DIfferences between an '04 VH-4 and a "newer" model?

Mizati20

Mizati20

Active member
I know that this question has been drilled into the ground, and I used the search function extensively before posting this, but everything I found was comparing VH-4's older than the one I just picked up to the current model...

I owned an '07 VH-4 in the past, and loved it... how much difference can I expect between that and the '04 that will be arriving next week?

Might I add they both have 6550's in them, the only different is the '07 has Winged =C= brand tubes and the '04 has Ruby's... thanks so much guys!!!
 
From what i've read several times around here, no major changes.. cleans and channel 3 remains the same, and channel 2 has got a bit more gain.

Anyway, here it goes an old thread where the same thing was discussed:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50238

VH4 rocks on every version!! :rock:
 
2007+

Ch. 1- Much more Dynamic Clean
Ch. 2- Much more gain and Treble. More like a beefy JCM-800
Ch. 3- Way more gain on the dial than 1999-2006. Same gain at 11:30 as the old ones at 4:00
Ch. 4- About the same. Fluid compressed bliss.

The 07'+s are a different amp. You will need to re-learn how to dial it in. If you try your 07 settings on the 04,
it won't work. The 07+ amps are brighter, or have a different treble signature and may seem less dark than the 04.
The Presence and Deep circuits are the same. I had an 03 for a few months and it had more gain on Channel 2 than my
2000, so I'm sure Peter tweaked the amp a bit as it progressed. I think in 03 or 04 Peter also changed the Deep circuit adding an
inductor to give it a different style of wallop than the earlier ones.

My take. Better, to some. Different, yes. Signature Diezel sound, Yes. Enough difference to own both ? 100%, unless you have a Herbert or Einstein.
They are both awesome in their own way.

You may want to go with EL34 in the 04. It helps bring out some treble frequencies that the 6550 may compress too much.
I run SED 6550 in the 07 and it's a perfect match, but I always ran SED/NOS Svetlana EL34 in the 2000. A KT77 would be nice as well.
 
Mark are you serious about the channel 3 thing? My '04 will need the gain to be completely maxed for it to sound the way my '07 did with it just on 11:30? That sounds completely ridiculous to me. When I gigged live with my '07 I had the gain on channel 3 at about 1:30 or so, so your basically telling me I won't
be able to achieve that with the '04 I just bought? That's a pretty big dissapointment to be honest...

Can anyone else chime in on this? I'd really like to hear from ANY VH-4 owners who's amp is PRE 2007, do you guys have any problems with not enough gain on tap? Everything else I can deal with, but channel 3 is the main reason I'm getting the amp, and I have one person telling me they aren't really any different, then another telling me it basically has less then half the amount of gain...

Thanks for the replies so far guys... Would love to here from
some other people tho...
 
I haven't tried out a newer VH4, but mine has a ton of gain on Channel 3, and MUCH more on channel 4.
I'd say that Channel 3 has about as much gain as a Dual Rec, and Channel 4 is in the same league as a 5150.

IMO, Channel 3 has a good amount of gain and channel 4 has WAY more than is really usable.

I'd think that you'll be fine.
 
Sorry Broheem, I'm not lyin'. I've had four different VH4's. 1999, 2000, 2003 and a late 2007.
As I mentioned, I made the mistake of setting up channel 3 like the previous amps and I was way off. :D
Peter can help you get more gain out of three if it's not enough for you.
 
Mizati20":2jnrjliw said:
Mark are you serious about the channel 3 thing? My '04 will need the gain to be completely maxed for it to sound the way my '07 did with it just on 11:30? That sounds completely ridiculous to me. When I gigged live with my '07 I had the gain on channel 3 at about 1:30 or so, so your basically telling me I won't
be able to achieve that with the '04 I just bought? That's a pretty big dissapointment to be honest...

Can anyone else chime in on this? I'd really like to hear from ANY VH-4 owners who's amp is PRE 2007, do you guys have any problems with not enough gain on tap? Everything else I can deal with, but channel 3 is the main reason I'm getting the amp, and I have one person telling me they aren't really any different, then another telling me it basically has less then half the amount of gain...

