DIfferences between an '04 VH-4 and a "newer" model?

[sc13nc3]

Yup!

Awesome man!! Thanks

Such great info from a community and manufacture!! Glad I bought this amp!

 

[RG955TT]

Which one has more "classic" tones, old or newer? In other words, which would one would be more usable in an all around context for a rock/hard rock player who does not play much Metal? Most of what I'm looking for is great versatility in more "classic" tones plus the oaccational over the top stuff gain wise. I think I tend to like darker amps and hate that recto fizz thing. Thanks

 

[MARK2C]

The newer VH4 can closely clone the older models by turning down the treble, presence and in some instances the gain.
The only channel which this will not do is 1.

 

[LightsOfSorrow86]

Really !!! Since this is not related to pre 2004's maybe the 05 has a bit more gain. So depending on your definition of gain
and style of music there IS A WAY you would need to run the gain way up. The 03 had a bit more gain on 2 and maybe a touch on 3, but
you still had to go full up to get it to chug. The feedback loop from 99-03 was generally the same. The early ones had Tantalum or or polyester
caps in the Presence circuit and the newer ones are electrolytic. The deep circuit from 94 to 03 did not have the inductor based Deep control unless
it was upgraded by Peter. At some time in 05 the voicing was somewhat changed. If you look, a lot of coupling caps were changed from .01uf to .022uf
including the phase inverter. The bypass cap on the PI plate load resistor was also changed. The negative feedback loop in 05-07 went to a 100K in series with a 22K
resistor bypassed by a .047uf cap. So the feedback loop change started in 05, but were talking about an 04 here. The coupling circuits for the 07 were slightly altered.
All you need to do is look at them. Lastly, the treble tone stack caps from the 99-03 were Wima polypropylene. In 07 they are dipped ceramic disk, like the Herbert.
So not only do my ears tell me they are different, my eyes do as well. From the research I have done the 1994-2006 VH4 and VH4S are referred to as the "Classic" VH4.
Anything post 2006 is Peter Diezel's business and I'm not getting in Papa's doghouse. From a technical standpoint I don't care what he did post 06, but from a players
view I love it.


http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/upload ... ttings.pdf

The settings for Ch. 3 and 4 will not work very well on an 07+ VH4. Try it for yourself !!!!

The OG blueface had a simple resistor connected to the negative feedback wire, and I suspect the feedback wire was also connected to the 4 ohm, but there were a 22K resistor in the preamp that made the amp more compressed and wth less treble but they had enough presence in the dial. The early 2000s, I've seen a 2002 and a 2003, never seen a 2000 or a 2001. The negative feedback had the wire connected to the 4 ohm tap and a 100nF cap in parallel with a 22.3k resistor and a 39.2k resistor in the preamp. This one was changed for a 68k and what you mentioned before, a 0.47 with the 22k and 100k resistors. Mine has a 330k resistor as stated in the manual after 2016, a 100pF cap in parallel with a 22k resistor and a 100nF cap with a 68k resistor together, it's an additional filter. I've seen a guy moving the NF wire from the 8 ohm to the 4 ohm tap, but the picture I've seen, shows the wire con the 2X16 ouput, I don't know if this makes a difference, but I tried to move mine too and the amp has a completely different feeling. I love both ways. On the 4 ohm is less compressed, brighter, mids are not honky as before, scooped, not fast as before and it's like the deep, presence and treble have a wider range. But you lose a smidge of bass and omph. Now the NF wire is on the 8 ohm tap, so I believe they balanced the sound this way, 8 ohm, darker sound, more compressed but with a 330k resistor which make the amp less compressed and brighter. Anyway it's a fucking masterpiece of an amp.

 

[angelspade]

The OG blueface had a simple resistor connected to the negative feedback wire, and I suspect the feedback wire was also connected to the 4 ohm, but there were a 39K resistor in the preamp that made the amp more compressed and wth less presence. The early 2000s, I've seen a 2002 and a 2003, never seen a 2000 or a 2001. The negative feedback had the wire connected to the 4 ohm tap and a 100pF cap in parallel with a 22.3k resistor and a 39.2k resistor in the preamp. This one was changed for a 68k and what you mentioned before, a 0.47 with the 22k and 100k resistors. Mine has a 330k resistor as stated in the manual after 2016, a 100pF can in parallel with a 22k resistor and a 100nF cap with a 100k resistor together, it's an additional filter. I've seen a guy moving the NF wire from the 8 ohm to the 4 ohm tap, but the picture I've seen, shows the wire con the 2X16 ouput, I don't know if this makes a difference, but I tried to move mine too and the amp has a completely different feeling. I love both ways. On the 4 ohm is less compressed, brighter, mids are not honky as before, scooped, not fast as before and it's like the deep, presence and treble have a wider range. But you lose a smidge of bass and omph. Now the NF wire is on the 8 ohm tap, so I believe they balanced the sound this way, 8 ohm, darker sound, more compressed but with a 330k resistor which make the amp less compressed and brighter. Anyway it's a fucking masterpiece of an amp.

