 5 or 6 ?
Do I need to bias something ? Or is it "plug and play" like some other amps ?

Thanks for the tips about 12Ax7...

Moreover, you're right, Paris is the world best city !! ...Except for the garbage everywhere, the homeless, the street noises, the huge traffic, the strikes and manifestations every sathurday, the insecur feeling, the expensive life, and the incompetent mayor !
Happily, wine and food are great

Cheers !
Éric

 

[hellzington]

Thank you so much hellzington !!
You helped me a lot !
I will check those web sites

If I understand correctly, I have to find 2 sets of matched EH EL34's, each rated between 36 and 39 plate current ? With power rating 5 or 6 ?
Do I need to bias something ? Or is it "plug and play" like some other amps ?

Thanks for the tips about 12Ax7...

Moreover, you're right, Paris is the world best city !! ...Except for the garbage everywhere, the homeless, the street noises, the huge traffic, the strikes and manifestations every sathurday, the insecur feeling, the expensive life, and the incompetent mayor !
Happily, wine and food are great

Cheers !
Éric

If you go with the Electro Harmonix EL34's you can buy a matched quad. I believe only Apex does the matching. So whoever you buy from, Apex will have done the matching before they reached the retailer. If you want to specify the plate current, you can call Antique Electronic Supply and they can find ones that are the closest.

If you go with the Groove Tube EL34-M's, then you will need two matched pairs. That's where I'd recommend the 5 or 6.

I believe the BE-100 Deluxe is a fixed bias amp, so it won't self-bias like some other amps (e.g., AFD 100). If you replace EH EL34's with another set of EH EL34's, I doubt you'll experience significant problems but if you want the amp to sound its best you should probably rebias it.