Thanks for the replies so far guys... Would love to here from
some other people tho...
Click to expand...
Will it really matter in 3 weeks when you decide you want to move back up to the Herbert? :lol: :LOL:
 
RJF":2hzpqdhb said:
Mizati20":2hzpqdhb said:
Mark are you serious about the channel 3 thing? My '04 will need the gain to be completely maxed for it to sound the way my '07 did with it just on 11:30? That sounds completely ridiculous to me. When I gigged live with my '07 I had the gain on channel 3 at about 1:30 or so, so your basically telling me I won't
be able to achieve that with the '04 I just bought? That's a pretty big dissapointment to be honest...

Can anyone else chime in on this? I'd really like to hear from ANY VH-4 owners who's amp is PRE 2007, do you guys have any problems with not enough gain on tap? Everything else I can deal with, but channel 3 is the main reason I'm getting the amp, and I have one person telling me they aren't really any different, then another telling me it basically has less then half the amount of gain...

Thanks for the replies so far guys... Would love to here from
some other people tho...
Click to expand...
Will it really matter in 3 weeks when you decide you want to move back up to the Herbert? :lol: :LOL:
Click to expand...

I still have the Herbert this time :rock: :rock:
 
That gain setting statement is ridiculous. I own an '05 VH4 and I've played newer ones as well. There is NO WAY in hell you need to run channel 3's gain on an older one maxed out to get the same sound as a newer one at 11:30.

Hell, I usually run the gain on mine no higher than 1:30 or 2:00 and it's already pretty crazy.

And Peter said the only difference was in the negative feedback loop. He's either not saying what the other changes are or there's some placebo effect going on...

And Mizati, I see you've been checking out YouTube for Diezel vids. Like I said, mine's a 2005 model.
 
MARK2C":2tztyrxs said:
2007+

Ch. 1- Much more Dynamic Clean
Ch. 2- Much more gain and Treble. More like a beefy JCM-800
Ch. 3- Way more gain on the dial than 1999-2006. Same gain at 11:30 as the old ones at 4:00
Ch. 4- About the same. Fluid compressed bliss.

The 07'+s are a different amp. You will need to re-learn how to dial it in. If you try your 07 settings on the 04,
it won't work. The 07+ amps are brighter, or have a different treble signature and may seem less dark than the 04.
The Presence and Deep circuits are the same. I had an 03 for a few months and it had more gain on Channel 2 than my
2000, so I'm sure Peter tweaked the amp a bit as it progressed. I think in 03 or 04 Peter also changed the Deep circuit adding an
inductor to give it a different style of wallop than the earlier ones.

My take. Better, to some. Different, yes. Signature Diezel sound, Yes. Enough difference to own both ? 100%, unless you have a Herbert or Einstein.
They are both awesome in their own way.

You may want to go with EL34 in the 04. It helps bring out some treble frequencies that the 6550 may compress too much.
I run SED 6550 in the 07 and it's a perfect match, but I always ran SED/NOS Svetlana EL34 in the 2000. A KT77 would be nice as well.
Click to expand...


I agree 100% with this
 
FourT6and2":2myfxtge said:
That gain setting statement is ridiculous. I own an '05 VH4 and I've played newer ones as well. There is NO WAY in hell you need to run channel 3's gain on an older one maxed out to get the same sound as a newer one at 11:30.

Hell, I usually run the gain on mine no higher than 1:30 or 2:00 and it's already pretty crazy.

And Peter said the only difference was in the negative feedback loop. He's either not saying what the other changes are or there's some placebo effect going on...

And Mizati, I see you've been checking out YouTube for Diezel vids. Like I said, mine's a 2005 model.
Click to expand...

