Diezel VH4 + Axe FX II

[Reiep]

you can only use the serial or parallel loop - not both.

AFAIK the VH4 has 2 loops, using one as serial and the second as parallel seems ok

but, don't forget the channel inserts with the VH4. depending on what you are talking about and if you have something for specific channels, you can use the insert loop(s) with the serial and parallel loops.

True dat

 

[QueenCityGuitars]

That's good to know, Reiep. Thank you! So, you'd suggest using the Axe FX in the parallel loop and signal effects in the serial loop? What if the signal effect is in your Axe FX? I'm guessing you can't partition the effects from one unit (some effects to the parallel and some to the serial loop). Is that right?

You can trick it this way :
Amp serial send -> Axe FX input -> "serial" effect -> Axe FX loop send -> Amp serial return -> Amp parallel send -> Axe FX loop return -> "parallel" effects -> Axe FX output -> Amp parallel return. It could work with some clever programming, but there may be risks of grounds loops and other unwanted noises.

The issue here is that the first send of the VH4 is not switchable, while the second is. We would want it the other way, in order to avoid a digital conversion when not needed. So a solution might be to have a true bypass midi switcher to make the first loop switchable.

So everything is possible, but it's getting complicated and expensive. It also depends which effects you're using, maybe there can be a workaround. Or maybe you'll put your Axe FX in the serial loop and be pleased this way, it has good converters.

Ugh...I'm starting to remember why I don't use effects!

I'm ready to dip my toe in the effects water but I'm afraid I may drown in that -> diagram. But what I think I hear you saying is: The Serial Loop sucks less tone because the Parallel Loop does an analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion. The problem is, the VH4 doesn't allow you to switch the Serial Loop on and off like you can the Parallel Loop. Do I have that right?

 

[QueenCityGuitars]

at any rate, a rack looper/switcher is what you need to use.

you can only use the serial or parallel loop - not both. but, don't forget the channel inserts with the VH4. depending on what you are talking about and if you have something for specific channels, you can use the insert loop(s) with the serial and parallel loops.

Okay, it's either the Serial Loop or the Parallel Loop; got it. How does the rack looper beneficial if you use an Axe FX Ultra in the Parallel Loop of a VH4? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm out of the loop. I know...bad joke.

Thanks again for the insight, everybody.

 

[steve_k]

at any rate, a rack looper/switcher is what you need to use.

you can only use the serial or parallel loop - not both. but, don't forget the channel inserts with the VH4. depending on what you are talking about and if you have something for specific channels, you can use the insert loop(s) with the serial and parallel loops.

Okay, it's either the Serial Loop or the Parallel Loop; got it. How does the rack looper beneficial if you use an Axe FX Ultra in the Parallel Loop of a VH4? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm out of the loop. I know...bad joke.

Thanks again for the insight, everybody.

If you are going to use the Ultra only in the loop, you don't need anything, except a midi controller. You were talking about using other FX in the earlier post.

 

[QueenCityGuitars]

at any rate, a rack looper/switcher is what you need to use.

you can only use the serial or parallel loop - not both. but, don't forget the channel inserts with the VH4. depending on what you are talking about and if you have something for specific channels, you can use the insert loop(s) with the serial and parallel loops.

Okay, it's either the Serial Loop or the Parallel Loop; got it. How does the rack looper beneficial if you use an Axe FX Ultra in the Parallel Loop of a VH4? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm out of the loop. I know...bad joke.

Thanks again for the insight, everybody.

If you are going to use the Ultra only in the loop, you don't need anything, except a midi controller. You were talking about using other FX in the earlier post.

Thanks, Steve! So, the rack looper would allow me to use the FX Ultra in the parallel and other effects (like pedals or other rack gear) in the serial loop or vice versa? Also, are the channel insert return and send loops considered parallel or serial loops, or are they something all together different?

 

[steve_k]

at any rate, a rack looper/switcher is what you need to use.

you can only use the serial or parallel loop - not both. but, don't forget the channel inserts with the VH4. depending on what you are talking about and if you have something for specific channels, you can use the insert loop(s) with the serial and parallel loops.

Okay, it's either the Serial Loop or the Parallel Loop; got it. How does the rack looper beneficial if you use an Axe FX Ultra in the Parallel Loop of a VH4? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm out of the loop. I know...bad joke.

Thanks again for the insight, everybody.

If you are going to use the Ultra only in the loop, you don't need anything, except a midi controller. You were talking about using other FX in the earlier post.

Thanks, Steve! So, the rack looper would allow me to use the FX Ultra in the parallel and other effects (like pedals or other rack gear) in the serial loop or vice versa? Also, are the channel insert return and send loops considered parallel or serial loops, or are they something all together different?

the channel loops are for dedicated FX for a single channel. so, you can use an effect across more than one channel loop. they are insert loops. if you had the favorite vintage OD or chorus pedal that you like only on the clean channel, you could rack them up and use them on channel 1, put your Axe on the parallel loop and use it for all channels. you can put a rack tuner in an insert loop too. all this is midi programmable at the amp, so its a breeze to set up. the VH4 functionality is like the german equivalent of the swiss army knife when it comes to bling.

 

[Reiep]

But what I think I hear you saying is: The Serial Loop sucks less tone because the Parallel Loop does an analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion. The problem is, the VH4 doesn't allow you to switch the Serial Loop on and off like you can the Parallel Loop. Do I have that right?

Well... no

Serial or parallel loops in itself don't suck tone (or shouldn't at least, and I take in consideration the cable length etc) and don't convert nothing, it depends what effets are in the loops :
- analog effets or digital effects with analog dry thru : no tone suck, whatever the loop.
- digital effects that force an A/D/A conversion : risks of tone suck because in a serial loop as 100% of the signal will suffer a digital conversion -> that's why it's recommended to put them in a parallel loop, if possible.

Usually the effects that go well in a parallel loop are delays and reverbs, they are the last ones on your chain. So you'd want to have your serial loop before your parallel loop. I understood from the VH4's manual (I don't have one) that the first loop is not switchable (which would be the serial in your setup), but the second is. Depending of your effects, it might be an issue.

However, as Steve said, the inserts of each channel are switchable, so if you need like a flanger only on your ch. 3 crunch and a chorus only for your clean, put them in those inserts, and you've saved some headaches

It would be useful to know what kinds of effects you plan to use. This is what I would do myself :
- using only the Axe FX for all my effects : in the switchable loop as a serial loop, so that you can put it out of the chain when not needed
- using the Axe FX for delays/reverbs + common pedals for the rest : midi switcher (like Steve's) in the serial loop, Axe FX in the parallel loop
- using the Axe FX for delays/reverbs + dedicated pedals for some channels : Axe FX in the parallel loop, dedicated pedals in the inserts
- using the Axe FX for delays/reverbs + dedicated pedals for some channels + common pedals : midi switcher (like Steve's) in the serial loop for the common pedals, Axe FX in the parallel loop, dedicated pedals in the inserts

As Steve said, the VH4 offers a lot of possibilities, maybe for the beginning you can stick to the easiest way with the Axe FX (or any good multi FX) in the serial loop.