This is very insightful information, thank you. Can you recommend a mod that would add a bit more "sizzle" to the high-top end...More in line with the Hagen demonstrates...Or what we commonly associate with say a 5150? Thank You!

 

[LightsOfSorrow86]

This is very insightful information, thank you. Can you recommend a mod that would add a bit more "sizzle" to the high-top end...More in line with the Hagen demonstrates...Or what we commonly associate with say a 5150? Thank You!

Unfortunately I'm not a tech, I have few pictures of friend's VH4s of different years and dissected my vh4 following all the traces, trying to understand with a friend of mine, what specific components do. Tell me which year is your VH4, if it's post 2007, you'll be good simply changing the presence cap, widening its range. Your best friend is Peter, only him can suggest you what to do. he sggested me to change my presence cap from the 1uF I have to a 0.22uF, paying attention to the polarity.

 

[angelspade]

Unfortunately I'm not a tech, I have few pictures of friend's VH4s of different years and dissected my vh4 following all the traces, trying to understand with a friend of mine, what specific components do. Tell me which year is your VH4, if it's post 2007, you'll be good simply changing the presence cap, widening its range.

Thank You. I have a very recent model VH4, I believe it's a 2022. Perhaps I should ask Diezel what presence value cap is used on the Hagen?

 

[LightsOfSorrow86]

Thank You. I have a very recent model VH4, I believe it's a 2022. Perhaps I should ask Diezel what presence value cap is used on the Hagen?

If you want that sharp attack yes, simply ask how to achieve a similar result with your vh4. Simply send him the serial number and he'll tell you what to do. I've never ever talked with a more helpful and passionate person as Peter. Never.

 

[angelspade]

If you want that sharp attack yes, simply ask how to achieve a similar result with your vh4. Simply send him the serial number and he'll tell you what to do. I've never ever talked with a more helpful and passionate person as Peter. Never.

Thanks brother, appreciated.

 

[LightsOfSorrow86]

Thanks brother, appreciated.

My pleasure man.

 

[Higgs]

@ LightsOfSorrow86

Yeah, it's pretty wild how many variations that are out there of this amp. Just for one individual component (the 330k compression resistor in your amp - or "fizz" resistor as others have called it) I've seen examples with 22k, a bunch of 39k, discussion about 47k (but no pics for proof), 56k, 68k (1 actual + service manual), 100k, 330k (also service manual), 475k, and N/A (resistor and/or series capacitor completely removed).

Same goes for the NFB variations that you described above. There are a ton of different versions of that, as well.

 

[LightsOfSorrow86]

@ LightsOfSorrow86

Yeah, it's pretty wild how many variations that are out there of this amp. Just for one individual component (the 330k compression resistor in your amp - or "fizz" resistor as others have called it) I've seen examples with 22k, a bunch of 39k, discussion about 47k (but no pics for proof), 56k, 68k (1 actual + service manual), 100k, 330k (also service manual), 475k, and N/A (resistor and/or series capacitor completely removed).

Same goes for the NFB variations that you described above. There are a ton of different versions of that, as well.

Yeah it's wild. The 69k is the one pictured in the manual and circled. I don't know what they are using now but Mark2C said on a reply, if I remember correctly, that the lower the value, more highs you have. In reality I asked Peter how would change my vh4 swapping the 330k to a 39k and he said "Less Treble and more compression". Older VH4s were darker in the preamp but more open in the poweramp. Than they started (and the manual is the proof) to make the preamp brighter adding bass in the power section, like the 0.1 cap on the white wire of the NFB mentioned in the Service manual. I've seen 2007s with tbat resistor removed and also a 2001 and a 2020 without the 0,01uF cap under that resistor.

 

[gabe9842]

@ LightsOfSorrow86

Yeah, it's pretty wild how many variations that are out there of this amp. Just for one individual component (the 330k compression resistor in your amp - or "fizz" resistor as others have called it) I've seen examples with 22k, a bunch of 39k, discussion about 47k (but no pics for proof), 56k, 68k (1 actual + service manual), 100k, 330k (also service manual), 475k, and N/A (resistor and/or series capacitor completely removed).

Same goes for the NFB variations that you described above. There are a ton of different versions of that, as well.

This one is the factory resistor from my 2006 VH4. 47k.