Really !!! Since this is not related to pre 2004's maybe the 05 has a bit more gain. So depending on your definition of gain
and style of music there IS A WAY you would need to run the gain way up. The 03 had a bit more gain on 2 and maybe a touch on 3, but
you still had to go full up to get it to chug. The feedback loop from 99-03 was generally the same. The early ones had Tantalum or or polyester
caps in the Presence circuit and the newer ones are electrolytic. The deep circuit from 94 to 03 did not have the inductor based Deep control unless
it was upgraded by Peter. At some time in 05 the voicing was somewhat changed. If you look, a lot of coupling caps were changed from .01uf to .022uf
including the phase inverter. The bypass cap on the PI plate load resistor was also changed. The negative feedback loop in 05-07 went to a 100K in series with a 22K
resistor bypassed by a .047uf cap. So the feedback loop change started in 05, but were talking about an 04 here. The coupling circuits for the 07 were slightly altered.
All you need to do is look at them. Lastly, the treble tone stack caps from the 99-03 were Wima polypropylene. In 07 they are dipped ceramic disk, like the Herbert.
So not only do my ears tell me they are different, my eyes do as well. From the research I have done the 1994-2006 VH4 and VH4S are referred to as the "Classic" VH4.
Anything post 2006 is Peter Diezel's business and I'm not getting in Papa's doghouse. From a technical standpoint I don't care what he did post 06, but from a players
view I love it.


http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/upload ... ttings.pdf

The settings for Ch. 3 and 4 will not work very well on an 07+ VH4. Try it for yourself !!!!
 
Really !!! Since this is not related to pre 2004's maybe the 05 has a bit more gain. So depending on your definition of gain
and style of music there IS A WAY you would need to run the gain way up. The 03 had a bit more gain on 2 and maybe a touch on 3, but
you still had to go full up to get it to chug. The feedback loop from 99-03 was generally the same. The early ones had Tantalum or or polyester
caps in the Presence circuit and the newer ones are electrolytic. The deep circuit from 94 to 03 did not have the inductor based Deep control unless
it was upgraded by Peter. At some time in 05 the voicing was somewhat changed. If you look, a lot of coupling caps were changed from .01uf to .022uf
including the phase inverter. The bypass cap on the PI plate load resistor was also changed. The negative feedback loop in 05-07 went to a 100K in series with a 22K
resistor bypassed by a .047uf cap. So the feedback loop change started in 05, but were talking about an 04 here. The coupling circuits for the 07 were slightly altered.
All you need to do is look at them. Lastly, the treble tone stack caps from the 99-03 were Wima polypropylene. In 07 they are dipped ceramic disk, like the Herbert.
So not only do my ears tell me they are different, my eyes do as well. From the research I have done the 1994-2006 VH4 and VH4S are referred to as the "Classic" VH4.
Anything post 2006 is Peter Diezel's business and I'm not getting in Papa's doghouse. From a technical standpoint I don't care what he did post 06, but from a players
view I love it.


http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/upload ... ttings.pdf

The settings for Ch. 3 and 4 will not work very well on an 07+ VH4. Try it for yourself !!!![/quote]


...someone has done their research. well done! :thumbsup:
 
PaulyPanacea":3c7kbb1p said:
Really !!! Since this is not related to pre 2004's maybe the 05 has a bit more gain. So depending on your definition of gain
and style of music there IS A WAY you would need to run the gain way up. The 03 had a bit more gain on 2 and maybe a touch on 3, but
you still had to go full up to get it to chug. The feedback loop from 99-03 was generally the same. The early ones had Tantalum or or polyester
caps in the Presence circuit and the newer ones are electrolytic. The deep circuit from 94 to 03 did not have the inductor based Deep control unless
it was upgraded by Peter. At some time in 05 the voicing was somewhat changed. If you look, a lot of coupling caps were changed from .01uf to .022uf
including the phase inverter. The bypass cap on the PI plate load resistor was also changed. The negative feedback loop in 05-07 went to a 100K in series with a 22K
resistor bypassed by a .047uf cap. So the feedback loop change started in 05, but were talking about an 04 here. The coupling circuits for the 07 were slightly altered.
All you need to do is look at them. Lastly, the treble tone stack caps from the 99-03 were Wima polypropylene. In 07 they are dipped ceramic disk, like the Herbert.
So not only do my ears tell me they are different, my eyes do as well. From the research I have done the 1994-2006 VH4 and VH4S are referred to as the "Classic" VH4.
Anything post 2006 is Peter Diezel's business and I'm not getting in Papa's doghouse. From a technical standpoint I don't care what he did post 06, but from a players
view I love it.


http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/upload ... ttings.pdf

The settings for Ch. 3 and 4 will not work very well on an 07+ VH4. Try it for yourself !!!!
Click to expand...


..someone has done their research. well done! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Hey Paul. I'm on it like a fat kid on a peanut butter, banana and bacon sandwich... ;)
 
With all due respect to Peter, I'm not commenting any further on this subject. I gave my best, honest interpretation
on the differences and it's time to move on. If you want the old tone buy and old one. If you want the new tone, but the new one.
Don't pester Peter about upgrades !!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsdown:
 
MARK2C":30u58xxe said:
2007+

Ch. 1- Much more Dynamic Clean
Ch. 2- Much more gain and Treble. More like a beefy JCM-800
Ch. 3- Way more gain on the dial than 1999-2006. Same gain at 11:30 as the old ones at 4:00
Ch. 4- About the same. Fluid compressed bliss.

The 07'+s are a different amp. You will need to re-learn how to dial it in. If you try your 07 settings on the 04,
it won't work. The 07+ amps are brighter, or have a different treble signature and may seem less dark than the 04.
The Presence and Deep circuits are the same. I had an 03 for a few months and it had more gain on Channel 2 than my
2000, so I'm sure Peter tweaked the amp a bit as it progressed. I think in 03 or 04 Peter also changed the Deep circuit adding an
inductor to give it a different style of wallop than the earlier ones.

My take. Better, to some. Different, yes. Signature Diezel sound, Yes. Enough difference to own both ? 100%, unless you have a Herbert or Einstein.
They are both awesome in their own way.

You may want to go with EL34 in the 04. It helps bring out some treble frequencies that the 6550 may compress too much.
I run SED 6550 in the 07 and it's a perfect match, but I always ran SED/NOS Svetlana EL34 in the 2000. A KT77 would be nice as well.
Click to expand...

+2

I agree.

Especially the added gain in channel 3. That for me was the most immediate and noticeable difference.

Kit, You'll probably end up trading for a newer 2007+ model VH4 ;).
 
MARK2C":1u5iefq7 said:
FourT6and2":1u5iefq7 said:
That gain setting statement is ridiculous. I own an '05 VH4 and I've played newer ones as well. There is NO WAY in hell you need to run channel 3's gain on an older one maxed out to get the same sound as a newer one at 11:30.

Hell, I usually run the gain on mine no higher than 1:30 or 2:00 and it's already pretty crazy.

And Peter said the only difference was in the negative feedback loop. He's either not saying what the other changes are or there's some placebo effect going on...

And Mizati, I see you've been checking out YouTube for Diezel vids. Like I said, mine's a 2005 model.
Click to expand...

Really !!! Since this is not related to pre 2004's maybe the 05 has a bit more gain. So depending on your definition of gain
and style of music there IS A WAY you would need to run the gain way up. The 03 had a bit more gain on 2 and maybe a touch on 3, but
you still had to go full up to get it to chug. The feedback loop from 99-03 was generally the same. The early ones had Tantalum or or polyester
caps in the Presence circuit and the newer ones are electrolytic. The deep circuit from 94 to 03 did not have the inductor based Deep control unless
it was upgraded by Peter. At some time in 05 the voicing was somewhat changed. If you look, a lot of coupling caps were changed from .01uf to .022uf
including the phase inverter. The bypass cap on the PI plate load resistor was also changed. The negative feedback loop in 05-07 went to a 100K in series with a 22K
resistor bypassed by a .047uf cap. So the feedback loop change started in 05, but were talking about an 04 here. The coupling circuits for the 07 were slightly altered.
All you need to do is look at them. Lastly, the treble tone stack caps from the 99-03 were Wima polypropylene. In 07 they are dipped ceramic disk, like the Herbert.
So not only do my ears tell me they are different, my eyes do as well. From the research I have done the 1994-2006 VH4 and VH4S are referred to as the "Classic" VH4.
Anything post 2006 is Peter Diezel's business and I'm not getting in Papa's doghouse. From a technical standpoint I don't care what he did post 06, but from a players
view I love it.


http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/upload ... ttings.pdf

The settings for Ch. 3 and 4 will not work very well on an 07+ VH4. Try it for yourself !!!!
Click to expand...

Is their a PDF out for the Herbert like the VH4 settings?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top